Keith, thanks for your comment. Your view coincides with that of my SIL, who owns property there and just returned from a visit. Ironically, the last sentence in the linked article reads.
Expats in Mexico: is this accurate?
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Keith, thanks for your comment. Your view coincides with that of my SIL, who owns property there and just returned from a visit. Ironically, the last sentence in the linked article reads.
Danmar
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Just got back from visiting friends in Mexico ( Malinalco). We had a great time and their place ( compound) was spectacular. Once we went out the 20 ft high gate it was a different world though. I could see how many people would embrace this but not really our style. Paradise Valley in Arizona more to our tastes as expats.
MasterBlaster
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Incidents like this do nothing but stir up concern about Mexico...
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...uise-passengers-robbed-at-gunpoint-in-mexico/
Carnival cruise robbery victim: 'Is he going to shoot us all?' - latimes.com
I have been going to Mexico regularly for years now. But I don't think I'll go again until things settle down. getting robbed, kidnapped, or killed can ruin your whole vacation.
I love Mexico and it's people. As tough as things were down there for their people, things are just going to get worse as tourists stop coming.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...uise-passengers-robbed-at-gunpoint-in-mexico/
Carnival cruise robbery victim: 'Is he going to shoot us all?' - latimes.com
I have been going to Mexico regularly for years now. But I don't think I'll go again until things settle down. getting robbed, kidnapped, or killed can ruin your whole vacation.
I love Mexico and it's people. As tough as things were down there for their people, things are just going to get worse as tourists stop coming.
Lancelot
Full time employment: Posting here.
The devine Miss A, long time no see
I've enjoyed reading about your Guatamala adventures
grasshopper
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Ms G and I are going to Palomas Mexico in a day or two. Where we shop and have lunch is within sight of the border checkpoint. Ms G always says she needs to stay close enough to be able to run back to the US.
Surewhitey
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We spent 4 days exploring Merida this week. Drive time of 5 hours, uneventful to/from. Don't really recommend Merida (too big, a bit dirty). Valladolid is much more quaint... Food was awesome in both.
Regarding the corruption, just don't see it, but then, I don't go flashing my 'wealth' around... No different than any city in the states... So overblown for areas away from the big cities and border towns. Drove 2000 miles through Mexico and zilch happened.
Regarding the corruption, just don't see it, but then, I don't go flashing my 'wealth' around... No different than any city in the states... So overblown for areas away from the big cities and border towns. Drove 2000 miles through Mexico and zilch happened.
kcowan
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
There are incidents involving petty theft. During Easter and Christmas breaks, we are cautious about carrying large amounts of cash or blatant displays such as Rolex, diamonds etc. (Same as in downtown Vancouver!) Just common sense. We also drive a 1993 Explorer so we are ignored because it is one of the most popular trucks in Mexico.
A rogue bus driver took 22 passengers off course because there is a good road right to the restaurant at El Nogalito. The passengers were asked to go single file through the forest. A lone gunman held up the first 3 passengers before the rest went back to the bus. No one was hurt. It was petty theft and an inside job. One of the other passengers took the guy's picture and the authorities used it to capture the thief.
This place is 7km south of where I live in PV. There are no banditos on the road except by special arrangement (inside job). The cruise line has compensated the passengers for their losses because it was a cruise-sponsored shore excursion.
When KTLA and other camera crews intercepted the ship in Long Beach, the disenbarking passengers did not know about the incident. It was so minor that even those robbed did not talk about it to other cruisers.
So how do you feel about the accuracy of Mexico reporting now? People get killed in Vancouver every day. The latest was a shootout outside a downtown restaurant. Two people were killed. Have you heard about it. Has it been reported as a story to avoid visits to Canada?
This is a good example of the irresponsible media reporting. Read the articles and then let me tell you what really happened.MasterBlaster said:
A rogue bus driver took 22 passengers off course because there is a good road right to the restaurant at El Nogalito. The passengers were asked to go single file through the forest. A lone gunman held up the first 3 passengers before the rest went back to the bus. No one was hurt. It was petty theft and an inside job. One of the other passengers took the guy's picture and the authorities used it to capture the thief.
This place is 7km south of where I live in PV. There are no banditos on the road except by special arrangement (inside job). The cruise line has compensated the passengers for their losses because it was a cruise-sponsored shore excursion.
