After ER I moved here because...

[BUM]

As ER approaches I'm doing more planning now than ever. Part of that is the Escape Plan.

Reading so many related posts, I can see that folks relocate for many reasons...taxes, healthcare, climate, family, adventure, etc. To make a solution possible I'm trying to prioritize those reasons. So far heres the list:

A. Climate (WARM)
B. Affordable individual healthcare

After that, other "wants" are a plus but the first 2 are "must haves".

Just polling; Why have others made this weighty decision? Taxes? Cost of living, Proximity to cultural venues, airports, the first tee?


BUM

 

[Martha]

When I "fully retire" we will stay in Minnesota. We have no employer paid health care after I leave work. Minnesota clearly has the most affordable health insurance for those who might have difficulty getting health insurance on the regular market.

The downside is the climate. Where I live it is absolutely beautiful in the summer and fall. Winters are tough and spring is very, very late and almost non-existent. Our plan is to travel in the winter months and after a few years, maybe acquire a second home in a warmer location, but remain Minnesota residents.

I had to go back and add to this message. I am not just in Minnesota for the health care and the nice summers. In large part I am here because it is one of the last refuge of us proud liberals.

 

[sgeeeee]

As ER approaches I'm doing more planning now than ever. Part of that is the Escape Plan.

Reading so many related posts, I can see that folks relocate for many reasons...taxes, healthcare, climate, family, adventure, etc.   To make a solution possible I'm trying to prioritize those reasons. So far heres the list:

A. Climate (WARM)
B. Affordable individual healthcare  

After that, other "wants" are a plus but the first 2 are "must haves".

Just polling; Why have others made this weighty decision? Taxes? Cost of living, Proximity to cultural venues, airports, the first tee?


BUM

Hi BUM,

When I was deciding where to retire I went through an exercise similar to what you're doing. I recall finding some web sites that had retirement location finders. MONEY magazine had a pretty sophisticated one that allowed you to rank a dozen or more considerations and would then search a large data base of towns and cities and make suggestions. My wife and I would talk about our priority list of considerations, run the simulator and look at the results. There were usually several suggestions that we thought were viable and worth considering. Then we would modify our weightings (it's always pretty arbitrary deciding whether climate, for example, is 7 or a 9 on a priority scale), run the location finder again and take a look at any new towns that came up. The lists that came out of the location finder would also make us think of other towns and cities we thought we might like.

Warm climate, low crime, nearness to a University, adequate medical facilities, and to an airport were important to us. Of course we would prefer low cost of living.

In the end, though, we kept ending up talking about the Phoenix area. We had lived there for 14 years and had a network of friends that made it comfortable and appealing. Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa, Chandler, etc. would come up as some of the higher rated locations (although never at the top) when we ran the finder, so our decision was not inconsistent with what the simulations told us. But I think we would have ended up here with or without the exercise. Maybe going through the exercise made us feel more secure in our decision.

 

[Nords]

I believe Hawaii meets those criteria...

... certainly the first is tempered by tradewinds to leave warmth without so much humidity.

The second is achievable, too. You can't pop around the corner to Johns Hopkins or the Mayo clinic but Hawaii is one of the nation's top healthy lifestyle states.

The overall tax package isn't as bad as you see in the media (shhhhh). If you're a retiree, much of your income is untaxed-- we haven't paid state income taxes in two years. And property taxes are only ~3.65 mils.

Cost of living-- especially real estate-- is higher. You have to decide if the other factors make this worth the 20-30% aloha premium. But think how much you'll save on heating oil!

http://www.hawaii.gov/portal/

 

[ESRBob]

Bum (since you're almost there we can drop off the wannabe now!)

We stayed exactly where we were -- we liked everything about our lives except the work.

Having a strong community, good schools (kids were then 5 and 9), friends etc etc -- all the things we wanted to spend more time with.

I understand on the traditional retirement front, more people are also retiring at home instead of following the tired old path to Florida etc. Some are also moving to a nearby city, reversing another old trend. Why? More things going on. Young retirees (or 65 year-olds who have good health and lots of years in front of them) need to think about where they want to have a life. The 'retirment industry' may be at its most hype-filled when its telling you to work your whole life to save millions in high-fee savings vehicles, but the selling of 'retirement gated communities' and so forth is almost as big a hype. Until you get to a nursing home, I'd say you are far better off in a place with friends, roots, community than in some town-house gated community retirement concept development that is more or less indistinguishable from hundreds of other places that have sprung up in the last 20 years.

ESRBob

 

[sgeeeee]

Here's an interesting tabulation that relates to this question.

http://www.governmentguide.com/community_and_home/morganmostdangerouscities.adp


"Top 25 Most Dangerous Cities 2004


Data compiled by Morgan Quitno

Can you go to sleep with the front door unlocked? Better check this chart first.

