Driving Becoming Dangerous - What to Do?

[harllee]

I am following this thread since my mother is age 89 and still drives. She is still healthy and has a sharp mind. I rode with her last year and she did fine. She is in a small town and does not drive much (even less now due to Covid), never at night. She is the one all her friends depend on to do the driving. We have had conversations about her driving and this issue--she is definitely aware of the problem. We help her with her insurance and a few years ago she decided to up her liability policy and buy an umbrella policy which I think is a good idea for older drivers.

 

[skipro33]

In California family is permitted to anonymously report a member who is at risk of driving. I turned my dad in when he refused to give up driving while obviously suffering from the beginning of dementia. He would get lost, especially at night, and drive the wrong way. He was so stubborn he would wet himself rather than pull over and ask for directions or even call his cell phone for assist. I'd get calls from stores that were closing asking if I could come get him because he was lost and didn't know how to get home. Etc...
Anyways, the DMV sent him a letter and forms that it was time for him to take a road test and that if he didn't come in, his license was cancelled. Dad didn't take it well. He said screw them, he'd drive anyways. Didn't care if he had a legal license or not. So I disabled his car. I posted a note under the hood as well as to why. Dad called the AAA for a start assist. The person saw the note and called my number I left on it. I told him to tow it to my place. Dad was none the wiser; thinking the guy was towing to a repair shop. I told Dad that I would drive him when ever or where ever he needed. Again, not happy but also not aware I'm being the bad guy here. He would have disowned me had he figured this out. Every time we got in my car he would rant about how his car was stolen. He forgot it was towed. I went along. One day I get a call from a dealership. Dad's there wanting to buy a car. However, his driver license comes back invalid so they won't let him. He's throwing a fit of course, so I came down and picked him up. He insisted on going to the DMV for his test to get his license back so I took him. I told the DMV tester that if he doesn't already know Jesus, he maybe should get right with the Lord before taking this road test. It was enough for the guy to fail Dad in the parking lot. Ha!
I hated to do this to Dad, but would have hated more to have him or innocents hurt or worse because I didn't step up and do what needed to be done.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

In California family is permitted to anonymously report a member who is at risk of driving. I turned my dad in when he refused to give up driving while obviously suffering from the beginning of dementia. He would get lost, especially at night, and drive the wrong way. He was so stubborn he would wet himself rather than pull over and ask for directions or even call his cell phone for assist. I'd get calls from stores that were closing asking if I could come get him because he was lost and didn't know how to get home. Etc...
Anyways, the DMV sent him a letter and forms that it was time for him to take a road test and that if he didn't come in, his license was cancelled. Dad didn't take it well. He said screw them, he'd drive anyways. Didn't care if he had a legal license or not. So I disabled his car. I posted a note under the hood as well as to why. Dad called the AAA for a start assist. The person saw the note and called my number I left on it. I told him to tow it to my place. Dad was none the wiser; thinking the guy was towing to a repair shop. I told Dad that I would drive him when ever or where ever he needed. Again, not happy but also not aware I'm being the bad guy here. He would have disowned me had he figured this out. Every time we got in my car he would rant about how his car was stolen. He forgot it was towed. I went along. One day I get a call from a dealership. Dad's there wanting to buy a car. However, his driver license comes back invalid so they won't let him. He's throwing a fit of course, so I came down and picked him up. He insisted on going to the DMV for his test to get his license back so I took him. I told the DMV tester that if he doesn't already know Jesus, he maybe should get right with the Lord before taking this road test. It was enough for the guy to fail Dad in the parking lot. Ha!
I hated to do this to Dad, but would have hated more to have him or innocents hurt or worse because I didn't step up and do what needed to be done.

I did the same thing with Dad, reporting him to the DMV. He had gotten lost a couple times, and when I watched him struggle to put the car in gear, I knew that couldn't go on.

My great aunt drove until about 6 weeks before she died at age 96. She lived alone on the old family farm at the edge of the Hiawatha National Forest. Her driving was limited to grocery runs to the nearby village.