When KTLA and other camera crews intercepted the ship in Long Beach, the disenbarking passengers did not know about the incident. It was so minor that even those robbed did not talk about it to other cruisers.
So how do you feel about the accuracy of Mexico reporting now? People get killed in Vancouver every day. The latest was a shootout outside a downtown restaurant. Two people were killed. Have you heard about it. Has it been reported as a story to avoid visits to Canada?
MasterBlaster
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I feel like mounting dual 50-caliber machine guns on my armored Hummer.
BigNick
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When the 7/7 bombs went off in London (2005), the UK government issued worldwide releases saying "come to visit, it's perfectly safe", while at the same time the Foreign Office website lists reasons not to visit about 160 countries because some Brit got kidnapped there five years ago.
Sarah in SC
Moderator Emeritus
I read those notices from the US govt very carefully and closely, about the issues to be found in other countries and the dangers found therein, and go there anyway.
Did I mention we were planning a trip to the "stans" next summer?
Did I mention we were planning a trip to the "stans" next summer?
Leonidas
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No disagreement that the media is playing their best scary story cards with this, but I see almost daily evidence that this sort of thing is real and significant (at least locally):
The influx of well-to-do Mexicans who are moving here - as opposed to the long history of tourism here for high-end retail and quality medical care - is very noticeable.
Events in Mexico were important when I was w*rking, and we stayed informed of political and criminal activity in that country. We worked there, we worked with government officials, and we actively gathered intelligence from a wide variety of sources.
I don't think that Gringo tourists and expats are in significantly more danger than they were at any earlier time. Well, maybe a little more, depending on location. My crystal ball is broken, and so I can't predict what is going to happen, but I don't need it to know that there are changes going on in Mexico that are scary for some of the population.
Mexico is not fundamentally more criminal or corrupt than it was before (IMHO it has always been very corrupt), but the historical controls over that corruption are badly undone. A new equilibrium is being sought between the traditional power structure and the newly empowered drug cartels. The result is the shocking violence being gleefully reported by the news media.
I'm not saying I would be packing my bags just now, but a smart person pays attention to what goes on around them. What would concern me, if I were living there, is that a number of that small elite group of folks who have always had all the money and power in Mexico feel compelled to leave. There's never been much of a stabilizing middle class in Mexico, and if the educated rich people that are heavily invested in Mexico start abandoning the ship I would consider that a sentiment gauge worthy of attention.
As in if I were a Gringo rat on the Mexican ship, and saw all the Mexican rats going over the side, I would wonder what they knew that I didn't know.
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wargames
Dryer sheet wannabe
We have family in Mexico also. They go through Laredo, Texas, and You have 2 routes, the old roads, or the new Toll way. We take the new Tollway, it is $20.00 per toll and there is 5 of them. The Mexican Military is everywhere, because they want the tourist to come back. Last year a neighbor brought a New Chevy Silveraldo, $35K truck, and one day got a knock on the door, they said "Were here to pick up the truck", The neighbor said "What are you talking about?" They said "Give us the damn keys". Nothing you can do. We keep all our money in Texas, and withdraw once a month or two. You dont want to leave any money in a Mexican bank.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
This is so clearly true, as it has always been true wherever there is an economically and often ethnically distinct upper/moneyed class and a large but poor lower class. Remember when the Malays rioted attacked and poillaged the Chinese in Indonesia some years back when they country was destabilized when Suharto fell?
The relatively moneyed Gringo expats make a logical target; Yanquis in Mexico did poorly in some earlier Mexican upheavals.
To me the "I feel safe argument" is very weak. Often we feel safe until we don't, then boom!
Surewhitey
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That's why you don't buy a new truck and stand out here... If I recall, those are also some of the most stolen vehicles in the states, right?
If you blend in and don't try to look rich, you're better off. People here want you to blend in just like the states want these to do when they go north.
I was just thinking back to my first 2 years in a quiet area northwest of LA when I personally know 2 people who got car jacked by gunpoint and one got the crappie kicked out of him. Mexico is feeling safer every day...
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kcowan
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I love my 1993 Explorer (owned since new with 99k miles on the clock). One of the sacrifices for my new lifestyle. Even DW has given up wearing her jewels. But then, she probably would have anyway. It is part of the FIRE lifestyle.
As for Mexicans moving north, I don't know any. The sons of my friend from GDL live in the US where they graduated but my friend enjoys it here. Are you sure that they are not moving for opportunity?
