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Old 11-07-2020, 12:56 PM   #61
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"Imprisoned" due to COVID-19 precautions, I presume? Surely your friends and their parents don't want the disease racing through their facility.

Because the only other "imprisonment" I've heard of, is in the dementia ward, where people have to be locked down, lest they wander off. Sadly, they have become inmates, rather than residents. But their other choices would seem to be even worse.

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Up until COVID, my assumption was that I would move to a CCRC when the time came. There have been way too many stories from friends about parents being virtually imprisoned .
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Old 11-07-2020, 03:45 PM   #62
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I've read several times that the early 80s is the most typical age. Whether that's best for most people is a different question.
We also struggled with the same question of the best age to enter a CCRC.
As it turned out, we entered at 73/72 a bit before our earliest target of 75. DW really wanted to be closer to DD and DGKids (300 miles from our previous residence but only 60 miles now) and we agreed we were not keen on moving twice.
Besides finding a very attractive pricing option in a new facility, we also were sold by an article that pointed out an early move would be the best way to optimize the full benefit of all the services and value of living in a Type A CCRC. Our move also allowed us to convert "dead" capital in our fully paid off house to an active benefit from CCRC living.
We are not the youngest here but certainly in the youngest 20%. Because our property is fairly new, the entire population is probably 3-5 years younger on average than CCRCs which have been around over 10 years.
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Old 11-07-2020, 04:15 PM   #63
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My mother is in an independent living apartment in a CCRC. It has been great for her. At the beginning of the pandemic there was a 14 day quarantine for anyone who left the CCRC and went out of state or in the hospital. But now there are no restrictions on mother coming and going and she can have visitors in her apartment if she wants --but we have elected to visit mother outside. The common dining room is closed and meals are delivered to her apt. Indoor activities have been cancelled but they have been having outdoor activities such as walks, outside meetings, picnics, outside exercise, etc. Mother recently told me she was glad she is in the CCRC because she is able to see and talk to other residents every day. If mother still lived in her house by herself she would be very isolated and lonely.
There have been a few cases in the skilled nursing section of mother's CCRC but mother's apartment is in a separate building and so far no cases there.

We have our names on a local CCRC waiting list. We would like to move in about mid 70 (5 years from now). We don't want to wait too long because you need to be in good health to move in. For example, if you have cancer that disqualifies you for 5 years. You are also disqualified for any type of dementia diagnose and for Parkinson's.
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Old 11-07-2020, 05:52 PM   #64
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My dad needed 24/7 skilled nursing care beginning at age 94 in an HCOL area. He lived for 8 more months and died at home. My mom did a great job maintaining the home with help from me. Unfortunately, my mom developed dementia within a few months of dad's passing. It happened too soon to even have a discussion about moving out of the house. But she resisted any help at home until she fell and had a couple of fractures. At that point she was 95. She was able to return home after rehab but had to accept that she needed help. She has had 24/7 care at home (but hasn't needed more expensive skilled nursing---yet) for nearly 4 years. She's in her late 90s.

My dad had a generous COLA'd pension. They always LBYM'd and started amassing some significant savings as their expenses dropped as they got older, esp. past age 80. My dad told me over 30 years ago that they attended a presentation about long-term care insurance and decided against it due to the pension with partial survivor benefits.

Up until now, between dad's skilled nursing needs and my mom's ongoing home care needs, the bill has been about $700,000 and rising. I think their savings will outlast my mom, as she recently had another setback and I'm considering home hospice in the coming months. With covid-19, she is certainly safer at home than anywhere else, though not without risk due to the 24/7 care she needs.
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Old 11-07-2020, 05:59 PM   #65
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Dad is in assisted living. At the start of the outbreak, the facility was on lockdown meaning no family visits and the residents were restricted to their rooms 24 hours a day. Meals were brought to them. When the rules were relaxed to "phase 2" we could visit outside while maintaining social distancing guidelines. But, if a worker who has direct contact with the residents tests positive, they go back to phase 1 rules for two weeks and we can't visit Dad. At this time we do not know how or when we will be able to visit with our father once it becomes too cold to meet outdoors. I would not move into assisted living at this time unless it was necessary.
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Old 11-10-2020, 02:26 AM   #66
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Though neither parent reached 90, they both ended their lives in memory care units. Before that, they spent virtually NOTHING. Just food, utilities, HC insurance, etc. They just never bought anything.

