Family abuse of seniors

[Spock]

Some of the comments in the linked thread
https://www.early-retirement.org/for...es-102152.html
suggesting that family members are the most frequent abusers of seniors kind of struck a nerve.


While there are a lot of manipulative, greedy family members
there are also a lot of sons and daughters being advised by Drs, lawyers, bankers, elder care atty's, and elder care consultants to do the following:
* "hide his accounts", "take his money and put it where he can't find it"
* "take him grocery shopping and then instead dump him off at the assisted living facility"
* "therapeutic lying" - similar to telling a 3 year old the candy machine is broken so they can't have any today.
* "take over all his finances, drain his checking account, and cancel his credit cards so that he does not have access to any funds to pay his exploitative home health aide"

Viewed from another angle, all of those activities would appear to be "greedy family members ripping off dear old dad", when in fact that is what the professional elder care community is advising us to do.


While it matters if the appropriated funds are then used for the care of the senior or the family members instead used it to buy a boat, without hearing both sides of the story it is a completely wrong picture to assume that families forced into "tough love" to care for a senior are ripping them off.


The same goes for families that don't visit their parents once placed in a facility. When dear old dad tells anybody and everybody that they never want to talk to their son again, its kinda hard to voluntarily go spend a Sunday afternoon with them.

Sorry for the rant.

[gwraigty]

Thanks for posting the other side of the story. I remember walking down a hospital corridor once and an elderly patient shouted at me through the room door something like, "Get me out of here!" His perspective appeared to be that he was being held against his will, which may have been the truth, but was probably necessary.

[Teacher Terry]

Unless the senior has dementia they should be allowed to live how they want without interfering.

[dm]

It cost my dad quite a bit because we did not realize his girlfriend was cleaning him out. She then put him out of the house and claimed that he had given everything he owned to her.

It took us two years and lawyer fees to at least get back some of his property and assets. We did win the case, but it was hard on dad as he has dementia and really felt taken advantage of.

He is now in a very nice assisted living home and is happy. And he has enough to stay there. There probably won’t be anything left for my sister and I, but that is fine with us.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry Unless the senior has dementia they should be allowed to live how they want without interfering.

The trick is the line where they are wanting to give all their money to some new online lover and where they are being scammed out of everything.

Being a bit suspicious, intrusive, with ONLY caring intent is probably the best kind of relative.

[T-Minus]

DW’s grandmother was being cleaned out of all cash by various staff at her first assisted living facility (cleaning people, hairdressers, etc.,). We put an end to that by making sure she had gift cards to places she went (i.e. Safeway, Costco, etc.) instead of cash. When we discovered that her jewelry was missing as well, we moved her to another facility - which turned out to be a blessing. While not high in monetary value, the missing jewelry was a sad sentimental loss.

[Amethyst]

When someone is a danger to himself, but refuses to go to a facility and complacently expects 24/7 attention from family members...what other choice is there but to deceive him into the facility?

Family members need to look out for themselves. A demented elder's demands become as all-encompassing as an infant's, and harder to meet.

[Teacher Terry]

A, once someone has dementia you can force them to move. However, it’s smart to protect their assets. However, if they just are old, cranky and stubborn you can’t force them and shouldn’t be able to.

[candrew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst When someone is a danger to himself, but refuses to go to a facility and complacently expects 24/7 attention from family members...what other choice is there but to deceive him into the facility? Family members need to look out for themselves. A demented elder's demands become as all-encompassing as an infant's, and harder to meet.

Some seniors with cognitive impairments can be a danger to others in addition to themselves. I was t-boned by an elderly woman with cognition issues. She left the scene of the accident and drove home while I followed her in my damaged vehicle. She then proceeded to assault the police officer upon answering her door.

The police report indicated that DMV refused to renew her driver's license yet she still owned a vehicle and was uninsured. According to neighbors, she routinely drove her car that had an expired registration. I spoke with her son on the phone in trying to settle damages on my vehicle and he admitted knowing that his mother should not be behind the wheel.

[Spock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry A, once someone has dementia you can force them to move. However, it’s smart to protect their assets. However, if they just are old, cranky and stubborn you can’t force them and shouldn’t be able to.

