Amazon web site scam

[tfudtuckerpucker]

This topic is more interesting than I thought. Half of all Amazon shipments are now from outside sellers. So it's kinda Ebay vs Amazon, except Amazon's prices are all "Buy it Now". Like Ebay, Amazon 3rd party deals with fakes, scammers, etc. I can't see much difference. Maybe it's clearer that it's "buyer beware" for ebay. They both have a buyer protection fallback. Some think Amazon's is better. I've been scammed multiple times on Amazon, and never on ebay, FWIW.

How-to-Geek offers some suggestions for Amazon 3rd party buyers.

 

[audreyh1]

That's interesting as the "Fulfilled by Amazon" (FBA) page states the following, which is the reason I have no concerns about purchasing from third parties using the FBA program:



https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=200386180&ld=AZFSSOA-dT1

I've returned a number of FBA items, including one last week, with no problems.

Me too - I hadn't run into return policy problems.

 

[cathy63]

So ... I have done some selling through Amazon and might be able to shed some light on some of the things you have seen.

The first issue that started this thread, where the seller tried to take the transaction off of Amazon is a clear violation of the contract between the seller and Amazon. Doing this gets sellers kicked off the platform and you should definitely report it.

"Fulfilled by Amazon" (FBA) is a program where the seller sends boxes of items to various Amazon warehouses and Amazon then ships the items out to buyers. Amazon sends them out in the seller's packaging without investigating whether the items actually match the product description, are genuine, are really "new", etc. Also, this is commingled inventory from all sellers of the item (unless the seller has paid extra to keep his inventory separate), so you are not necessarily getting the item from the seller you ordered it from and may in fact be getting it from a counterfeiter. As a buyer, what you do get from FBA is Amazon-speed shipping. That's all.

For the seller, it costs the seller money to send the items to Amazon. It costs money every month to have Amazon warehouse the items. Then they charge to pick and pack the items for shipment. Amazon also charges to send them back to the seller or destroy them if they haven't been sold within a specific period. Sometimes items that were "destroyed" show up for sale by Amazon itself. Sometimes incoming shipments are lost at the warehouse and sellers get compensated at a rate much less than they would have earned for sales of those items. Sometimes those "lost" items also show up for sale by Amazon itself.

Third party sellers who do their own fulfillment are required to match or exceed Amazon's return policy. For most items purchased outside the holiday season, that is 30 days, though sometimes Amazon itself makes case-by-case exceptions, and they have also been known to force sellers to refund even when the buyer has done something stupid like ship to the wrong address. Many items, such as food, gift cards and some clothing are not returnable to either Amazon or 3rd party sellers, so if you weren't able to return something that was within the 30-day window, it was probably in one of these special classifications. But again, FBA is giving you the minimum possible return window. You might get the same window by buying directly from a 3rd party, or you might get a better one.

My personal policy is to not purchase items that are FBA unless there is only one 3rd-party seller and it is the manufacturer, or unless there's absolutely no market for counterfeits.

 

[cathy63]

Interesting. I didn't have any problem when the item sent to me was the one not ordered. When that happened twice in a row (the replacement was the same wrong item), I finally got through to them that they had an inventory control problem. I think I actually left a review on the item to report the problem. The review was not accepted, but the item was promptly removed as "unavailable" online with some note that Amazon had been notified of a problem with their inventory. So the system worked.

This is one of the things that makes sellers crazy! It happens when Amazon merges listings because their "bot" has determined that two things are really the same. The bot makes a lot of errors and sometimes you'll see something like a title that says "3-pack" but the lowest seller's price is clearly for a single item. If you purchase from this seller before he's able to delist his inventory and report the problem, he has to either fulfill the order at a loss or get dinged for cancelling the order. Too many cancellations get the seller account suspended and the appeal process for getting reinstated is pretty byzantine. Sellers with a lot of inventory typically have a practice of checking their listings every morning to look for crazy merges, and then they have to take inventory offline and lose sales while waiting for them to get fixed.