When the PRI gets elected this year, the war on drugs will be over (PAN intiative) and the flow of drugs to the US will resume unhindered. This will cause a significant reduction in stories and improved tourist flows.
(And the resumption of police corruption like in Arkanasas.)
As for Mexicans moving north, I don't know any. The sons of my friend from GDL live in the US where they graduated but my friend enjoys it here. Are you sure that they are not moving for opportunity?
When the PRI gets elected this year, the war on drugs will be over (PAN intiative) and the flow of drugs to the US will resume unhindered. This will cause a significant reduction in stories and improved tourist flows.
(And the resumption of police corruption like in Arkanasas.)
meierlde
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I read those notices from the US govt very carefully and closely, about the issues to be found in other countries and the dangers found therein, and go there anyway.
Did I mention we were planning a trip to the "stans" next summer?
One should ask the state department to prepare notices using the same metrics on the US. Clearly for example parts of some cities would be as dangerous as parts of Mexico.
Just for grins here is the UK statement on the US for UK persons visiting (the part on crime)
"Safety and Security - Crime You should bear in mind the following:
- Do not leave your door open at any time.
- Avoid wearing expensive jewellery and carrying valuable items in run down areas.
- Do not sleep in your car by the roadside or in rest areas.
- Avoid leaving items on display in cars.
- Try to stay on main roads and use well-lit car parks.
- If hit from behind while driving, indicate to the other driver to follow you to a public place and call 911 for Police help.
Violent crime related to the drugs trade is a major issue in the Mexican states along the border with California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas and travellers by land to Mexico should note that we advise against all but essential travel to Ciudad Juarez, where there is a high level of drug related violence and criminal activity.
In addition, on 15 July the US Consulate in Ciudad Juarez issued the following Emergency Message for US citizens: "Information has come to light that suggests a cartel may be targeting the U.S. Consulate in Ciudad Juarez or U.S. Ports of Entry. In the past, cartels have been willing to utilize car bombs in attacks. We ask American citizens to remain vigilant".
We therefore advise against all but essential Mexican-US border crossings in Ciudad Juarez at this time and will continue to monitor the situation and update as necessary. British Citizens should remain extremely vigilant at all times.
Though some foreign nationals have been among the victims in the border region, there is no evidence to suggest that they have been targeted because of their nationality. Visitors to border areas should exercise caution and follow the advice of local authorities.
Violent crime, including gun crime, is not limited to the border areas. Incidents rarely involve tourists, but visitors should exercise caution when travelling in unfamiliar areas. Research your destination before travelling and seek local advice about areas with high levels of criminal activity."
Leonidas
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Nassim Taleb wrote a whole book about that. Remember the parable about the turkey on the farm? Life from his perspective was a string of 999 days of getting fed and being happy. All that changed when it met with the farmer's perspective on day 1,000 - the day before Thanksgiving - as he came into the barn with an axe in his hand.
Some people have the perspective of living there and feeling safe. My perspective is that there has been a noticeable, and dramatic, increase in rich Mexicans that have moved and brought a lot of money with them.
Different perspectives on the same situation.
Who knows what the outcome will be. So I don’t offer a conclusion, nor even a guess as to what will happen in Mexico. My view is that a good number of Mexicans of power and influence are looking for the exits, and I think that significant.
If I owned property in Mexico this would be something I would pay some attention to. IIRC Taleb’s book on Black Swan Events started out with a story about his family’s experiences in Lebanon during the civil war there in the 70's, and the dangers of being complacent, not seeing alternative views, and failing to be robust enough to survive BSEs.
That depends on what you mean by opportunity.
These are not illegal immigrants risking life and limb to come north for a job. These are millionaires coming here to find a haven for their money and their families. These are the people who can use their money to buy opportunities - like E2 visas for temporary residence and EB5 visas that come with permanent residence.
"Mexicans investing in America" - Austin Business Journal, Oct. 21, 2011
That’s not the working class coming here to find the streets paved with gold; it’s the ruling class bringing their gold with them.
What does a working class guy do when somebody comes and demands the keys to his new pickup truck? In Mexico, if he likes living, he hands over the keys.
What does a business owner do when he is targeted for similar extortion? He goes to the police:
Just like anywhere else in the world. Except this is Mexico during a time when the police can't protect themselves, much less anybody else.
