90 plus lifestyle & spending

[PatrickA5]

Dad lived to 97 and was at home (alone) until 10 days before his death. He spent next to nothing from age 80 - 97 and easily got by on his SS. He got lucky. The last few years were really hard on him physically but he was determined to avoid the nursing home. I often felt he would have a much more fulfilling life had he spent some time with other people in assisted living than sitting at home alone those last few years.

I doubt I make it anywhere near his age, but I don't think I will be as stubborn as he was about getting help. I finally got him to use a housekeeper once a month and he would "hide" from her when she came to the door. We went through several agencies because he wouldn't let them in or would always cancel. He didn't want to spend the money and didn't "need any help".

 

[O2Bfree]

My mom is 91 and we just moved her to a place where she pays $3,900 for a one bedroom apt with two meals a day and light housekeeping. Utilities and cable are included, plus she gets a medical alert pendant and there are a couple alert buttons in her apartment as well. The place has a gym, craft room, theater, and several open areas with nice furniture, books, and TVs. They also offer free transportation within a 10-mile radius. She gave up driving last year, and loosing that independence has been hard for her, but so far she hasn't wanted to use the free transportation. She still gets around pretty well on foot without a walker, though she should probably use one outside at least.

Mom could have stayed in her previous apartment a while longer if she'd have allowed people to help her more. I take her out for all errands and appointments, but she always declined help with housekeeping and bathing. She was also needing help when DH and I were out of town, someone to check on her, take her grocery shopping, and maybe take her out for a meal now and then. But she wouldn't let me bring in hired help. That was becoming a sore point between her and me, that I no longer felt comfortable leaving town and leaving her alone. She'd been having more frequent little emergencies, and I could see me getting a panicky phone call when DH and I were three states or three countries away. I hated trying to talk to her about it because she'd always get so emotional and accuse me of treating her like a 3-year old. But finally she conceded and decided to move into the assisted living place. I know she doesn't like spending so much more for rent, but she can afford it and the peace of mind is worth it for DH and me.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My aunt is 95 and has someone grocery shop, clean and do her laundry. She eats lean cuisines and her daughter brings her some meals. She started paying for help 5 years ago. My mom took care of herself until a week before she died of cancer at almost 90. I intend to follow their lead. Actually I doubt that I will make it to 90.

 

[meridiver]

FIL moved into a small Board and Care facility (no memory care) 7 yrs ago at age 83 when he developed Alzheimers. SIL lives a couple of blocks away and pre-Covid would do activities with him at least 4+ days/wk. I believe the cost at the time he moved in was $4,500/mo for his own bedroom and all meals/care, not sure what the cost is now. There is no nursing care on-site though. He pays for it out of his investment portfolio and social security, is physically still very healthy, and could easily live at least 5-10 more years. This is in Orange County, CA, a HCOL area.

From what I've seen, as long as someone is around to supervise closely, small board and cares can be an excellent and cost effective option. FIL is an introvert and had absolutely no desire to spend his final years in a larger facility with more residents.

 

[Hermit]

My stepmom (93) is in a high end independent & assisted living facility. She splurged on a one bedroom (vs studio) with an ocean and bay view. Those two splurges added $1500/mo to rent - which is $8500/mo. She does not have a meal plan - which is no longer allowed for new residents... but she was grandfathered in. We had an outdoor visit with her last week - she's still going strong but misses playing bridge. (They make residents maintain lolsocial distance - which doesn't work for bridge.) Her youngest daughter brings her groceries 1x/week. My sister's former MIL lived at the same facility with a studio and no view for a lot less.

My MIL is in memory care. She was in a fairly fancy place outside Philadelphia and it was $7k/month... Unfortunately, the care was meh.... For a variety of reasons we moved her to suburban Detroit, near a different family member. Care is much better and it's only $4k/month. Mentally she's gone, but physically she's still fairly healthy - she turns 94 in a few days. BIL has 'window visits' with her several times a week.

We're budgeting for something similar to my stepmom...

Up until COVID, my assumption was that I would move to a CCRC when the time came. There have been way too many stories from friends about parents being virtually imprisoned and I have changed my mind. I will stay at home and if need be pay for any assistance needed. I can afford it although it may mean less of an inheritance for the kids.

 

[youbet]

Up until COVID, my assumption was that I would move to a CCRC when the time came. There have been way too many stories from friends about parents being virtually imprisoned and I have changed my mind. I will stay at home and if need be pay for any assistance needed. I can afford it although it may mean less of an inheritance for the kids.