 

[pb4uski]

you think? Idk, I worry that the same folks who refuse to give up driving are the same who won't embrace the new technology. If they aren't already calling an uber...

Fair point... probably the same ones who have Lifeline, fall but don't push the button because they don't want to "bother" anyone.

I guess my hope would be that if I go with them the first couple times so they get comfortable then they can go on their own.

 

[bada bing]

Using Uber as sole transportation is pretty cost effective if you live in/around an urban area and can plan your usage. Having a personal car is more costly than most realize.

You have my empathy. My brothers and I are wrestling with getting my 88yo mom out of her car permanently. She has gotten several traffic tickets recently given by robot cameras at intersections. They post the video with the notice of infraction. It would be humorous to watch mom running a red light if it wasn't so dangerous.

 

[Sue J]

My MIL was doing ok with operating her minivan, didn't drive at night and really only went to the drug store, the grocery store and church.

The last time she drove she left church and must have missed her turn. She kept going, thinking something would look familiar. Luckily my SIL saw her and followed her as she went farther and farther from her neighborhood. MIL drove about 20 minutes before she pulled over, quite upset. SIL was right behind her and MIL was so relieved that she was not alone! She followed SIL home and I don't think she ever drove again. She kept her minivan and talked about driving when she was ready, but it never happened.

 

[Goldendoodlebug]

About a year ago, a coworkers daughter , she was in her early 20s , was in a car on the freeway and an elderly woman drove the wrong way on the freeway and killed her. Her boyfriend was injured. The elderly woman was not injured.

My coworker had lost her husband a few yrs before to another driver who deliberately ran over the co worker and husband as they were in a crosswalk. He died, she was in the hospital and recovering for many months.

No uncomfortable conversation is worth killing someone.

 

[MichaelB]

We faced this with my mother. After she was diagnosed with mild cognitive impairment, one brother and I had separate conversations with her asking her to stop driving, then we all got together and asked again. She agreed but continued driving “short local errands”, so we enlisted the help of her physician and the neurologist seeing her. This wasn’t the first time either had done this, both did it quite nicely, and after that she stopped driving completely. The doctors made the difference.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Our senior club, at least pre-pandemic, had a door to door senior bus. Some of the local seniors centers even have free Uber for seniors when the buses aren't running. You could check into that for your area.

We live in an area with a lot of seniors. One year I think there were three different times one of them forgot to put their car in reverse and drove through the front door of a pharmacy. I have had two different seniors driver back into me as I was walking through a grocery store parking lot. One stopped when he finally heard me screaming and the other time I just had to run and leave the shopping cart, which he backed into with his car. When I told him that could have been a little kid instead of a shopping cart he swore at me and drove off. It is a real problem here.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

My neighbor is 77. We share a driveway. I have a steep curvy driveway, and I wonder when he will go over the edge. He has had 4 or 5 TIA's, and he drives himself to the Dr. each time.

Things are safe for now, as he has lost his car keys and the car hasn't moved. Since he can't drive his car, he wanders around outside in his underwear, for me and my daughter to see. I have taken photos. The M & M boxers are my favorite.

 

[PatrickA5]

My dad was 95 and realized his drivers license had expired. He was afraid to drive with an expired license, so he wanted me to take him to get it renewed. I assumed that having a 95 year old come in for a license would put up some red flags and he would be denied, but he not only got it easily, they were excited for him since it was "free"! Ha!

My out-of-town brother wanted me take away dads keys. When I rode with dad, he always did fine on his half-mile journey to the store. On the other hand, I was always scared to death to ride with my brother.

Not long after getting his license at 95, he decided to quit driving. Probably had something to do with his car not starting - due to a battery that somehow got disconnected, LOL!

 

[Amethyst]

Evidently she was still able to remember what the doctors said.