1 Camden, NJ
2 Detroit, MI
3 Atlanta, GA
4 St. Louis, MO
5 Gary, IN
6 Washington, DC
7 Hartford, CT
8 New Orleans, LA
9 Richmond, VA
10 Birmingham, AL
11 Baltimore, MD
12 Richmond, CA
13 Memphis, TN
14 Jackson, MS
15 Tampa, FL
16 San Bernardino, CA
17 Compton, CA
18 Springfield, MA
19 Miami, FL
20 Cleveland, OH
21 Dayton, OH
22 North Charleston, SC
23 Little Rock, AR
24 Oakland, CA
25 Cincinnati, OH "

 

[John Galt]

You know, I never thought too much about it when I moved to the Detroit area in 1976, nor even while we
lived there (4 years). But, we were crime
victims many times while we lived there. Luckily, no violent crime. However, one guy I knew was assaulted
on the street and I did witness a killing one day on my lunch hour. Prostitution/drugs appeared to trail only the auto biz as a revenue producer. Not a place for the faint of heart.

John Galt

 

[BUM]

Thank you all. Generally this was the type of response I hoped for. I could never fill out some dopey survey or questionaire and discover that I should retire to Podunk...and then move there!

Our paid off homes in Upstate NY and at the NC shore are expensive but familier and comfortable base camps. Several friends have told us they also have retired to palces to be near family and friends.

I have a feeling that (with the exception of climate) state taxes and many other COL annoyances are things people complain about but seldom actually relocate to improve.

I think I'll move relo toughts to the back burner.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

BUM

 

[John Galt]

This is for Cut-Throat and Martha. I have always
viewed Minnesota as a liberal bastion. If true, why do you think that is? Also, Cut-Throat, I hate both
northern winters and moving with equal verve. We
solved it by buying a completely furnished condo in the south. Thus (if we ever actually become snowbirds), we just
pack our clothes and take off. It's no more trouble than a lengthy vacation at a resort.

John Galt

 

[Martha]

John, it's because the women are strong, the men good looking and the children above average.


Minnesota may in part have a liberal history because of the values immigrants brought to the state. Minnesota still seems strongly liberal in the northern part of the state and in the twin cities. Less so in suburban and other out state areas.

I hope we don't lose the liberal tradition of making decisions based on evidence and paying for what we value.

 

[John Galt]

Hi Martha! re. the reference to Lake Wobegon, Cute!
I use that line all the time when signing off on e-mails to my friends. But, back to Minn., maybe that's why I love Texas so much. Outside of the cities you have to look pretty hard to find a real liberal, although I suspect
some closet types are lurking.

John Galt

 

[brewer12345]

Thank you all. Generally this was the type of response I hoped for. I could never fill out some dopey survey or questionaire and discover that I should retire to Podunk...and then move there!

Our paid off homes in Upstate NY and at the NC shore are expensive but familier and comfortable base camps. Several friends have told us they also have retired to palces to be near family and friends.  

I have a feeling that (with the exception of climate) state taxes and many other COL annoyances are things people complain about but seldom  actually relocate to improve.

I think I'll move relo toughts to the back burner.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

BUM

Hey, BUM, where is your pad in Upstate NY? I always thought that aside from the winters, it wouldn't be a terrible place for a home base.

 

[BUM]

brewer12345

Base is Fishkill, NY. Picture post card heaven! Mid Hudson Valley is world class beautiful but winter and sinus hell. We have more ENT docs here than most PA coal mine towns.


BUM

 

[brewer12345]

brewer12345

Base is Fishkill, NY. Picture post card heaven! Mid Hudson Valley is world class beautiful but winter and sinus hell. We have more ENT docs here than most PA coal mine towns.  


BUM

Very nice indeed. I have been lusting after a place a little further up, near Hancock or Caliicoon, or perhaps over the border in Wayne County, PA.

 

[BUM]

Very nice indeed.  I have been lusting after a place a little further up, near Hancock or Caliicoon, or perhaps over the border in Wayne County, PA.  

brewer12345,

Interesting choice, I had a relative who left home "hid out" in Hancock for decades...very rural. Here is a typical senario for those who aspire to homestead in the Catskills. Several of my hunting buddies did this.

First buy your land, clear land.. sometimes a logger will pay you handsomely and build your road. set up a hunting camp (lean-to or cabin), over the years add well and septic, foundation, structure, utilities, etc. All this is a function of the time and money. More money, less time.

The most important step is choosing the acreage. You can wind up in a Smokey Mtn. type holler, where the sun rises around 11am and sets about 2pm!

Or you can just buy someone else's spread. The area in and around Binghampton is horribly depressed. Deals can be had in the southern tier. Happy hunting.

BUM

 

[John Galt]

My son and I both had this dream. I have owned a lot
of remote property in several states over the years,
some of it quite lovely. Never quite got it done. I got too old an he turned into a Yuppie. End of story.

John Galt

 

[Calgary_Girl]

Haven't ER'd yet but I don't think we'll ever live anywhere but Calgary. No reason to leave except maybe escape the winter weather and only when it gets REALLY cold. Maybe we'll become snowbirds.

Life is pretty good up here...45 minutes from the Rockies and skiing; great summers with no humidity; cheap healthcare and the provincial government just paid off the last of the debt so let the spending begin!

