Car Maintenance Rant

[youbet]

Another reason to avoid the American car brands.

Buying a foreign brand isn't a guarantee of honest service. The worse dealer I ever, ever dealt with was a Toyota dealer.

 

[youbet]

Engineers who design stuff like that should be taken out and shot.

Or "Engineers ........... should be taken out and shot."

 

[travelover]

That's amazing, but I believe it. Friend of ours had a Prius and to replace a headlight bulb he had to take the bumper and fender off!

Engineers who design stuff like that should be taken out and shot.

Trust me, decisions like that are not made by a single engineer. Packaging design is like an automaker's Congress and it is where appeals are made and lost, deals and compromises are struck and sausage made. Everyone wants their piece of the turf and someone always loses.

 

[Hermit]

Or "Engineers ........... should be taken out and shot."

Ouch!

 

[Walt34]

Trust me, decisions like that are not made by a single engineer. Packaging design is like an automaker's Congress and it is where appeals are made and lost, deals and compromises are struck and sausage made. Everyone wants their piece of the turf and someone always loses.

I kinda figured that. Some of that stuff is clearly so screwed up it had to be designed by a committee.

 

[ERD50]

That's amazing, but I believe it. Friend of ours had a Prius and to replace a headlight bulb he had to take the bumper and fender off!

Engineers who design stuff like that should be taken out and shot.

Trust me, decisions like that are not made by a single engineer. Packaging design is like an automaker's Congress and it is where appeals are made and lost, deals and compromises are struck and sausage made. Everyone wants their piece of the turf and someone always loses.

Then the overseeing manager should be the one to blame - someone has to approve this stuff.

Ouch!

Better than shooting, send them out to the field to do the repair (pro bono for the customer), in the cold, and the dark, and the rain and snow.

My Volvo has some little clips to hold in the halogen bulb. It is near impossible to get those clips to sit right, something has to be aligned just right, and it's a blind operation with your hand in there covering up any little view you might have had.

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

That's amazing, but I believe it. Friend of ours had a Prius and to replace a headlight bulb he had to take the bumper and fender off!

Engineers who design stuff like that should be taken out and shot.

Not necessarily. Sometimes engineers have to design around specs that they know are full of 'compromises'. They have no choice.

Never mind. Others made the point.

 

[Big_Hitter]

try changing the spark plugs on a turbo Subaru - gotta remove the cai, washer reservoir, coil packs, etc. takes forever

 

[Walt34]

Not necessarily. Sometimes engineers have to design around specs that they know are full of 'compromises'. They have no choice.

I'm sure that is the case. Nonetheless, I will never, ever, buy a Prius if the company is so incredibly sloppy so as to release a design that requires removing a fender and bumper just to replace a light bulb. I simply cannot envision any reason for something like that.

It tells me they don't care about the customer or his maintenance expenses. All they care about is selling the car.

 

[travelover]

I'm sure that is the case. Nonetheless, I will never, ever, buy a Prius if the company is so incredibly sloppy so as to release a design that requires removing a fender and bumper just to replace a light bulb. I simply cannot envision any reason for something like that.

It tells me they don't care about the customer or his maintenance expenses. All they care about is selling the car.

I had a 1967 AMC Rebel that had a freeze plug rust out and start leaking. Dealer said, "need to pull the engine to fix it". I cut a 4" diameter hole in the firewall, popped in a new freeze plug, pop riveted a cover on the hole and covered it with the carpet.

BTW I was never a package engineer, so don't shoot me.

 

[FIREd]

That's amazing, but I believe it. Friend of ours had a Prius and to replace a headlight bulb he had to take the bumper and fender off!

Engineers who design stuff like that should be taken out and shot.

Sometimes, you have to wonder if complexity is not introduced on purpose so that people become dependent on the dealership for repairs. On my old Ford Tempo and Mazda Miata, simple repairs like changing the battery were super easy. They required no special tools or skills. On most modern cars, forget about it.

 

[Beldar]

Is that what the FSM specifies? Are the projectors isolated behind the fender?

I have to disassemble quite a bit sometimes on my MX5 for simple inexpensive parts (i.e. T-Stat), but that sounds like alot of trouble for a lamp.

_B

 

[travelover]

Sometimes, you have to wonder if complexity is not introduced on purpose so that people become dependent on the dealership for repairs. On my old Ford Tempo and Mazda Miata, simple repairs like changing the battery were super easy. They required no special tools or skills. On most modern cars, forget about it.

I've never seen collusion to send more work to the dealers. In my experience, it was always a struggle for the company to keep the dealers from blackening the company name, as well as to keep the dealers from hosing the company on bogus warranty charges. It is not a cozy relationship and it is hard to get rid of a bad dealer because of state laws that favor dealers.

 

[Hermit]

I tried to change a front parking light on my 2006 Audi TT. After breaking a couple of plastic pins, I took it to a German car specialist. He had it done in about 5 minutes. I have no clue how he did it. Didn't charge me anything on that, but his hourly rate was about the same as the dealership.

 

[FIREd]

I've never seen collusion to send more work to the dealers. In my experience, it was always a struggle for the company to keep the dealers from blackening the company name, as well as to keep the dealers from hosing the company on bogus warranty charges. It is not a cozy relationship and it is hard to get rid of a bad dealer because of state laws that favor dealers.