We faced this with my mother. After she was diagnosed with mild cognitive impairment, one brother and I had separate conversations with her asking her to stop driving, then we all got together and asked again. She agreed but continued driving “short local errands”, so we enlisted the help of her physician and the neurologist seeing her. This wasn’t the first time either had done this, both did it quite nicely, and after that she stopped driving completely. The doctors made the difference.

 

[CRLLS]

A little over a year ago I had a stroke and the neurologist noted that I had lost peripheral vision to my left. Since it was part of my official medical records, I knew that it could be used against me if I was ever involved in an accident, especially if the accident involved physical injury to another. I could be sued big time and have a lot to loose. Had to take a range of vision test and meet the state minimums before I felt comfortable driving again. Could your FIL pass all required vision tests?

Having been hit by a car while waking my pooch about 3 years ago, I may be more cognizant of the possibilities. The driver of the vehicle turned directly into the sun and didn't see me in the cross walk.

At 70, I avoid driving at night and if the roads are wet, I have no business behind the wheel.

DF has long since passed on. He probably could have passed a simple vision test.

Let's say his vision was impaired to his right. Even if he turned his head to the right the try and see where he couldn't before, he still couldn't see there. Very strange IMO but that's what he said.

When he hit my vehicle I asked him if he saw the vehicle. His response was no. Then I asked what if that was a neighborhood kid on a bike. He never would have been able to see the kid. It was that enlightenment that made him decide to stop driving. If it were him in the car with you in that crosswalk, no amount of turning his head back and forth would have enabled him to seen you.

 

[Dtail]

Duh, but it doesn't sound like OP is planning to force the old couple to do anything. OP wants a way to persuade them they must change. But why would they, if they like the way they're living and don't see anything wrong?

My experience with old age tells me we become extremely stubborn, and tend to deny and rationalize everything unpleasant. Either that, or become very dependent and needy. There seems to be very little middle ground.

Could be, but my DF was 87 when he made a left on red. After a discussion with me, he never drove again.

 

[ImThinkin2019]

Gradually.

For my folks, we requested they not drive certain hours/days (rush hours, night time, inclement weather, etc...). But, that meant we need to pick up driving duties at times (for dr visits on rainy days, grocery trips for that jug of milk they need this evening).

Also, there was a discussion anytime a new dent or scratch appeared on their vehicle.

FWIW, they would never have called an Uber no matter how many times we explained it to them.

Finally, when my dad could no longer drive we had an intervention of sorts. He agreed but was totally demoralized.

Thanks for this. Unfortunatly, neither of us live closer than over an hour drive from them. So we can't help them. I agree that Uber is an unrealistic stretch for them.

My dad gave up his keys after his macular degeneration got bad enough. We were talking about how to get him to stop but he did it on his own. I suspect he had a close call. Mom doesn't drive either, but they have a van shuttle available to them at their community. A lot of family live in the same town and usually one will drive them as needed. Even before COVID hit they started doing their shopping for them.

OP, is his driving bad enough that a dash cam or taking video by phone would show it? Maybe one day some of you can have him drive you around and after the drive you can watch the video together and show him all the mistakes and close calls.

A dash cam might be a great idea for both honorable admittance about who is at fault, and also it might make him realize that we are very concerned.

Can you work on your Mom? As a conversation starter, not a directive.

"We are getting too scared to drive with Dad anymore, are you? How could we go about slowly reducing his driving? I know he really prizes his driving independence, but this time comes to almost everybody. Without saying anything to him at this point, would you just try to notice his driving for a couple of weeks and let us know what you think? I know you prize your independence too, are you aware of all these new services designed to do that? We can help you set that up. What are your fears if his driving is curtailed? We really want your suggestions and input."

Thanks for this idea. Unfortunately MIL is well along the way of cognitive impairment. Short term memory gone. So we can't ask her to do anything because she won't remember what she agreed to.

It seems like this is an issue for a lot of people. Thanks again to everyone for chiming in.

