CFL Lightbulbs, LEDs, Incandescents

[laurence]

Done! It's worth a smile on this morning.

[CCdaCE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Just imagine what a significant change it would be if this wasn't always turned into a partisan issue Neither party has done much of anything to bring about any significant change.

In the words of Lewis Black: "The Republicans say 'I have a sh!tty idea' and the Democrats say 'I can make it sh!ttier!'."

Reverse the two parties, if you like.

-CC

[cute fuzzy bunny]

My take is that the republicans have lousy ideas but are usually good executors of those ideas while the democrats have great ideas and lousy execution. I usually will take good execution of a bad idea over bad execution of a good idea.

Of course, lately the ideas stink and the execution is leaving a lot to be desired too.

[Shawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence People need to be educated as to the real cost of our current way of doing things. Let's start with 3000 dead and billions spent in Iraq.

We could also start by dealing with people who spend $300/month on gas.

[laurence]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn We could also start by dealing with people who spend $300/month on gas.

You forgot the smiley face.

I drive a stick shift car to work that get's nearly the gas mileage your car does, and the gas money is primarily spent by DW taking my disabled daughter to therapy. If you read more than one post of mine, you'd know I've already minimized my energy consumption in a lot of ways. But hey, that's o.k. bring it on, show me what you got. Just make your shots across the bow less passive-aggresive.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Aint it funny how great a memory some people have for a particular snarky detail they'll let you have back a week or two later, but they dont remember all that pesky context?

The good news is, having laid the grenade, most of the time they dont even bother to go back and read the thread to see what you had to say about it. I guess these folk arent particularly interested in the details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait

[Cut-Throat]

You mean like this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny Its only a matter of time before we start multiplying random numbers by 25.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Eh, that was just a reminder of some of the really, really dumb things people say sometimes.

Or a warning to those who get obsessed over a bad idea and take it too far.

Sorry pal, but if you wanna run with the big dogs, you cant piss like a puppy.

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny Eh, that was just a reminder of some of the really, really dumb things people say sometimes. Or a warning to those who get obsessed over a bad idea and take it too far. Sorry pal, but if you wanna run with the big dogs, you cant piss like a puppy.

[Shawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence You forgot the smiley face. I drive a stick shift car to work that get's nearly the gas mileage your car does, and the gas money is primarily spent by DW taking my disabled daughter to therapy. If you read more than one post of mine, you'd know I've already minimized my energy consumption in a lot of ways. But hey, that's o.k. bring it on, show me what you got. Just make your shots across the bow less passive-aggresive.

Despite your sarcasm, a smiley was considered. I put it in. Took it out. Put it in. Took it out.

I've read many of your posts. From memory, you have a cute and proud picture of you and your new baby, you had a contest for your new baby's name (that was you, wasn't it?), you lived near the epicenter of the Northridge earthquake, you are in IT or an IT'ish field, you live in or near San Diego, you like or at least have cats, and you are a Bronco fan. Except for the baby, I remember these items because I can relate. I'm a Bronco fan, love cats, know about earthquakes (computer simulated the ground motions of the Northridge earthquake), etc.

I didn't know about your daughter with DS. I assume you mentioned this in an effort to make me feel bad (now that's passive-aggressive). Well, I did feel bad.

You brought up the subject. Even though I was familar with your recent posts, I went back and read or quickly scanned everything you wrote since August 1 (510 posts). While I could have missed a few, outside the current thread, you touched on personal energy conservation in only two posts ... you mentioned the gas mileage of your Volvo twice (28 mpg), and in one of those posts you said that your power bill went from $85 to $65 when you switched to florescents. You made reference to your daughter having downs syndrome in two or three posts. You never mentioned your DW taking your daughter to therapy. You mentioned alcohol or alcohol consumption in perhaps 30-40 posts (sorry for not counting, but my obsession goes only so far). Apparently, you put on 12.5 miles on your Volvo from December 2005 through August 2006. I do not fully understand this since you mentioned your commute was only 12 miles (maybe your DW drives the Volvo). But to address your claim, I have read 510 of your posts and I have not seen much discussion about how you have minimized your energy consumption. Perhaps this was discussed prior to August 1.

My response was not directed specifically at you. However, it does surprise me when some of the most vocal proponents of environmental and other so-called liberal causes are also the biggest consumers of energy. Some individuals spout the typical rhetoric in one sentence and then gleefully share the delights of their many cross-country RV trips in the next sentence. Travel is often associated with ER, but travel also means energy consumption and waste. I'm sorry. You can't have it both ways. This reminds me of individuals who have "Don't Pollute" bumper stickers on the back of their SUV's.

