Enough - How much is that?

[Rocky mtn high]

My FIL, once told me a man can never have enough money. I ER’d at 58, 6 years ago. I guess I disagreed. I know someone now who is worth 20m and still working. I asked him, don’t you have enough? He said he didn’t have enough interests to keep him busy so he worked.

[TheWizard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky mtn high My FIL, once told me a man can never have enough money. I ER’d at 58, 6 years ago. I guess I disagreed. I know someone now who is worth 20m and still working. I asked him, don’t you have enough? He said he didn’t have enough interests to keep him busy so he worked.

This is absolutely fine.
With that level of NW, he's likely not working at an hourly salaried job but at in some sort of ownership/executive position.

Financial Independence is what matters.
After that, it's all gravy...

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky mtn high My FIL, once told me a man can never have enough money.

Anyone can keep working to pad their bank account, but those who understand the difference between "more" and "enough" are the wise ones.

[Toddtheformeraccountant]

You absolutely can have "enough" money, as long as you take your ego out of it and don't try to beat the jones's. Let's say you enough saved to have a 2% withdrawal rate and you are 60. You could work another year and drop that withdrawal rate to 1.9%. Why would you do that? Time is finite, and needs are finite, and the sooner you realize that, the better.

[Toddtheformeraccountant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky mtn high My FIL, once told me a man can never have enough money. I ER’d at 58, 6 years ago. I guess I disagreed. I know someone now who is worth 20m and still working. I asked him, don’t you have enough? He said he didn’t have enough interests to keep him busy so he worked.

AS for this one without enough interests to keep him busy...I've had people tell me, "you're going to be bored." I will be able to keep myself busy, just like I did when I was on summer vacation when in school 45 years ago.

Even if it were true that I'll be bored, why in the world would I work a job I don't enjoy for money I don't really need, just to keep myself "busy?" That seems like a sad existence.

[daylatedollarshort]

I can see where people who have really interesting jobs may not want to retire, like cancer researchers and rock stars. But the people who have jobs like mortgage broker or middle managers at megacorps, I mean seriously, they can't think of anything better to with their lives than work at those kind of jobs? Then that seems more like Stockholm Syndrome.

[Toddtheformeraccountant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort I can see where people who have really interesting jobs may not want to retire, like cancer researchers and rock stars. But the people who have jobs like mortgage broker or middle managers at megacorps, I mean seriously, they can't think of anything better to with their lives than work at those kind of jobs? Then that seems more like Stockholm Syndrome.

Well said! Exactly. Stockholm Syndrome indeed!!!

[Closet_Gamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddtheformeraccountant You could work another year and drop that withdrawal rate to 1.9%. Why would you do that? Time is finite, and needs are finite, and the sooner you realize that, the better.

Very well articulated.

I once phrased the question to my brother as "What percent of your remaining time are you willing to trade for what % growth in your net worth?"

[novaman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddtheformeraccountant AS for this one without enough interests to keep him busy...I've had people tell me, "you're going to be bored." I will be able to keep myself busy, just like I did when I was on summer vacation when in school 45 years ago. Even if it were true that I'll be bored, why in the world would I work a job I don't enjoy for money I don't really need, just to keep myself "busy?" That seems like a sad existence.

The people who continue to work even though they no longer need to are doing it for other reasons- mental and or social engagement, sense of purpose.... but I agree. I can’t imagine anyone continuing to do this in a job they don’t enjoy.

[brokrken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by novaman The people who continue to work even though they no longer need to are doing it for other reasons- mental and or social engagement, sense of purpose.

The social engagement part of it really hit home for me during Covid. I was able to continue to w*rk remotely and didn't miss a beat from that perspective. However, the day to day social interaction with colleagues and friends I really missed. So, when thinking about retirement, the social aspect of going to the office really does creep into my mind

[disneysteve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokrken The social engagement part of it really hit home for me during Covid. I was able to continue to w*rk remotely and didn't miss a beat from that perspective. However, the day to day social interaction with colleagues and friends I really missed. So, when thinking about retirement, the social aspect of going to the office really does creep into my mind

I'm not a super social person, but I do still worry about this a bit. Throughout COVID, many of my friends posted about feeling lonely and isolated because they weren't going to work. I, on the other hand, still went to work same as always so my routine didn't really change. But it certainly will in retirement.


Not only is there the interaction with coworkers, but I also see 20 or 30 patients per day and get to chat with them. And we periodically socialize outside of work with coworkers, meeting for dinner or doing an activity like an escape room or axe throwing or zip lining or whatever. Once I leave the job, it's going to take more effort to maintain those connections. It won't be as easy as a few of us sitting around saying, "Hey, let's do an escape room next week."