When the police can’t protect him what does our business owner do? In Mexico, if he likes living (and wants to hang on to his money), he seeks opportunities elsewhere.
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Google “wealthy Mexicans moving to {Austin, or Houston, San Antonio ,Dallas, San Diego, or Miami}" and you’ll read about what we’re seeing here on the receiving end.
Woodlands a haven for Mexican entrepreneurs - Houston Chronicle
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[FONT="] Drug war sparks exodus of affluent Mexicans - The Washington Post
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Mexico's woes bring businesses, jobs to DFW - Dallas Business Journal
Woodlands Sees Influx of Wealthy Mexicans
More investing their way to visas - Houston Chronicle
I look at the numbers of businesses opened, homes bought, new students in private schools, and I wonder just how many rich people does Mexico have? And if, or when, most of them have moved to Texas - what happens to Mexico? We're talking about a country with not much of a middle-class, and a huge under-class without many of the skills useful in running a modern democratic state and/or a capitalist economy.
There are opportunities here: The economy is doing well, there is a large Spanish-speaking population that is becoming more affluent, there is a demand for capital investments, and we're giving away permanent residence to rich dudes who start businesses and hire people, etc.
But there are other "opportunities" as well: Our justice system is fairly effective, relatively honest and efficient, and doesn't suggest people drive for the nearest foreign border if they've been threatened.
Kidnapping is a rare crime here, the local Wal-Mart is not the subject of a hand-grenade attack, we don't see headless bodies of our journalists hanging from freeway overpasses, the army is not fighting gunbattles in the streets of our country, and usually the only kind of "extortion" that a factory owner has to worry about is labor threatening a strike if they don't get a raise.
So which set of opportunities is at play here? Carrot? Stick? Both?
If I were a rich Mexican, I would see a lot of attractive opportunities in the U.S.
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audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
We have a lot of wealthy Mexicans relocating to our area of South Texas and several restaurants as well moving north of the border. That's how I heard about the "Investor Visa". It's providing quite a boost to the local economy not to mention some nice new restaurants.
And locals tell me this is a completely new thing. We've had tons of Mexican tourism in the Valley before, and that continues. But not significant relocation of wealthy Mexicans or their businesses.
Audrey
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wargames
Dryer sheet wannabe
Do you know Mexico is the 5th Richest County?
REWahoo
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Can you provide a link to your source of this information?
grasshopper
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I suspect that wealthier Mexicans are getting a little more anxious. I bought 2 new pairs of glasses at my favorite Palomas Mexico Optometrist, "US bank checks no problem, I have an account in the US that I deposit into." Our favorite mercado The Pink Store would bill you in Peso's for lunch, inexpensive tequila, and mexican chotchkie's. I always take my Cap One CC for no currency transaction fees. No more billed in $. We watched the Deming School District bus pull up to the border checkpoint and unload children who than walked across to the border into Mexico.
Last Friday we came home from dog agility class, at our gate was a UDI with no pack. Here where I live if the mexican hikers have no pack, they are dope smugglers. Vamos I say, the two dogs run to the gate, I grabbed my truck gun, and off he goes. I watch him pick up a pack at a Emory Oak where it had been stashed. Later the Border Patrol picks him up. He has 10 lbs of flour, 10lbs of rice, 2 gallons of water a sleeping bag and binoculars. He had been spotting for the drug mules that are invading our country. Scary for Mexicans, who can't own a gun, just a day in life for me.
Last Friday we came home from dog agility class, at our gate was a UDI with no pack. Here where I live if the mexican hikers have no pack, they are dope smugglers. Vamos I say, the two dogs run to the gate, I grabbed my truck gun, and off he goes. I watch him pick up a pack at a Emory Oak where it had been stashed. Later the Border Patrol picks him up. He has 10 lbs of flour, 10lbs of rice, 2 gallons of water a sleeping bag and binoculars. He had been spotting for the drug mules that are invading our country. Scary for Mexicans, who can't own a gun, just a day in life for me.
NW-Bound
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Need disguise!
wargames
Dryer sheet wannabe
I forget who told me that one day and it has stuck with me. I got on line, and Germany is the 5th richest. They said that Mexico has lots of oil. I was wrong. I know one thing, if someone post facts, they better be right with this group. Because you guys are good.
Maybe when all the Mexicans go back home, with American Muney, they will be #1.