Do you really drive 3500 miles/month (the estimated mileage from energy efficient vehicles at $300/month)? If so, and if this is to benefit your daughter, do you feel at least the slightest bit of gratitude that you live in a gas-guzzling environmentally-polluting war-mongering country that allows you to do what you feel is best for your family? Do you know how much you would spend on gas if you lived in, say, Norway? It is very possible that you would not have the financial resources that allow your DW to drive your daughter to therapy.

While your Volvo gets respectable gas mileage, an environmentally conscious person would immediately exchange it for a Prius or other such vehicle. A guess is that the energy *saved* from this earth friendly act would be greater than the per capita energy consumption of many if not most people in the world. It boggles the mind that the average American, including you, including me, can save more energy through simple steps than what the average person around the world consumes. Or, you could become a real environmentalist and not drive. Use mass transit. Ride a bicycle. I know several people who commute 20-50 miles daily on a bike. Each way. Watch that weight drop. It would seem to be an easy solution for a person training to run a marathon. Think of the cross training benefits. Save up for that solar power system by skipping the booze. If you really care about the environment, let alone the hundred's of thousands of people killed in alcohol-related deaths, it's a sacrifice you'll be willing to make. Of course, as an average American, you are more likely to continue your energy consuming ways and still complain about what the administration and others are or are not doing. You say that America is the number one polluter. Well, who is up near the front of the pack?

As for me, my gas-electric bill is usually less than $15 dollars/month (it is higher when I use space heaters to care for ill cats). My low was $7.04. When I switched to florescents 5 years ago, my bill dropped by only $2 due to my already low usage. Except for my water heater and wall furnance, I have an all electric 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house. I do nothing special except to turn it off when it's not in use. Other than Khan, I may be the most energy efficient person on this forum. Yet I am not an environmentalist. I'm glad I have an automobile. I'm glad I can do all the things I get to do, even if it means wasting energy and polluting the earth. What I don't do is spout all the hypocritical rhetoric that comes from so many others. *I* am the problem. I am the cause of pollution and dwindling resources. I'm probably in the 90% percentile in the world-wide consumption of energy. What about you? You may be in the 95% percentile. Are you the problem, too? Is this even remotely possible?

Mind you, I'm not asking that you stop those 3500 miles. I'm not suggesting that you not have a high electric bill. I'm simply asking you to look in the mirror before telling others or the government what they should do.

Again, my comments are not directed specifically at you. I'm certainly not interested in an argument or anything else. You are obviously a great person with a lot of friends here. I'm a newbie. They will defend you, not me.

My time is limited. I've already spent way too much time on posts. If you respond, I may not see it. However, I will see it if you include it in a message.

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn I've already spent way too much time on posts.

Yes.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

...And it looks like Laurence has a stalker!

I always like it when someone tries to project their values onto someone else.

[FinanceDude]

Shawn............please, get a life..........and I mean that in the nicest way possible.............

[scrinch]

Lunge, parry, riposte, parry.... Okay, we could use some realistic leadership in government in the energy policy arena, and we all should take a good, honest look at our own behavior when we're looking for solutions (or just trying to identify the problem). Good points. Next...

[laurence]

Hmmm, well I thought about how to answer that post of yours there, but I just got out of a 3 hour meeting so my mind is a little jello-ish. I was going to go through it point by point ( my house is 3 bedrooms and 1700 sq. feet, the volvo gets driven on weekends as well, parents live 100 miles away visit them sometimes cuz I'm a nice son etc. ) and I got really tired thinking about it. Let's just stick with the $300 a month for two people in a month for gas. San Diego has some of the highest prices for gas in the nation, despite recent drop downs, we are still right around $2.50. So we would have to consume 120 gallons of gas in 30 days, so about 3 gallons a day, that means if I burn one DW is burning two. My car is a Volvo, yes, and it does o.k. on gas, but DW drives an SUV (gasp) that gets only 20. We live in north county, and she has to drive to various locations for Tori's therapy. Monday is physical therapy, tuesday is OP, Wednesday is therapy via horseback riding (strengthens core muscles of the trunk so hopefully she can walk soon) - that's in fallbrook, and it's a 20 mile drive each way. Children's hospital is over 30 miles each way, and Tori has to go there several times a month. Could I get a car with better gas mileage? Sure. But while you say an environmentally oriented person would "rush right out" and get a hybrid, I don't think that takes into account the added polution the junking of a perfectly good car ( 5 years old ) to buy another. With most cars filled with plastics - petrolium products - and the environmental impact of all the lead and potentially toxic chemicals in every vehicle, it really doesn't make sense to junk a car before it's run into the ground, even if I could improve gas mileage dramatically.