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort I can see where people who have really interesting jobs may not want to retire, like cancer researchers and rock stars. But the people who have jobs like mortgage broker or middle managers at megacorps, I mean seriously, they can't think of anything better to with their lives than work at those kind of jobs? Then that seems more like Stockholm Syndrome.

Once I hit my FIRE targets, I continued because I had finally achieved my goal of creating my own assignment within Megacorp. I was still just a staff level scientist living in a cube and a lab. But, I actually wanted to go in and I actually enjoyed the w*rk. The day I didn't, I retired. I wish this could happen to everyone - but of course, it doesn't so YMMV.

[Car-Guy]

A couple of friends of mine (husband and wife) asked me a similar question (how much is enough) this weekend... They are about 6 to 8 years younger than the DW and I and they are still working. From what I've learned on this site I asked them some basic questions and they shared details like NW, spend rates, lifestyles, med insurance, etc... I didn't have access to FireCal at that time but I referred them to this site and this thread. Maybe I just recruited two new members... Hey, 1 more and I get a free set of steak knives... Right?

Anyway, they have almost 2m NW and 3/4 of that was in cash but with low returns. Half is taxable. If they retired now, their two pensions would come out to ~40k a year plus SS in a few more years along with Medicare. The kicker is they don't play the market,,,, at all... Still, with no debt, a 85k planned annual spend rate it sounded like "off the cuff" they should be okay (or enough).

Anyway, I told them after they ran FireCal and checked out some threads, then maybe we could talk again, or they could sign up and ask questions here.

[ncbill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddtheformeraccountant You absolutely can have "enough" money, as long as you take your ego out of it and don't try to beat the jones's. Let's say you enough saved to have a 2% withdrawal rate and you are 60. You could work another year and drop that withdrawal rate to 1.9%. Why would you do that? Time is finite, and needs are finite, and the sooner you realize that, the better.

IMHO everyone should use the engaging-data (aka "rich, broke, dead") retirement calculator and pay particular attention to the "dead" zone.

As a guy in my 50s it notes I will almost certainly be dead in my 80s, so I don't really see retiring in my 50s as "early" retirement...guys waiting to 65 to retire are more likely to have 20 years in retirement rather than 30.

[Music Lover]

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Originally Posted by ncbill As a guy in my 50s it notes I will almost certainly be dead in my 80s, so I don't really see retiring in my 50s as "early" retirement...guys waiting to 65 to retire are more likely to have 20 years in retirement rather than 30.

But how many high quality years are really left if you retire at 65? As a general rule most people start slowing down significantly by 75...if they make it that far. Active and healthy people at 80 are not as common as some may be led to believe. My parents had several life long active friends but most of them are now dead or in assisted living homes. My parents are 82 and 79 and I do 90% of the maintenance on their house. They've lost interest in travel and really anything that requires too much effort. GF's parents are 87 and 83 and haven't been to the family cabin in a decade...except for once last summer when we took them out for the day.

[unclemick]

Beyond enough pain in the ass territory starts in the following sense, you spent a long time being frugal to get to ER. So there is a disconnect in ER if you are too successful.

Between Covid and Mr Market - our expenses have way under run our portfolio income (aka RMD) so DW and yours truly have upped this years charitable donations. Given our resources selection is required. At some point this takes on aspects of that dreaded evil - WORK.



Heh heh heh - Two cents.

[disneysteve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclemick Between Covid and Mr Market - our expenses have way under run our portfolio income

I'm sure many have experienced the same thing. I'm not retired yet but our expenses are running $2,000/month lower than pre-COVID. In our case, that's let us boost our saving even more.


The really interesting thing about all of this is it has shown us what living on $24,000/year less looks like - and it's really not so bad. If once retired, we find that we need to trim back on spending for any reason, even short term, at least we know we'd still be satisfied with our lifestyle.

[kcowan]

I am surprised by the number of people who check out of an active life after 10 years of retirement. I suppose my Dad living to 95 has left me with high expectations.

We have been retired for 18 years and just bought a new condo and adopted a new kitten. My advice is to think and act young...

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover But how many high quality years are really left if you retire at 65? As a general rule most people start slowing down significantly by 75...if they make it that far. Active and healthy people at 80 are not as common as some may be led to believe.

Agree with that 100% except from what I've seen, slowing down begins before 75 for many (maybe most)...