 

[cathy63]

I still chuckle about the third party Amazon purchase of some A sized paper that was drop shipped from Sam's. Fine with me as I didn't have a Sam's Club membership. But all the seller was doing was accepting the order from Amazon and turning around and ordering the item on the customer's behalf from Sam's who provided free shipping. Creativity! I don't think they made much on the transaction - a couple of $ maybe as it was a cheap item.

There are quite a few sellers on Amazon who sell Costco items for a high markup. Amazing all the crap that goes down.

That's just retail arbitrage. If you're willing to pay a higher price on Amazon, someone will take advantage. Planet Money had a very interesting episode on this last year: Episode 629: Buy Low, Sell Prime : Planet Money : NPR

 

[REWahoo]

As a buyer, what you do get from FBA is Amazon-speed shipping. That's all.

This statement in conflict with what I quoted and linked from Amazon in post #25 above. Doesn't the buyer also get Amazon's return policies and customer service rather than having to deal directly with the seller?

With FBA, Amazon provides fulfillment and customer service for your orders, including processing customer returns.

 

[audreyh1]

This is one of the things that makes sellers crazy! It happens when Amazon merges listings because their "bot" has determined that two things are really the same. The bot makes a lot of errors and sometimes you'll see something like a title that says "3-pack" but the lowest seller's price is clearly for a single item. If you purchase from this seller before he's able to delist his inventory and report the problem, he has to either fulfill the order at a loss or get dinged for cancelling the order. Too many cancellations get the seller account suspended and the appeal process for getting reinstated is pretty byzantine. Sellers with a lot of inventory typically have a practice of checking their listings every morning to look for crazy merges, and then they have to take inventory offline and lose sales while waiting for them to get fixed.

Well the item had shrink wrap packaging on the bottle that had a label pasted on top that identified it as one thing, and the label inside the plastic on the bottle said another. So there seemed to be an issue with mislabeling. Also, there was only one seller, and it may have been the manufacturer.

 

[audreyh1]

That's just retail arbitrage. If you're willing to pay a higher price on Amazon, someone will take advantage. Planet Money had a very interesting episode on this last year: Episode 629: Buy Low, Sell Prime : Planet Money : NPR

Sure.

Thanks for the link.

 

[cathy63]

This statement in conflict with what I quoted and linked from Amazon in post #25 above. Doesn't the buyer also get Amazon's return policies and customer service rather than having to deal directly with the seller?

With FBA you get Amazon's return policies which are the minimum that you'd get if you were working directly with the seller anyway. Amazon requires 3rd-party sellers to match or exceed its return policies including extending the return window for shipments made in Nov/Dec. So everywhere you see something like "3rd party sellers' return policies may be different", you can replace that with "3rd party sellers' return policies may be better".

It's probably true that you don't have to contact the seller first to return something that came via FBA. I think I've only returned 3 or 4 things in all the years I've been using Amazon, so it's never been an issue for me. Amazon does have requirements for the timeframe that sellers have to respond to an email from a customer. I believe it's 24 hours, including weekends. If sellers miss too many response windows, they get suspended or kicked off.

 

[audreyh1]

With FBA you get Amazon's return policies which are the minimum that you'd get if you were working directly with the seller anyway. Amazon requires 3rd-party sellers to match or exceed its return policies including extending the return window for shipments made in Nov/Dec. So everywhere you see something like "3rd party sellers' return policies may be different", you can replace that with "3rd party sellers' return policies may be better".

It's probably true that you don't have to contact the seller first to return something that came via FBA. I think I've only returned 3 or 4 things in all the years I've been using Amazon, so it's never been an issue for me. Amazon does have requirements for the timeframe that sellers have to respond to an email from a customer. I believe it's 24 hours, including weekends. If sellers miss too many response windows, they get suspended or kicked off.

In items like clothing and shoes where Amazon advertises free returns, the third party sellers don't match that refund policy. So it depends. This is an area where I am careful to only buy from Amazon as the seller because I want free no hassle returns if the clothing doesn't fit or I don't like it.