I did trace the path for biking at one point, but the freeway I need to take to work passes over a lake and there are no alternate routes. While they have made taking a bike legal for that one exit that the freeway is over the lake, the path is extremely hazardous and difficult ( the directions include "get off bike and lift over the fence....").

Personal virtue is great, good for you that you consume less energy than 99% of americans. But if the infrastructure is not there to support the virtuous activity, most people aren't going to adopt it. So Cal is a great example of that, no mass transit, sprawling suburbs, etc. It takes both, it's not an either or.

I'm answering your post seriously because you are new here and it's important to give the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately I was going to say more but I just got paged into another meeting. Yikes.

[laurence]

I can't believe I'm follow on posting, but leftover thoughts:

Everything in the house is recycled, the proceeds are used for fun stuff and lotto tickets. We use freecycle and craigslist and have bought very few new things for Tori or our coming baby. We usually have one kitchen trash bag worth of trash a week, max. We even go days without meat, so that brings down our environmental impact since it takes mucho resources to produce meat vs. bread/dairy/veggie.

But I like steak, I like wine/beer, and on weekends I definitely indulge. I am flawed.

How in the world would you get your gas and electric below 15 bucks? I think my base charges for hook up etc. and taxes are more than that. Why do you have nearly two thousand square feet for just you and your cats?

Every American consumes 100 times or more than those in third world countries. I guess we could go to extreme one-upmanship, but let's talk about diminishing returns. Wouldn't closing the exemption loopholes that make a Hummer H2 a "work vehicle" thus tax breaks produce a larger return that you going from 2 bulbs and one space heater in your house to a flashlight and a sweater?

Dude, did you really read my last 500 posts? That's kind of weird, and probably a terrible waste of your time, since I'll be the first to admit I don't contribute much to this board the way brewer, th, wab, nords, martha, and others do. I come here to commiserate with cyber-friends and get my group support on continuing to LBYM, plugging into index funds, and tune out the commercialism of society. I'm the kind of guy who pretty much gets along with everybody I work with and live near.

There is a saying, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.". My SUV is a Jeep, not a Suburban. My house is the smallest in my neighborhood. I have torn out the water-sucking plants on my hill and begun developing a zero-scape for most of my property. This and other things I have detailed on this board make targeting me for your comment make little sense. Free country, mind you, you can have a beef with me if you want, but there are better targets in the world...

Anyhow, I'm not one who enjoys creating enmity, so I'll just conclude by saying feel free to confront/dispute me on anything, just put your comment plainly and in context. Your first post was formatted in "high troll-bait" language....

[Craig]

This is a peculiar issue ... really, not about left and right ... would be nice if it was about the truth. But truth died long ago in this debate.


I strongly agree with the comment above about China ... gee ... do you think emerging markets love the spin this puts on their competition ... the developed markets? And, the idea the U.S. is the #1 polluter in the world? More BS. Do a little research, for heaven's sake.


I'll wager that in a few years, the pendulum swings back, and we learn that ... shock of shocks ... much of this drivel was driven by special interests, on both sides.

And, if you think the "consensus" of scientists are driven by pure motives, you haven't seen environmentalism naked ... much of it is more about hatred of consumerism, free enterprise, and sometimes even the U.S. I've been in the middle of these policy debates, in the Bay area, DC, etc. ... real fruitcakes, Stalinists, "small is beautiful" with brains to match folks. Pitiful.


And I founded an environmental group that won national and local awards, recycle regularly, fought nuclear power, and use solar energy, CFB's, etc. ... many environmentalists are great, sincere folks. Some are not ... I just don't like BS science and the lemming mentality.


Someday, perhaps, we'll get to an honest discussion of this topic, and real problems ... not this current "Michael Moore" brand of "science".

[cute fuzzy bunny]

You used CFB's?!? My god man...how COULD you?

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles And, if you think the "consensus" of scientists are driven by pure motives, you haven't seen environmentalism naked ... much of it is more about hatred of consumerism, free enterprise, and sometimes even the U.S. I've been in the middle of these policy debates, in the Bay area, DC, etc. ... real fruitcakes, Stalinists, "small is beautiful" with brains to match folks. Pitiful.

:

Is mentioning Stalinism in a thread the same as mentioning Hitler?

[scrinch]

Quote:

You used CFB's?!? My god man...how COULD you?

You just screw 'em in and watch 'em light up! Kinda messy with the fur and all, though!