Expat Corner (part 2)

[Hans]

(It appears that the Expat Corner thread got locked, due to being 345 days old.)

Greetings from Bangkok, and happy Year of the Rabbit (2023)!

I accomplished the following:

My situation is that I've been stuck in LA for the whole pandemic... hoping to go back overseas sometime later this year, and maybe retire overseas permanently. Thailand and Portugal are on my radar.

I obtained the Thailand Elite Visa, left LA at the end of December, and arrived in Bangkok on January 1, 2023. I consider myself as living in Thailand now. If I feel like life is working out OK here, then maybe I'll stay permanently.

How's everyone else doing? Any news?

 

[flyingaway]

(It appears that the Expat Corner thread got locked, due to being 345 days old.)

Greetings from Bangkok, and happy Year of the Rabbit (2023)!

I accomplished the following:



I obtained the Thailand Elite Visa, left LA at the end of December, and arrived in Bangkok on January 1, 2023. I consider myself as living in Thailand now. If I feel like life is working out OK here, then maybe I'll stay permanently.

How's everyone else doing? Any news?

Congratulations! It looks like that visa is very expensive. Is it easy to get, besides costly?

 

[Hans]

Congratulations! It looks like that visa is very expensive. Is it easy to get, besides costly?

Yes, it's easy to get (easier than the more ordinary retirement visas, which are "O" and "O-A"... not that you won't get approved, just that there's some amount of bureaucracy and extra requirements to fulfill). And yes, it's costly, so a person has to decide if those simplifications are worth the cost. I decided that it was worth it to me, but different people are different.

As I understand, most people on the more ordinary retirement visas in Thailand have to deposit a similar amount into a Thai bank account (which, for US persons, may trigger a need for even more bureaucracy from the US side, e.g., FATCA, FBAR, etc.). You're supposed to get the deposit back if you stop living in Thailand, but if you stay in Thailand permanently, then you aren't getting that money back anyway (i.e., "you can't take it with you", as they say... maybe your heirs will get it, but they'll have to deal with the Thai bank).

 

[Alan]

(It appears that the Expat Corner thread got locked, due to being 345 days old.)

Greetings from Bangkok, and happy Year of the Rabbit (2023)!

I accomplished the following:



I obtained the Thailand Elite Visa, left LA at the end of December, and arrived in Bangkok on January 1, 2023. I consider myself as living in Thailand now. If I feel like life is working out OK here, then maybe I'll stay permanently.

How's everyone else doing? Any news?

Congratulations on getting the visa

Our daughter has now become an expat living here in England (moved over in November). Her house is less than a mile away although she hasn't yet moved into it as her shipment from LA has not arrived yet. Should be here within a week or two.

Like our son who moved here in 2017 she is still working, but unlike our son she continues to work for the same US company and works from home so has strange work hours as her team is based mostly in California and Australia.


BTW
The thread was not locked, just old, and there was a little checkbox you could have used to post to it. However, it was quite long so it is good that you have opened another thread with a link back to the original thread. I will now close that earlier thread to avoid confusion.

 

[candrew]

Congratulations Hans on getting that visa and making the move to Thailand. Are you currently staying in Bangkok? And if so, are you considering other locations in Thailand? Southeast Asia is on our list to visit and have a look around.

All good here with us in the central highlands of Mexico. Just returned from 2 months in the states celebrating Christmas and New Years with the kids and the grands.

Next month heading off to Europe and the U.K. to do some wandering around. Not sure how long we'll be away on that venture.

 

[Hans]

Congratulations Hans on getting that visa and making the move to Thailand. Are you currently staying in Bangkok? And if so, are you considering other locations in Thailand?

I also visited Chiang Mai. It's smaller and quieter, but I'm more of a big-city person, so I'm in Bangkok and planning to stay here.

 

[Alan]