 

[REWahoo]

It's probably true that you don't have to contact the seller first to return something that came via FBA.

I can recall returning two items purchased and shipped from Amazon 3rd party sellers (not FBA). In both cases the seller agreed - after some email back and forth - to the return but refused to pay for return shipping costs, even for an item that was DOA. Contrast this to Amazon, who in my experience immediately approves the return for a FBA item and allows me to print a prepaid UPS shipping label for the return.

So everywhere you see something like "3rd party sellers' return policies may be different", you can replace that with "3rd party sellers' return policies may be better".

Not when it comes to who pays for the return shipping costs - at least in my experience.

This is why I see value in the FBA program and will only order from 3rd party FBA sellers.

 

[Lsbcal]

The FBA item I mentioned was a very small purchase, under $5. Still I was annoyed that the web site said I could not return the item. So I called Amazon and they refunded the money to me. Told me to keep the item.

I suggested to the Amazon rep that non-returnable items be clearly marked as such at checkout. She thought it was a good suggestion and made a note of it.

 

[skipro33]

Interesting. I didn't have any problem when the item sent to me was the one not ordered. When that happened twice in a row (the replacement was the same wrong item), I finally got through to them that they had an inventory control problem. I think I actually left a review on the item to report the problem. The review was not accepted, but the item was promptly removed as "unavailable" online with some note that Amazon had been notified of a problem with their inventory. So the system worked.

Anyway, had no problem returning the second item. I gave up on that item and got something slightly different.

I do always check the return policy, but I don't think I've had issues with returning items fulfilled by Amazon. The return policy gets tricky when buying items shipped from a third party seller. You always have to read the fine print on those, and ultimately I've decided it's usually not worth dealing with them because the return policies can be quite tricky.

I had the same thing happen;
I ordered a receiver hitch for my car and got a curtain rod. You would think the weight difference; over 50 pounds for the hitch, would have tipped 'em off, but no. Twice they sent me the curtain rod before they got it right. Not only did they pay shipping on 50 pounds twice, the return shipping label was for 50 pounds each as well. Amazon did discount the hitch another 10% for my trouble and the delay. Fulfillment by Amazon worked well for me!

 

[meierlde]

I had the same thing happen;
I ordered a receiver hitch for my car and got a curtain rod. You would think the weight difference; over 50 pounds for the hitch, would have tipped 'em off, but no. Twice they sent me the curtain rod before they got it right. Not only did they pay shipping on 50 pounds twice, the return shipping label was for 50 pounds each as well. Amazon did discount the hitch another 10% for my trouble and the delay. Fulfillment by Amazon worked well for me!

It happened to me once when I got a totally wrong order, it was either fulfilled by or from Amazon directly. The first clue was the box was far larger. and I did suggest to amazon, since their systems tell the packer which size box to use, that a check be made that the size of box expected was that which shipped. In your case it seems that Amazon might also check the weight against the expected weight and reject mismatches as well. (Their computers do have all the information, but it does appear that the left computer does not talk to well to the right computer etc.) It is just a matter of adding a few more cross checks in their systems.

 

[Golden sunsets]

Wow, thank you for all the discussion and warnings! I have not (yet) been scammed on Amazon, and didn't even know it ever happened to people. I'll be MUCH more careful about third party sellers, now, unless it says "fulfilled by Amazon".

+1. This an eye opener. Thx to the OP. I had no idea!

 

[aja8888]

I've had much better experiences on ebay, since the feedback rating seems to help a lot. I have found ebay sellers usually ship quickly, whereas I have experienced Amazon third party sellers sit on an order for weeks before shipping. Amazon has a feedback rating system, but it doesn't seem to mean much.

Anyway, no more Amazon third party purchases for me.