Good to know, thanks!

 

[Walt34]

Is that what the FSM specifies? Are the projectors isolated behind the fender?

I have to disassemble quite a bit sometimes on my MX5 for simple inexpensive parts (i.e. T-Stat), but that sounds like alot of trouble for a lamp.

I have no idea really, I wasn't there when he did it. But it just seems incredible that cars have been made for a century now and they couldn't think of a better way to place the headlight bulbs?

On my GMC pickup you don't even need any tools - the parts are held in with spring tabs and a steel rod and just pop in and out. It can't get much simpler than that. Not to say that it is a model of simplicity - they put the fuel pump inside the gas tank so if the fuel pump goes bad you have to either raise the pickup bed or drop the fuel tank to get to it. They really, really, couldn't think of a better way than that? I doubt it.

Some will point out that the pump is cooled by the fuel surrounding it. Okay, why? They can't make an air-cooled fuel pump and put it outside the tank? I don't think so. It's stuff like that, that increases maintenance expenses that drives me nuts.

 

[John Galt III]

Part of the problem is that IMO the car makers don't think the average car buyer cares about maintainability. I always check the *ease of maintenance* of any car before I buy it. Currently have a 2009 Nissan Versa, which checked out as pretty good in that category. Only *committee-created engineering fiasco* seems to be that to change the spark plugs you need to remove the intake manifold!!! I knew this and bought the car anyway since the fancy new-fangled plugs last for 95,000 miles, supposedly. I have 78,000 miles on it now and the plugs are working fine. Woohoo ! I do plan to do them myself when the time comes, via Youtube.

 

[ERD50]

Part of the problem is that IMO the car makers don't think the average car buyer cares about maintainability. I always check the *ease of maintenance* of any car before I buy it. ...

Where do you find this info?

I'd also like to avoid getting stuck with a light bulb change, or other simple maintenance issue that is unreasonably difficult/expensive. But I've only founf generic 'total cost of ownership' numbers, or random complaints. Are these organized somewhere, by model?

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

... - they put the fuel pump inside the gas tank so if the fuel pump goes bad you have to either raise the pickup bed or drop the fuel tank to get to it. They really, really, couldn't think of a better way than that? I doubt it.

Some will point out that the pump is cooled by the fuel surrounding it. Okay, why? They can't make an air-cooled fuel pump and put it outside the tank? I don't think so. It's stuff like that, that increases maintenance expenses that drives me nuts.

Wiki covers this a bit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_pump

The pump is submerged in gas, as that is the safest way to do it. Vapors ignite, but liquid is actually hard to ignite. I get the impression from what I've read (never had a modern fuel pump apart myself), that the pump is at the very bottom, below the intake port, so even 'empty', the pump would still be covered with liquid.

And there are safety mechanisms to shut off the pump in a crash, or other defect detected.

Lots of talk on the net about how running low on gas will cause the pump to overheat, but I'm skeptical. It is always submerged - how much heat can that pump generate? How hot would they allow the gasoline to get?

Back to the replacement - pumps are pretty reliable. It's possible that making them easier to replace would have cost more on average (added cost to every single vehicle) than a more involved replacement method, which is going to happen on only a small fraction of the vehicles.

-ERD50

 

[Big_Hitter]

fuel pump on my scoob is inside the tank


I'm actually getting a hp one put in next week so I can run e85


An hour or so of labor - even to change the fuel filter you have to drop the tank

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

That's amazing, but I believe it. Friend of ours had a Prius and to replace a headlight bulb he had to take the bumper and fender off!

Engineers who design stuff like that should be taken out and shot.

 

[aja8888]

fuel pump on my scoob is inside the tank


I'm actually getting a hp one put in next week so I can run e85


An hour or so of labor - even to change the fuel filter you have to drop the tank

VW does the same thing (in tank pump) as many auto manufacturers do these days, but installs an access plate in the top of the fuel tank under the rear seat for easy pump removal.

 

[Big_Hitter]

VW does the same thing (in tank pump) as many auto manufacturers do these days, but installs an access plate in the top of the fuel tank under the rear seat for easy pump removal.

my WRX had an access panel - the FXT doesn't

 

[doneat54]

One of the reasons I am RE is that I never bought a brand new car, and never will. In the last 10 years or so, I have always bought one owner, low mile, 1-3 year old cars and kept them to just under 100k miles. Lately all Toyotas and Volkswagens. If you have to have the "thrill" of a brand new car, be aware of what it is really costing you in depreciation.

To the OP, my .02 cents:

Never buy a brand new car.
Never buy a Ford.
Never take a car to a dealer for repairs unless it is warranty.
Do your own oil changes, it really isn't that hard (unless maybe you live in a city apt. or something like that.)

 

[Big_Hitter]

^^ depends - if you buy used you may be buying someone else's problem - the turbo on my 09 FXT ended up failing at 59 months, probably due to lack of maintenance by the prior owner, turbo failure caused metal to be shot into the intake (bad juju) and it spun a rod bearing - at least it was covered under warranty and I got a new sb out of it