 

[Walt34]

We had to deal with this twelve years ago, detailed in this thread. I had to write a letter to Maryland MVA and to everyone's astonishment he actually (barely) passed the driver's test! The issue was finally resolved a few months later when the car deteriorated to the extent that he couldn't afford the repairs and we knew he wouldn't ask for the money. Obviously we wouldn't have given it to him anyway.

But yes, it was a difficult time.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

The next time there is a thread about Underinsured Motorists insurance....please refer to this. We all need it.


Not an easy topic, but very real. Thanks for sharing. We're all be there someday.

 

[harllee]

I think it is a very good idea for all elderly drivers to have high liability insurance limits and personal liability insurance.

 

[mh]

you think? Idk, I worry that the same folks who refuse to give up driving are the same who won't embrace the new technology. If they aren't already calling an uber...

Possible. But i suspect it gives one enough of a feeling of control that I can see it working, where Uber might not. You’re telling car what to do, not “begging for a ride” .

 

[blueskyk]

About a year ago, a coworkers daughter , she was in her early 20s , was in a car on the freeway and an elderly woman drove the wrong way on the freeway and killed her. Her boyfriend was injured. The elderly woman was not injured.

This just happened yesterday in my town. “Elderly driver” (which feels a bit like “Florida Man” to me) turned into the exit ramp of the freeway and then hit another car head on once they were headed the wrong way down the freeway. Everyone to the hospital but the younger driver (age 19) appeared to be in more serious condition. Happened about noon.

My stepmom voluntarily gave up her driving after several dings and we were all very relieved. She lives in assisted living and gets along fine with their van service.

 

[PandaBear]

My dad was diagnosed with a brain tumor following a seizure. So no driving for 6 months. He was looking forward to driving again, but we could see that he wasn’t totally himself and obviously, over time, was going to get worse.

My brother had a conversation with him. He told my dad if he had an accident and hurt, or god forbid, killed someone, they could lose everything. And what would happen to my mom when he was gone? That worked, he never brought up driving again. Perhaps it was mean, but it was also true.

 

[audreyh1]

My dad was diagnosed with a brain tumor following a seizure. So no driving for 6 months. He was looking forward to driving again, but we could see that he wasn’t totally himself and obviously, over time, was going to get worse.

My brother had a conversation with him. He told my dad if he had an accident and hurt, or god forbid, killed someone, they could lose everything. And what would happen to my mom when he was gone? That worked, he never brought up driving again. Perhaps it was mean, but it was also true.

Wow - that’s very to the point and would be effective for many.

 

[youbet]

So much of this applies to other categories of high risk drivers as well as the elderly! Years ago, I tried to convince a buddy to quit stopping off for a few beers after work and then driving home somewhat impaired. I was no more successful than the examples given in this thread of folks trying to convince elderly parents to give up their keys. Even after a DUI ticket, he kept on until he caused a serious accident.

 

[JoeWras]

Does anyone have a reference to how many and/or what percentage of serious accidents are caused by older drivers who should not be driving?

I am looking for things that go beyond small property damage such as where serious injuries occur.

Ideally the reference would have this broken down by age group to show "how much more" dangerous seniors really are statistically.

I am trying to figure out if this is a rational fear or not (not the OP's, but society's in general).

-gauss

Here's a reference: https://aaafoundation.org/rates-mot...-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/

Here's a graph from article. There are more in the article. These are per 100 million miles driven. One reason it may seem to not be much of a problem is older drivers drive less. But when they do...

 

[JoeWras]

It was difficult with dad. He crashed through the garage door support post and caused damage to the building and car. After this, he insisted it was "sudden acceleration."

A few months later, we had another deep talk and he decided to give up the car. We literally sold the car 2 hours later to CarMax, before he changed his mind.

Later that year, during a sundowner dementia moment, he let his guard down and admitted to driving around for hours looking for home. He kept this to himself until that moment. I realized he got a bit scared by that incident and that led to him giving it up.

It was a few years of worry, but we got lucky in the end.

My uncle's mother wasn't so lucky. She was meeting a friend for lunch and instead of braking, accelerated and pinned her to a brick wall, killing her.