It's eye-opening to see someone praise eBay over Amazon. Years ago, that was the reverse. I joined eBay as a seller and buyer in 1999 and back then it was like the wild,wild, west. Then the scammers came and you know the rest of the story. Now eBay is pretty clean and the scammers are infiltrating Amazon. (LOL!)

 

[audreyh1]

This topic is more interesting than I thought. Half of all Amazon shipments are now from outside sellers. So it's kinda Ebay vs Amazon, except Amazon's prices are all "Buy it Now". Like Ebay, Amazon 3rd party deals with fakes, scammers, etc. I can't see much difference. Maybe it's clearer that it's "buyer beware" for ebay. They both have a buyer protection fallback. Some think Amazon's is better. I've been scammed multiple times on Amazon, and never on ebay, FWIW.

How-to-Geek offers some suggestions for Amazon 3rd party buyers.

Yeah - really.

I know DH and I abandoned eBay many years ago because it seemed to be taken over by scammers. But in the past few years the scammers learned how to infiltrate the Amazon infrastructure!

Not to mention the "fake reviews". It used to be quite reliable to read reviews on Amazon. In the last few years you really have to comb through the reviews looking for the "real" ones. Looks like Amazon has been more proactive about curbing this practice lately: https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/27/amazon-sues-more-sellers-for-buying-fake-reviews/

It's incredible how many people (try to) make a living doing this!!!

A long time ago SIL's husband made money on the side by going to flea markets and garage sales and reselling items on eBay. That was before it became a big business!!!

On the arbitrage - don't people price check items? It's pretty easy to find out who selling an item for what amount by doing a simple google search. I guess some people don't bother. But why would they go to eBay without checking Amazon first?

 

[RobbieB]

I've bought 100's of items from ebay and Amazon some of which came directly from China over the last 10 years (or more) and not once been "scammed"

But I never had anyone email me with anything other than a shipping update either.

I dunno.

 

[audreyh1]

I first became aware of the problem about a year ago when I was trying to buy something as simple as Apple phone charging cable. The newer reviews reported that the items shipped by third party sellers were counterfeit and often did not work. Since then I've become aware that counterfeit Apple accessories are a huge third party seller business on Amazon. If it's sold by Amazon, it will be the real deal.

BTW Amazon makes their own brand accessories (like cables) for Apple products that are quite good.

 

[Scuba]

I have recently noticed when reading reviews of certain items (sunscreens and Bluetooth headsets) that many buyers who bought these items through third party sellers said the items were fakes. That was enough for me to buy the items the old fashioned way or order directly from the manufacturer rather than Amazon. Too bad as I'm a prime member and love Amazon's customer service.

 

[audreyh1]

I have recently noticed when reading reviews of certain items (sunscreens and Bluetooth headsets) that many buyers who bought these items through third party sellers said the items were fakes. That was enough for me to buy the items the old fashioned way or order directly from the manufacturer rather than Amazon. Too bad as I'm a prime member and love Amazon's customer service.

If Amazon is the seller, it won't be fake.

Unfortunately it's true that a lot of third party sellers, including those "fulfilled by Amazon" are selling fakes of name brand items.

Good thing the reviews stand.

 

[Masquernom]

We were looking for an exercise bike this past Christmas on Amazon. There were constant new third party sellers offering them for $200 to $300 cheaper than anyone else. Same deal as original poster. You had to e-mail them for details, etc.. The seller would disappear for a day and reappear with a slightly new name. They were offering a lot of popular exercise equipment under different listings. So beware.....

 

[Aerides]

This is a new scam popping up quite a bit.

That said, a lot of 3rd party sellers are very very established businesses, and probably a much higher percent of goods you buy on amazon are 3rd party - just because it's "fulfilled by amazon" doesn't mean the item is owned by amazon. Many name brands, however, do not permit 3p's to sell their items, so that's where fakes can happen.

Anytime you can add-to-cart, from a seller with some reviews, shipping from the U.S., you are probably buying from a legit business. It's these offers and off-site correspondence required before purchase that anyone should avoid. That, and long-time ship dates, or "just launched" sellers - avoid.