Enough - How much is that?

[lem1955]

When I was much younger, probably in my early thirties, I had a conversation that has stayed with me over time. My friend asked if I could imagine having "enough" money. And I said, absolutely, I could. She said she thought no one felt as though they had enough, that there was always more to be had, and once each milestone was achieved, the next goal would loom large. It occurs to me that this board is composed entirely of people who agreed with me. For each of us there has been a point where we said, I have enough money. We haven't stayed in touch, so I don't know if that old friend's opinion has changed. I hope so, for her sake.

 

[Car-Guy]

If you mean, how much is enough to retire, then it probably means something different to different people.... For me, it would be when I have enough NW that I don't have to work or depend on my investments to live in the lifestyle I want for the rest of my life. Assuming I won't live past 100, I'm there.

 

[street]

Interesting topic.
For me, I have enough, anyway I think I do, but those voices talking to me say, keep piling it on.

For me I ended the game but I also could of kept playing the game to add more. I think that is a gene most of us have, to get to where we are today. A little greed and never having enough is a huge motivator for the one that has high financial goals.
Just my 2 ¢.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

For me I knew I had enough when my investments were yielding more than my salary. Since I was only spending about half my salary, I stopped going to work.

 

[mountainsoft]

We're not retired yet, but I feel like we have "enough". Would more be nice? Sure. But we have enough to pay all of our bills, buy pretty much anything we want, go out for dinner and movies, and vacation whenever we want to.

We live a fairly simple life. We own a small home, drive inexpensive used cars, don't buy a lot of expensive toys, and mostly take fairly cheap vacations. We usually spend less than $45K per year, but feel like we are rich. We have enough.

 

[braumeister]

Having enough meant I could retire when I wanted to. All these years later, I still have enough.

A very long way from what I would call rich, but certainly there is enough. Isn't that what the FI part of FIRE is supposed to indicate?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

This is a battle I have with my DW fairly regularly. Well...not a battle per se, just not much in agreement. We are 100% FI according to Firecalc and have more than enough money. Nonetheless, I can't convince her to stop w*rking...she has a fear of not having "enough" which is just like her parents. They have WAY MORE than enough, but still own multiple businesses and WILL NOT STOP. They are getting up there in the years and think they are immortal.

I have lost a lot of former co-workers to cancer in the last few years and it's eye opening. What I can say (and I think others would agree) is that I don't have ENOUGH time left in this life. Do I want to live forever? Well, probably not...but I also know that the time left is finite and unknown.

Not sure what my point is...except yes, I have enough money but probably not enough time.

 

[OldShooter]

"Enough" is more about aspirations than money, IMO. We have enough, no question about it. But our aspirations do not include being competitive in Aspen society nor do they include owning a private jet.

Recounted by John Bogle: At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, the author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel "Catch 22" over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have . . . Enough.”

 

[pacergal]

I have a nice roof over my head, food in my belly, clothes on my back, money to pay the bills. Yes, I have enough.
However, prices generally keep rising, so I have to keep my investments on track to "make more" for the future.
Luckily, I don't need to go to work to earn more money.
And, thanks to this forum, I have learned much on how to keep what I have, and make a little more.

 

[Car-Guy]

Not sure what my point is...except yes, I have enough money but probably not enough time.

Maybe I really don't have enough money... If I did, I'd buy more time... But only if it were "quality" time... I don't need/want any of that just hanging around time.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Maybe I really don't have enough money... If I did, I'd buy more time... But only if it were "quality" time... I don't need/want any of that just hanging around time.

That is a good point. I suppose you can buy more time with enough money (or time that someone else isn't directing) and I think I have done that. Not too many folks out there at my age can say they have the freedom that I do and I am thankful for that.

 

[disneysteve]

For me I knew I had enough when my investments were yielding more than my salary.

I've actually struggled with this exact point.


In 2019, I earned about 240K. Our portfolio, after all spending was accounted for, ended the year 300K higher than it started.


In 2020, I earned about 240K. Once again, our portfolio ended the year 300K higher than it started.


Each year, we added 100K of new money to the portfolio out of current income. But that still means the portfolio grew by about 200K each year on it's own - more than we spent either year.


My problem is that this all occurred during a tremendous bull market. There's no way I can reliably count on growth like that each year. Our portfolio could easily drop by 200K or more this year if the market goes south.


At what point do you decide you have enough of a cushion so that even in the bad years, you'll still be okay? I guess that's the age old question we all have to answer before retiring.

 

[brokrken]

Not having an income is psychological for some people. No matter how big their brokerage account, they can't imagine not having a pay check, so there is no definition of "enough". ER folks tend to think differently. We know what "enough" is for each of our own situations.

 

[Midpack]

Interesting topic, what I consider "enough" has evolved over time, but we spent much less than we could supposedly afford according to "the Joneses" during our careers and we continue to do so now that we're retired. Most people, even some/many here, would say we can afford to spend quite a bit more - and we have loosened up a little in the last few years.

As a related aside, I noted earlier today that our current net worth is more than the sum of our total combined lifetime wages - that's probably "enough." We've been fortunate...saving, investing and compound interest are remarkable things.