Thanks Alan. I am still in the U.S., although the day is growing ever closer when that will no longer be the case. I have Schwab bank , and I have talked about my plans with them before and they seem fine with me living overseas and having an account with them. I will call them again to verify . I also have a debit card from Schwab to get money when I will be living overseas for living expenses.
Healthcare will be taken care of. Doing my taxes will be a little harder, but I feel I will just have to deal with it. SS for me is a little down the road. I am 50 now. I am planning on not driving again as the public transportation system is much better than the U.S. A complaint I have often stated on this forum is the dismal public transportation system in the U.S. Enough said about that.
I don't want to reveal the country I am planning on moving to yet, but plan on doing it soon. I will say there is a tax treaty with the U.S., so that is a good thing.
One thing I will add is the cost of living is much cheaper than living in the U.S., of course wages are much lower there, but I won't need to work. By the end of the year I plan on making some threads about my experience about living overseas. This is a move that I have been planning for a long time and the paper work takes forever and also preparing for it, so I can hit the ground running. It is not as easy as just jumping on a plane and then revealing to the government, oh I want to stay, how to I get a residency permit?
I guess if you have a work sponsor it would be easier, but that is not always easy, and I don't want to work anyways. In some countries in Europe it might be easy, I don't know, but in the country I am going to, it's not that easy. It's amazing that the country I am going to, requires that you provide proof of income for them allowing you to live in their country. What a concept!
To me that wasn't anything unusual. I expected it, and never thought twice about it. I will write more on this in the future.

How are things going? Still planning on a move overseas?

 

[bmcgonig]

How are things going? Still planning on a move overseas?

Now I’m going to have to spend the rest of the day trying to guess where unrealizedpotential is moving to given the clues above [emoji16]

 

[flyingaway]

Yes, it's easy to get (easier than the more ordinary retirement visas, which are "O" and "O-A"... not that you won't get approved, just that there's some amount of bureaucracy and extra requirements to fulfill). And yes, it's costly, so a person has to decide if those simplifications are worth the cost. I decided that it was worth it to me, but different people are different.

As I understand, most people on the more ordinary retirement visas in Thailand have to deposit a similar amount into a Thai bank account (which, for US persons, may trigger a need for even more bureaucracy from the US side, e.g., FATCA, FBAR, etc.). You're supposed to get the deposit back if you stop living in Thailand, but if you stay in Thailand permanently, then you aren't getting that money back anyway (i.e., "you can't take it with you", as they say... maybe your heirs will get it, but they'll have to deal with the Thai bank).

That makes sense. I hope they don't change policies with another government. I have been in Thailand many times and really like it.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

How are things going? Still planning on a move overseas?

No, I made plans but they fell through. Partly because of covid and partly due to political reasons I think. It was just tough all the way around and I never could get any traction going so I gave it up. So I will be content and happy in the good ole USA .

 

[Alan]

No, I made plans but they fell through. Partly because of covid and partly due to political reasons I think. It was just tough all the way around and I never could get any traction going so I gave it up. So I will be content and happy in the good ole USA .

Thanks for the update. These things are far from easy. Our daughter is currently going through this now, moved here last November having sold her house and completed the purchase of a new house here last month. She heard a couple of days ago that her shipment of household goods and furniture had arrived in Liverpool and should be through customs in a week or so ready for sending over.

 

[dixonge]

Finally, after double the minimum timeframe, I have received my Residente Permanente here in Mexico. Delay was mainly due to COVID and being out of country when my previous Temporale expired. Either way, I'm now in.

 

[Alan]

Finally, after double the minimum timeframe, I have received my Residente Permanente here in Mexico. Delay was mainly due to COVID and being out of country when my previous Temporale expired. Either way, I'm now in.

Congratulations.

 

[Koolau]

No, I made plans but they fell through. Partly because of covid and partly due to political reasons I think. It was just tough all the way around and I never could get any traction going so I gave it up. So I will be content and happy in the good ole USA .

I think of myself as having "cheated" in the Expat World. I moved to Hawaii - which is still the USA but it's "not America" as we think of it. Culture, food, life-style, national-origins and people groups, etc. are all so different here - in a good way! I have most of the advantages of USA living and I get the advantages of a very different culture. The cost is substantial which is, of course, one of the big reasons many folks choose ex-pat life. But unless my fortunes changed radically, I would consider the cultural expansion more important than money savings - no matter where I considered as an Expat move. It's a life-style and it's an adventure. It's not just about affordability in my humble opinion but YMMV.

 

[martyp]

As I understand, most people on the more ordinary retirement visas in Thailand have to deposit a similar amount into a Thai bank account (which, for US persons, may trigger a need for even more bureaucracy from the US side, e.g., FATCA, FBAR, etc.). You're supposed to get the deposit back if you stop living in Thailand, but if you stay in Thailand permanently, then you aren't getting that money back anyway (i.e., "you can't take it with you", as they say... maybe your heirs will get it, but they'll have to deal with the Thai bank).