I wonder if you could expand on the "virtually imprisoned" portion of your post.

DW and I have been investigating several local plan A CCRC's over the past couple of years including visits, interviewing current residents, studying the available literature, etc. We've generally liked what we've seen. The biggest issue for us has been trying to pick the sweet spot between going in too young and waiting until you no longer qualify due to health issues.

We have observed that COVID-19 brought on some negative, and hopefully temporary, changes. Events for prospective clients were moved online. Current residents had meals delivered to their apartments instead of going to one of the dining rooms or snack shops. The workout area and pool were closed. Guest visits were limited.


Generally, it hasn't looked much worse than self-isolating at home and they've been successful in not having a major virus outbreak. But, your comment troubled me. What are you hearing?

 

[braumeister]

The biggest issue for us has been trying to pick the sweet spot between going in too young and waiting until you no longer qualify due to health issues.

I've read several times that the early 80s is the most typical age. Whether that's best for most people is a different question.

 

[youbet]

I've read several times that the early 80s is the most typical age. Whether that's best for most people is a different question.

Well, certainly it seems like that would be old enough to not feel like "the kid" in the group and be comfortable with the other folks you meet there, etc. When we visit the place we're most interested in, we are obviously younger than the majority of folks we see and interact with.

The catch is that to qualify for a type A contract, you need to be totally independent and have no medical history indicating you're a likely NH candidate in the short run. And, for some personal reasons, we're interested in a type A contract even though we can self-insure.

 

[nwsteve]

I wonder if you could expand on the "virtually imprisoned" portion of your post.

DW and I have been investigating several local plan A CCRC's over the past couple of years including visits, interviewing current residents, studying the available literature, etc. We've generally liked what we've seen. The biggest issue for us has been trying to pick the sweet spot between going in too young and waiting until you no longer qualify due to health issues.

We have observed that COVID-19 brought on some negative, and hopefully temporary, changes. Events for prospective clients were moved online. Current residents had meals delivered to their apartments instead of going to one of the dining rooms or snack shops. The workout area and pool were closed. Guest visits were limited.
Generally, it hasn't looked much worse than self-isolating at home and they've been successful in not having a major virus outbreak. But, your comment troubled me. What are you hearing?

We are current Independent Living residents of at a 3 year old Type A CCRC in W. Wash. While there are a lot more rules related to masking and social distancing, we certainly are not imprisoned. Last Spring when Covid first struck, we did have strict 2 week quarantine in your apt. if you traveled out of state or were in an airport. The dining rooms and common areas including gym were closed. We were provided grocery shopping at no cost if desired and meal delivery to the our apt. Dining is still limited to take out.
Due to state regs, the folks in our Assist Living/Skilled Nursing apts. have had more restrictions. Even our residents with spouses in Assist Living have had their visitations tightly regulated and limited to "window visits".
Our professional staff has been very diligent about limiting non-residents coming onsite especially at the outset. All our CCRC staff have their temps taken every day when coming to work and now have regular Covid screening. As a result, we have NO Covid infections by any resident. We did have a part time kitchen employee test positive but there was no subsequent spread to any of the staff.
Clearly, the Assist Living/Skill Nursing residents have felt the most inconvenience but they are also safe and healthy and have access to a host of resources for everything from computer assistance for connecting to family to full shopping assistance A lot of folks have become more Internet literate and Zoom skilled.

 

[Hermit]

I wonder if you could expand on the "virtually imprisoned" portion of your post.

DW and I have been investigating several local plan A CCRC's over the past couple of years including visits, interviewing current residents, studying the available literature, etc. We've generally liked what we've seen. The biggest issue for us has been trying to pick the sweet spot between going in too young and waiting until you no longer qualify due to health issues.

We have observed that COVID-19 brought on some negative, and hopefully temporary, changes. Events for prospective clients were moved online. Current residents had meals delivered to their apartments instead of going to one of the dining rooms or snack shops. The workout area and pool were closed. Guest visits were limited.


Generally, it hasn't looked much worse than self-isolating at home and they've been successful in not having a major virus outbreak. But, your comment troubled me. What are you hearing?

A neighbor and his wife want to travel to Wisconsin to see his parents. The CCRC where the parents live will not allow them to visit. That is a choice I do not wish to abdicate to an organization that has its own best interests in mind. The children are in their 70s and do not want to try driving during the middle of the winter. That puts a visit off until next spring or summer. They haven't seen the parents for quite a while. I hope 6 or 8 months from now is not too late.