 

[W2R]

Yes, like most of us here I have enough, in the sense that I have enough to live the life that I want to lead. There is a point at which one wants to kick back and enjoy life as it is, instead of wasting time on shopping/buying/etc.

I'm sure that this idea will send Madison Avenue types plummeting into a bottomless pit of despair. But no, I don't crave more money and spending; I do not long for anything material that I do not already have, nor do I dream of more international travel or other expensive experiences that are not presently part of my lifestyle.

I'd rather spend my precious time watching the birds frolic down at the boat launch, instead of researching potential BTD purchases online.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Yes, like most of us here I have enough, in the sense that I have enough to live the life that I want to lead. There is a point at which one wants to kick back and enjoy life as it is, instead of wasting time on shopping/buying/etc.

I'm sure that this idea will send Madison Avenue types plummeting into a bottomless pit of despair. But no, I don't crave more money and spending; I do not long for anything material that I do not already have, nor do I dream of more international travel or other expensive experiences that are not presently part of my lifestyle.

I'd rather spend my precious time watching the birds frolic down at the boat launch, instead of researching potential BTD purchases online.

You said what I wanted to say, but much more eloquently! In the grand scheme of things we really have TOO MUCH but in the US, it's nothing too special. The simple things are what bring me the most happiness. I can spend hours watching the birds but loathe owning a pool.

In talking to one of the hospice nurses that cared for both my Mom and Dad about "death bed confessions" he said in that over the years and hundreds of patients he cared for, he couldn't recall anyone ever mentioning that they wished for more stuff and couldn't recall anyone saying that they wished they worked more, either.

 

[Music Lover]

I earned a modest income, lived below my means, and had a pension to look forward to. So "enough" for me was the day I was able to retire without a penalty. Staying longer would have made very little difference in both pension and potential savings.

Had I been earning $200k+ a year my perspective may have been different.

 

[anothercog]

Enough for me will be 100% on Firecalc of my desired spend which will be 150% of my necessary spend.

 

[JoeWras]

Enough for us means:
- Our house, and its maintenance
- Living expenses, nothing too fancy, but a splurge dinner or such every now and then
- A modest vacation, with a big one every few years
- Room for significant charitable giving

No kids, so instead of that, it goes to charity.

Cars are replaced every 15 years or so. No desire for anything expensive.

But that's us. We have other friends who add the following, and this is OK if it is a thing for them.
- Beach house
- 5th wheel camper

Two friends really wanted the beach house. This cost them a few more years working. That's OK, their choice. My other friend went for the 5th wheel and then his DW got a serious heart issue, so it bonked him on the head and he stopped and ERd, just last week. He found himself suddenly thinking about the "next" thing beyond the 5th wheel and the health scare reeled him back from it.

 

[Surewhitey]

I've actually struggled with this exact point.


In 2019, I earned about 240K. Our portfolio, after all spending was accounted for, ended the year 300K higher than it started.


In 2020, I earned about 240K. Once again, our portfolio ended the year 300K higher than it started.


Each year, we added 100K of new money to the portfolio out of current income. But that still means the portfolio grew by about 200K each year on it's own - more than we spent either year.


My problem is that this all occurred during a tremendous bull market. There's no way I can reliably count on growth like that each year. Our portfolio could easily drop by 200K or more this year if the market goes south.


At what point do you decide you have enough of a cushion so that even in the bad years, you'll still be okay? I guess that's the age old question we all have to answer before retiring.

Almost identical situation here. Trying different wordings to get DW on board. Basically saying that "if we did not bring in anything, we would still grow our NW". Or, "we saved double our take-home and 401k savings". She'll listen one day...

 

[homestead]

Happy where we are today.
We have enough for todays world but the world is changing and who knows what the future may bring. Worst case, it is possible that never retiring wouldn't be enough.
Such is life.

 

[lem1955]

"Enough" is more about aspirations than money, IMO. We have enough, no question about it. But our aspirations do not include being competitive in Aspen society nor do they include owning a private jet.

Recounted by John Bogle: At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, the author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel "Catch 22" over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have . . . Enough.”

Yes, OldShooter. The J Heller quote is exactly what I was getting at. It's not the fiscal reality I was contemplating. It's the internal ability to be satisfied, not to just know you have enough, but rather to feel happy with what you have.

 

[Canoesmith]

Pick a number

For me, “enough” continued to move. It was never enough because more was readily available, as long as I was willing to trade time.

I picked $5M NW as enough, and once I reached that, and came to the end of another year with bonuses - I pulled the plug.

Set a number that meets the needs, and go then.

 

[disneysteve]

For me, “enough” continued to move. It was never enough because more was readily available, as long as I was willing to trade time.

There's certainly some of that, but my "number" has also risen over time as I got more focused on retirement planning and learned more from this site and elsewhere, got a better handle on what our expenses are likely to be, looked into healthcare costs, etc. The amount that I used to think would be enough turned out to be too low. Better to find that out now while I'm still working though.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I am satisfied with my life and glad that I didn’t work full time longer. If I had I wouldn’t have gotten to teach a online college class for 8 years. That’s been so fun. I am excited about buying my condo and fixing it up just the way I want it. I enjoy my kids, my friends and my doggies. I am grateful for all the traveling I have done and look forward to more. Even with my income cut in half because of the divorce I definitely have enough.