 

[brewer12345]

brewer12345,

Interesting choice, I had a relative who left home "hid out" in Hancock for decades...very rural. Here is a typical senario for those who aspire to homestead in the Catskills. Several of my hunting buddies did this.

First buy your land, clear land.. sometimes a logger will pay you handsomely and build your road. set up a hunting camp (lean-to or cabin), over the years add well and septic, foundation, structure, utilities, etc.   All this is a function of the time and money.  More money, less time.

The most important step is choosing the acreage. You can wind up in a Smokey Mtn. type holler, where the sun rises around 11am and sets about 2pm!

Or you can just buy someone else's spread. The area in and around Binghampton is horribly depressed. Deals can be had in the southern tier. Happy hunting.

BUM

Danger Will Robinson! You are validating my wild spending fantasy that would definately interfere with my FIRE plans, at least at this stage. Still, its pretty hard for me to resist. I'd love a place out there. Unfortunately, my wife would insist on indoor plumbing, so an outhouse and pump well. in a basic cabin won't past spousal muster. I guess I will just keep an eye ut. We plan on starting to take regular trips to the area (and across the PA border) next year to get more familiar with all the nooks and crannies.

 

[John Galt]

I once acquired a gorgeous piece of Michigan real
estate in an exchange (wish I still owned it). Four
acres on a large trout stream, great view, 400 feet of water frontage with a nice cottage and bunkhouse.
Unfortunately, no indoor plumbing, just an outside
hand pump. We were going to install a bath and septic
but ran into a lot of problems (the topsoil was only
inches deep, then solid rock). To my surprise, my wife
(not really outdoorsy at all) said let's go with the outhouse and pump, it will be rustic. So, we rehabbed
the outhouse (2 holer) and kept a fresh water
supply in the cottage. Thus, we had many options
in place of indoor plumbing. It worked out fine,
although washing up at the outside pump was kind
of like dunking your head in ice water. Once we put
a Jacuzzi hot tub on the deck, it was pretty darn comfy.
When I remarried in 2001, we would have moved there
had I still owned it.

John Galt

 

[brewer12345]

I once acquired a gorgeous piece of Michigan real
estate in an exchange (wish I still owned it).  Four
acres on a large trout stream, great view, 400 feet of water frontage with a nice cottage and bunkhouse.
Unfortunately, no indoor plumbing, just an outside
hand pump.  We were going to install a bath and septic
but ran into a lot of problems (the topsoil was only
inches deep, then solid rock).  To my surprise, my wife
(not really outdoorsy at all) said let's go with the outhouse and pump, it will be rustic.  So, we rehabbed
the outhouse (2 holer) and kept a fresh water
supply in the cottage.  Thus, we had many options
in place of indoor plumbing.  It worked out fine,
although washing up at the outside pump was kind
of like dunking your head in ice water.  Once we put
a Jacuzzi hot tub on the deck, it was pretty darn comfy.
When I remarried in 2001, we would have moved there
had I still owned it.  

John Galt

Just curious: why did you sell?

 

[AltaRed]

Calgary_Girl, as a long time Calgarian currently on ex-pat assignment in Houston, it is getting harder and harder for spouse and I to consider returning to Calgary when I retire in the next year or two.

Once one gets used to being able to sit on the back patio in the mornings most days of the year (except last 2 mornings) in the Houston area reading the paper, having a coffee, listening to the water gurgle in our waterfall, and the Hibiscus still in bloom, my wife would consider the weather in Calgary self-inflicted masochism.

But since that is where most of the family is, we will probably find some way to enjoy 3 months in Calgary, tolerate another 4, and vacate south for most of the remaining 5 months.

 

[LEX]

Bum:

I Lucked out as to this point.   I worked in various positions San Francisco, Houston, Denver,  and was actually "recruited" in my early 40's to take a great position in Phoenix to head up a small company. (Phoenix was on my short list as places where I would like to base in ER!) Its not perfect, few places are, but its as best a base as I have had.  I can catch a flight out of Sky Harbor to Hawaii, Costa Rica or Europe, and drive to many of the resort areas on the Pacific.  The cost of housing is still within what passes the sanity test during this low interest rate induced bubble out west. (Part of the growth out here is the result of economic refugees moving "back east" out of SOCAL. 8))  Its a very livable desert. Once you figure out that you have to travel to milder climes from June till August rather than suffer through the blast furnace heat of summer, it works to base here.  No frozen pipe issues when you are out of town to worry about.  Gravel yards, a few cacti, and the yard work is simple.  If you come out to AZ, do not get a pool if you are going to be on the road much, unless you want to have your own frog pond...there are actually services here that drain pools and put a deck over them so that you can avoid the hassel of pool maintenance.  I can find decent livable homes (Check the net)  for 175-200 K.  AZ works for me as per Bum's wish list for ER.  

 

[John Galt]

Hi Brewer! Just noticed your query re. selling my Michigan cottage. It was about the time I was semiretiring (1993)
and moving back to Illinois where most of my family was
still located. Didn't think I could afford to keep it and I
didn't know I would end up back in Michigan in just
a few years. Also didn't know that my future wife would be a
Michigander. So, a classic case of 20/20 hindsight.


JG