Please keep in mind that this is a very personal view from one who is more than happy to have my kids come up and stay as they wish. Isolation is a product of where I live so contacts outside the very small local community and family are very limited for me.

 

[Amethyst]

"Imprisoned" due to COVID-19 precautions, I presume? Surely your friends and their parents don't want the disease racing through their facility.

Because the only other "imprisonment" I've heard of, is in the dementia ward, where people have to be locked down, lest they wander off. Sadly, they have become inmates, rather than residents. But their other choices would seem to be even worse.

Up until COVID, my assumption was that I would move to a CCRC when the time came. There have been way too many stories from friends about parents being virtually imprisoned .

 

[nwsteve]

I've read several times that the early 80s is the most typical age. Whether that's best for most people is a different question.

We also struggled with the same question of the best age to enter a CCRC.
As it turned out, we entered at 73/72 a bit before our earliest target of 75. DW really wanted to be closer to DD and DGKids (300 miles from our previous residence but only 60 miles now) and we agreed we were not keen on moving twice.
Besides finding a very attractive pricing option in a new facility, we also were sold by an article that pointed out an early move would be the best way to optimize the full benefit of all the services and value of living in a Type A CCRC. Our move also allowed us to convert "dead" capital in our fully paid off house to an active benefit from CCRC living.
We are not the youngest here but certainly in the youngest 20%. Because our property is fairly new, the entire population is probably 3-5 years younger on average than CCRCs which have been around over 10 years.

 

[harllee]

My mother is in an independent living apartment in a CCRC. It has been great for her. At the beginning of the pandemic there was a 14 day quarantine for anyone who left the CCRC and went out of state or in the hospital. But now there are no restrictions on mother coming and going and she can have visitors in her apartment if she wants --but we have elected to visit mother outside. The common dining room is closed and meals are delivered to her apt. Indoor activities have been cancelled but they have been having outdoor activities such as walks, outside meetings, picnics, outside exercise, etc. Mother recently told me she was glad she is in the CCRC because she is able to see and talk to other residents every day. If mother still lived in her house by herself she would be very isolated and lonely.
There have been a few cases in the skilled nursing section of mother's CCRC but mother's apartment is in a separate building and so far no cases there.

We have our names on a local CCRC waiting list. We would like to move in about mid 70 (5 years from now). We don't want to wait too long because you need to be in good health to move in. For example, if you have cancer that disqualifies you for 5 years. You are also disqualified for any type of dementia diagnose and for Parkinson's.

 

[anethum]

My dad needed 24/7 skilled nursing care beginning at age 94 in an HCOL area. He lived for 8 more months and died at home. My mom did a great job maintaining the home with help from me. Unfortunately, my mom developed dementia within a few months of dad's passing. It happened too soon to even have a discussion about moving out of the house. But she resisted any help at home until she fell and had a couple of fractures. At that point she was 95. She was able to return home after rehab but had to accept that she needed help. She has had 24/7 care at home (but hasn't needed more expensive skilled nursing---yet) for nearly 4 years. She's in her late 90s.

My dad had a generous COLA'd pension. They always LBYM'd and started amassing some significant savings as their expenses dropped as they got older, esp. past age 80. My dad told me over 30 years ago that they attended a presentation about long-term care insurance and decided against it due to the pension with partial survivor benefits.

Up until now, between dad's skilled nursing needs and my mom's ongoing home care needs, the bill has been about $700,000 and rising. I think their savings will outlast my mom, as she recently had another setback and I'm considering home hospice in the coming months. With covid-19, she is certainly safer at home than anywhere else, though not without risk due to the 24/7 care she needs.

 

[NoiseBoy]

Dad is in assisted living. At the start of the outbreak, the facility was on lockdown meaning no family visits and the residents were restricted to their rooms 24 hours a day. Meals were brought to them. When the rules were relaxed to "phase 2" we could visit outside while maintaining social distancing guidelines. But, if a worker who has direct contact with the residents tests positive, they go back to phase 1 rules for two weeks and we can't visit Dad. At this time we do not know how or when we will be able to visit with our father once it becomes too cold to meet outdoors. I would not move into assisted living at this time unless it was necessary.

 

[Koolau]

Though neither parent reached 90, they both ended their lives in memory care units. Before that, they spent virtually NOTHING. Just food, utilities, HC insurance, etc. They just never bought anything.