I’ve been retired in Thailand for 6 years on an OA visa. The financial requirement to extend the O and OA visas yearly is to keep 800,000 baht (about $24,000) in a Thai bank account. The money is yours. You can take it out if you choose to leave Thailand. There is also an option to meet the financial requirements by depositing 65,000 baht/month ($2,000/month) and you can spend that money to zero each month. A yearly extension costs 1,900 baht ($56) each year compared to the 600,000 baht ($17,700) for a 5 year Elite Visa. I just got a 10 year pensioner Long Term Resident visa for 50,000 baht ($1,500). The Elite visa makes the most sense for people under 50 years old. The O, OA, and pensioner LTR is only available to people over 50.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

I think of myself as having "cheated" in the Expat World. I moved to Hawaii - which is still the USA but it's "not America" as we think of it. Culture, food, life-style, national-origins and people groups, etc. are all so different here - in a good way! I have most of the advantages of USA living and I get the advantages of a very different culture. The cost is substantial which is, of course, one of the big reasons many folks choose ex-pat life. But unless my fortunes changed radically, I would consider the cultural expansion more important than money savings - no matter where I considered as an Expat move. It's a life-style and it's an adventure. It's not just about affordability in my humble opinion but YMMV.

It wasn't just about the money savings for me. I would be lying if I didn't admit that was a part of it. However, that was far from the only consideration on why I tried to make the move. When I pushed it, I was told the reason things didn't move faster or in my case didn't move at all, was because I was an American.

I do not think that was the only reason why I never left the shores of America for good, but I do think that went a long ways in explaining why I will probably never leave from the USA, not that I am complaining.
ETA: I have been abroad a few times some years ago. However, when I wanted to make the move permanent some years later it was a no go. If it was the EU, I would have been accepted in all likelihood, but it wasn't. It is what it is.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I was told the reason things didn't move faster or in my case didn't move at all, was because I was an American

This is not the first time I have heard this. Thankfully we have multiple passports and citizenships. We always us one for entering other countries and only use our US one when returning to the states.

 

[Alan]

When I pushed it, I was told the reason things didn't move faster or in my case didn't move at all, was because I was an American.

This is not the first time I have heard this. Thankfully we have multiple passports and citizenships. We always us one for entering other countries and only use our US one when returning to the states.

I'm sure that if he had a passport for the country he wanted to move to that being an American would not have been an issue.

Being a US citizen may have made things go slower because of FATCA and the Intergovernmental Agreement in place.

Even 13 years after its enactment not all countries have a FATCA IGA in place.

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act

FATCA requires foreign financial institutions (FFIs) to report to the IRS information about financial accounts held by U.S. taxpayers, or by foreign entities in which U.S. taxpayers hold a substantial ownership interest. FFIs are encouraged to either directly register with the IRS to comply with the FATCA regulations (and FFI agreement, if applicable) or comply with the FATCA Intergovernmental Agreements (IGA) treated as in effect in their jurisdictions.

 

[martyp]

I'm sure that if he had a passport for the country he wanted to move to that being an American would not have been an issue.

Being a US citizen may have made things go slower because of FATCA and the Intergovernmental Agreement in place.

Even 13 years after its enactment not all countries have a FATCA IGA in place.

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act

What country was he considering? There are 113 countries on that FATCA list and an American passport gets you into just about anywhere. And sure you can stay if they have a visa appropriate for your purpose of staying.

 

[Alan]

What country was he considering? There are 113 countries on that FATCA list and an American passport gets you into just about anywhere. And sure you can stay if they have a visa appropriate for your purpose of staying.

I don’t know except he said that it was not an EU country.

 

[Hans]

I’ve been retired in Thailand for 6 years on an OA visa. The financial requirement to extend the O and OA visas yearly is to keep 800,000 baht (about $24,000) in a Thai bank account. The money is yours. You can take it out if you choose to leave Thailand. There is also an option to meet the financial requirements by depositing 65,000 baht/month ($2,000/month) and you can spend that money to zero each month. A yearly extension costs 1,900 baht ($56) each year compared to the 600,000 baht ($17,700) for a 5 year Elite Visa. I just got a 10 year pensioner Long Term Resident visa for 50,000 baht ($1,500). The Elite visa makes the most sense for people under 50 years old. The O, OA, and pensioner LTR is only available to people over 50.

Just for completeness, it should be mentioned that the above-mentioned options have additional requirements (e.g., some options require purchasing insurance that meets their criteria; some options have a proof of income requirement; etc.). Glad you found an option that's OK for you. I did the Thailand Elite Visa to bypass requirements I don't want to deal with. It's OK for me. The good news is that there are a variety of options and people can choose. The countries in Asia where I used to stay don't offer retirement visas of any kind, which is why I'm in Thailand now, instead of those places.