Fortunately, they came out "even" on their money - I think there was a couple thousand left in the check book when mom died. Not enough for even one more month in the care facility. Can't complain as I never expected inheritance. BUT my parents experience is probably why DW and I both have LTC policies (mom had one but outlived it - also, it wasn't "enough" to cover her care, but it helped a lot.)

So, one of the black swans that concerns me is LTC. Yes, "average" is 3 years or whatever, but I've known of folks who lived 15 years in a facility. 3 years is no sweat, financially. 15 years, I'm not at all sure.

SO, I've found myself mentally doing back-of-the-envelope calculations about how long our stash might last should one or both of us end our days in a care home. Locally, $10k/ month wouldn't be out of the question - though we might simply move to a lower COL area if need be. Even with a decent stash, and the value of a condo, we don't get to 15 years for two of us - maybe not 10 years.

I know the odds are with us, but it's something I tend to think about from time to time - but YMMV.
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Old 11-12-2020, 12:05 PM   #67
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After thinking about this topic some more, I decided that my comments regarding my parent's spending and portfolio balance in their later years needed more clarification.

When they downsized out of their paid-for home and into a 3 BDRM apartment, I was surprised to learn that the ~$1000 per month rent did not require them to dip into their savings. In fact, while Mom was alive, they actually ran a ~$500 per month surplus because Mom had her own Soc Sec. But, as they reached their middle 90s, the apartment was starting to be the wrong place for them. It was not in anyway handicap accessible so when Dad's arthritis got bad enough that he needed a wheelchair to move about, living there became more difficult for them.

We started visiting assisted living facilities in the area (Mom went along) and what we found is that they were primarily focused on singles. The places that did have 2 BDRM units, which Mom insisted on, were expensive at around $6500 a month or more. At that time they had ~$250k in savings and $2500 in monthly income. My projections indicated that they would run out of money in 5 - 6 years. The sad fact is that when Mom died at 95, her death meant that their portfolio can support Dad for up to 10 years if he doesn't require additional care. Also, I think I can cover any gap down the road once Dad starts his veteran's pension.

In conclusion, my parents saved quite a lot for folks with their income level. But, it was not going to be enough (probably) if they had both lived to be 100 and it would've been a challenge for me to cover the gap for both of them. To some extent, I think this financial worry weighted on Mom towards the end.
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Old 11-12-2020, 04:34 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoiseBoy View Post
After thinking about this topic some more, I decided that my comments regarding my parent's spending and portfolio balance in their later years needed more clarification.

When they downsized out of their paid-for home and into a 3 BDRM apartment, I was surprised to learn that the ~$1000 per month rent did not require them to dip into their savings. In fact, while Mom was alive, they actually ran a ~$500 per month surplus because Mom had her own Soc Sec. But, as they reached their middle 90s, the apartment was starting to be the wrong place for them. It was not in anyway handicap accessible so when Dad's arthritis got bad enough that he needed a wheelchair to move about, living there became more difficult for them.

We started visiting assisted living facilities in the area (Mom went along) and what we found is that they were primarily focused on singles. The places that did have 2 BDRM units, which Mom insisted on, were expensive at around $6500 a month or more. At that time they had ~$250k in savings and $2500 in monthly income. My projections indicated that they would run out of money in 5 - 6 years. The sad fact is that when Mom died at 95, her death meant that their portfolio can support Dad for up to 10 years if he doesn't require additional care. Also, I think I can cover any gap down the road once Dad starts his veteran's pension.

In conclusion, my parents saved quite a lot for folks with their income level. But, it was not going to be enough (probably) if they had both lived to be 100 and it would've been a challenge for me to cover the gap for both of them. To some extent, I think this financial worry weighted on Mom towards the end.
Many elderly USA Veteran's benefits are unknowns too to many veterans.
Particularly -combat verified veteran's-
I'd suggest you advise your father to see his towns vet's rep. if possible.
In many instances, depending on terms they're provided a living pension.
-Please, do this-
Good luck & best wishes.....
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:25 AM   #69
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Many elderly USA Veteran's benefits are unknowns too to many veterans.
Particularly -combat verified veteran's-
I'd suggest you advise your father to see his towns vet's rep. if possible.
In many instances, depending on terms they're provided a living pension.
-Please, do this-
Good luck & best wishes.....
I have been to see the local resource officer on my father's behalf. Dad is a WWII Navy veteran, I have copies of his honorable discharge form. On July 4th, 1946 no less! That was a big independence day for him. But, it's my understanding that he cannot start his veteran's pension until his net worth drops below $80,000. That is what I've read online and the resource officer confirm it. But thank you for your comment.
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