Fortunately, they came out "even" on their money - I think there was a couple thousand left in the check book when mom died. Not enough for even one more month in the care facility. Can't complain as I never expected inheritance. BUT my parents experience is probably why DW and I both have LTC policies (mom had one but outlived it - also, it wasn't "enough" to cover her care, but it helped a lot.)

So, one of the black swans that concerns me is LTC. Yes, "average" is 3 years or whatever, but I've known of folks who lived 15 years in a facility. 3 years is no sweat, financially. 15 years, I'm not at all sure.

SO, I've found myself mentally doing back-of-the-envelope calculations about how long our stash might last should one or both of us end our days in a care home. Locally, $10k/ month wouldn't be out of the question - though we might simply move to a lower COL area if need be. Even with a decent stash, and the value of a condo, we don't get to 15 years for two of us - maybe not 10 years.

I know the odds are with us, but it's something I tend to think about from time to time - but YMMV.

 

[NoiseBoy]

After thinking about this topic some more, I decided that my comments regarding my parent's spending and portfolio balance in their later years needed more clarification.

When they downsized out of their paid-for home and into a 3 BDRM apartment, I was surprised to learn that the ~$1000 per month rent did not require them to dip into their savings. In fact, while Mom was alive, they actually ran a ~$500 per month surplus because Mom had her own Soc Sec. But, as they reached their middle 90s, the apartment was starting to be the wrong place for them. It was not in anyway handicap accessible so when Dad's arthritis got bad enough that he needed a wheelchair to move about, living there became more difficult for them.

We started visiting assisted living facilities in the area (Mom went along) and what we found is that they were primarily focused on singles. The places that did have 2 BDRM units, which Mom insisted on, were expensive at around $6500 a month or more. At that time they had ~$250k in savings and $2500 in monthly income. My projections indicated that they would run out of money in 5 - 6 years. The sad fact is that when Mom died at 95, her death meant that their portfolio can support Dad for up to 10 years if he doesn't require additional care. Also, I think I can cover any gap down the road once Dad starts his veteran's pension.

In conclusion, my parents saved quite a lot for folks with their income level. But, it was not going to be enough (probably) if they had both lived to be 100 and it would've been a challenge for me to cover the gap for both of them. To some extent, I think this financial worry weighted on Mom towards the end.

 

[bolt]

After thinking about this topic some more, I decided that my comments regarding my parent's spending and portfolio balance in their later years needed more clarification.

When they downsized out of their paid-for home and into a 3 BDRM apartment, I was surprised to learn that the ~$1000 per month rent did not require them to dip into their savings. In fact, while Mom was alive, they actually ran a ~$500 per month surplus because Mom had her own Soc Sec. But, as they reached their middle 90s, the apartment was starting to be the wrong place for them. It was not in anyway handicap accessible so when Dad's arthritis got bad enough that he needed a wheelchair to move about, living there became more difficult for them.

We started visiting assisted living facilities in the area (Mom went along) and what we found is that they were primarily focused on singles. The places that did have 2 BDRM units, which Mom insisted on, were expensive at around $6500 a month or more. At that time they had ~$250k in savings and $2500 in monthly income. My projections indicated that they would run out of money in 5 - 6 years. The sad fact is that when Mom died at 95, her death meant that their portfolio can support Dad for up to 10 years if he doesn't require additional care. Also, I think I can cover any gap down the road once Dad starts his veteran's pension.

In conclusion, my parents saved quite a lot for folks with their income level. But, it was not going to be enough (probably) if they had both lived to be 100 and it would've been a challenge for me to cover the gap for both of them. To some extent, I think this financial worry weighted on Mom towards the end.

Many elderly USA Veteran's benefits are unknowns too to many veterans.
Particularly -combat verified veteran's-
I'd suggest you advise your father to see his towns vet's rep. if possible.
In many instances, depending on terms they're provided a living pension.
-Please, do this-
Good luck & best wishes.....

 

[NoiseBoy]

Many elderly USA Veteran's benefits are unknowns too to many veterans.
Particularly -combat verified veteran's-
I'd suggest you advise your father to see his towns vet's rep. if possible.
In many instances, depending on terms they're provided a living pension.
-Please, do this-
Good luck & best wishes.....

I have been to see the local resource officer on my father's behalf. Dad is a WWII Navy veteran, I have copies of his honorable discharge form. On July 4th, 1946 no less! That was a big independence day for him. But, it's my understanding that he cannot start his veteran's pension until his net worth drops below $80,000. That is what I've read online and the resource officer confirm it. But thank you for your comment.