 

[martyp]

Yes, one year extensions of the OA requires insurance but the O does not require insurance, otherwise they are identical.

 

[Hans]

I just got a 10 year pensioner Long Term Resident visa for 50,000 baht ($1,500). The Elite visa makes the most sense for people under 50 years old. The O, OA, and pensioner LTR is only available to people over 50.

Yes, one year extensions of the OA requires insurance but the O does not require insurance, otherwise they are identical.

If I understand correctly, the "pensioner" option is the O-X visa, which has the insurance requirement.

That being said, I think the Elite Visa can make sense for people over 50 if they don't want to buy Thai-based insurance (or that's administered under Thailand jurisdiction; there are forums where the pros/cons are discussed), and they have assets but no proof of the specified income, and (if American) don't want to deal with FATCA/FBAR. I think Elite is the only option that gets you out of all of those; the downside, of course, is the cost of the Elite Visa, but I'm OK with it. Again, the good news is that there are options, and everyone can assess what's OK for them.

 

[martyp]

If I understand correctly, the "pensioner" option is the O-X visa, which has the insurance requirement.

That being said, I think the Elite Visa can make sense for people over 50 if they don't want to buy Thai-based insurance (or that's administered under Thailand jurisdiction; there are forums where the pros/cons are discussed), and they have assets but no proof of the specified income, and (if American) don't want to deal with FATCA/FBAR. I think Elite is the only option that gets you out of all of those; the downside, of course, is the cost of the Elite Visa, but I'm OK with it. Again, the good news is that there are options, and everyone can assess what's OK for them.

If you are over 50 and get a nonimmigrant O visa then you can extend that visa yearly as a retiree without insurance indefinitely.

The O and OA visa have significantly different requirements and features to obtain them but when they expire you extend them yearly. No insurance for the O. Insurance required for the OA. The cost (1,900 baht), financial requirements, and other documents required for a 1 year extension are the same. I don’t know much about the O-X. In September, 2022, Thailand introduced a 10 year Long term residency visa. The 10 year LTR is targeted to four categories of expats one of which are pensioners that have a yearly income of $80,000/year. It costs 50,000 baht for a 10 year visa and there are no requirements of money in a Thai bank. It does however require insurance though there is an option to satisfy the insurance requirement by having $100,000 in a bank. You do not have to buy re-entry permits if you travel outside the country and you can use the fast track lane at the airport which I think is similar with the Elite visa.

Anyone of any age can get an Elite visa for 5-20 years. It is particularly useful to those under 50 who have few options to stay long term unless they have a legitimate job or are married to a Thai. I have a friend in his 40’s who is here on an Elite visa. Those over 50 with an Elite visa primarily cite the benefits of not having to deal with immigration and yearly extension process each year. I got a 10 LTR visa last month (pensioner category). It is probably 2x more expensive than if I had continued extending my OA yearly but I like it for the convenience too.

 

[Hans]

I don’t know much about the O-X. In September, 2022, Thailand introduced a 10 year Long term residency visa. The 10 year LTR is targeted to four categories of expats one of which are pensioners that have a yearly income of $80,000/year.

OK, I see now that they're different categories. So there's O, O-A, O-X, LTR, and Elite (also known as PE, Privilege Entry). Alphabet soup!

As you probably know, most Americans don't have pensions, and most of the ones that do don't get nearly the above-mentioned amount. I'm in my 50s, no pension, and don't plan to take Social Security until many years from now (and it won't be nearly that amount when I do!).

Those over 50 with an Elite visa primarily cite the benefits of not having to deal with immigration and yearly extension process each year.

Those benefits didn't factor into my decision to get the Elite. The main reasons in my case were (a) having no proof of substantial income (just bank interest, etc.), and (b) not wanting to deal with FATCA/FBAR (being a US citizen). My general philosophy is that the fewer financial entanglements I have with any government (US, Thailand, or anywhere), the better. Nothing to hide, just don't like the entanglements (filling out forms, obtaining letters from banks, divulging too much information to too many people, dealing with delays and/or incompetence in both governments and corporations, etc.).

Although Elite doesn't require health insurance, I bought some anyway (not from a Thai company), because I read online that some kinds of insurance are hard to get, or much more expensive to start, after 60 or 65. And mine is portable to other countries (in case I give up on Thailand and settle in a different country later on).