Actually, no you can not force them to move. At least not here.
Per the elder law atty:
1. a court order to place them in a facility is just a piece of paper. There is no one to enforce it.
2. police will not get involved in removing a dementia patient from their home (police here won't even respond to theft calls unless the crime is still in progress).
3. Even a dementia patient who is a ward with guardian/conservatorship can still change POAs and estate documents if they are able to a) identify their assets (ex. house + checkbook) and b) know who their immediate family is. Google "testamentary capacity". The ONLY thing that keeps this in check is the ward not being aware they have this capability... if their lawyer advises them of it all bets are off.

[NotYourAverageJones]

I have a book recommendation if you have an aging parent who is in need of elder care or suffers with Dementia like my mother does. It was a HUGE help for me. Got it on Amazon its title: "Mom and Dad We Need to Talk" by Cameron Huddleston

As for those with Dementia, it isn't just the person with Dementia who is suffering! Many times it's the suffering of the family members that tends to be ignored or downplayed. It's an awful thing to go through. It's sad, it's draining on everyone, the younger kids included...You feel helpless, angry, resentful, sad, unappreciated, confused...Then there is the overwhelming guilt that sneaks in and smacks you around some times...Just so many emotions to count and they can all appear at once. God bless anyone who is a caretaker of a person with Dementia. I can only hope we find a cure for this cruel disease!

If you have a good book recommendation, please let me know. I am open to learning anything new to help ease this process.

[Spock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotYourAverageJones I have a book recommendation if you have an aging parent who is in need of elder care or suffers with Dementia like my mother does. It was a HUGE help for me. Got it on Amazon its title: "Mom and Dad We Need to Talk" by Cameron Huddleston As for those with Dementia, it isn't just the person with Dementia who is suffering! Many times it's the suffering of the family members that tends to be ignored or downplayed. It's an awful thing to go through. It's sad, it's draining on everyone, the younger kids included...You feel helpless, angry, resentful, sad, unappreciated, confused...Then there is the overwhelming guilt that sneaks in and smacks you around some times...Just so many emotions to count and they can all appear at once. God bless anyone who is a caretaker of a person with Dementia. I can only hope we find a cure for this cruel disease! If you have a good book recommendation, please let me know. I am open to learning anything new to help ease this process.

Guilt is a big one. We have an inch thick folder of proof Dad shouldn't be living alone, and yet the idea that I have to take my Father to court(!), lie to him, etc just to protect him makes me sick to my stomach.



And then there is the uplifting experience of having your father call you a liar and tell you "I don't know where I went wrong raising you".

[NotYourAverageJones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock And then there is the uplifting experience of having your father call you a liar and tell you "I don't know where I went wrong raising you".

I am so sorry. I have been there and it kills me. My mom called me so many horrible names, told me I am not welcome in her house. It was awful. All I can do is bite my tongue and take a deep breath.

Often I find myself going back to remember all the good times we had, knowing that this mean person that shows up isn't "my mother" she's just what's left after this disease stole her away.

So, I try not to take all the mean stuff she says to heart and still show love and compassion, even when I dont feel it. That is easier said than done and it still hurts, but "my mom" wouldn't have ever in a million years said these things to me. It's the disease talking, so I just try to focus on that. God bless you.

[Teacher Terry]

When a couple we were good friends with faced a similar situation because the husband was dying of cancer and he couldn’t care for his wife with dementia it was very challenging to get her to agree to a home. His son was willing to take him in while he was dying but didn’t want to deal with the step mom. He was on hospice so I used the social worker to convince my friend she had no where else to go. The husband wanted to pay us to take her in but we had already sacrificed 2 years of our lives keeping them in their home. I actually thought I was going to have to give her some Xanax to get her to go but she reluctantly went when she realized it was that or being homeless. Really a stressful time.

[REWahoo]

My niece and nephew had to resort to subterfuge and deceit to get care for their mom (88), who was clearly suffering from dementia. An example - she had drove her car shopping, forgot the way home, ran out of gas on the side of the road 25 miles away and was been found by the police 36 hours later (think Silver Alert). Although this was the most extreme example, she had done something similar on several different occasions. In spite of all sorts of unsafe and irrational behaviors like this, she not only refused to move to assisted living, she refused to see a doctor for fear she would be diagnosed as "crazy" and lose her independence.

Seeing no other solution, her two children found their mom a very nice assisted living apartment and worked with the facility manager and a physician to trick their mom into visiting the facility and allowing the doctor to evaluate her mental state. They did this by nephew taking their mom out to brunch one morning and running into a "friend" at the restaurant, who joined them at their table. The friend explained that she managed a new, upscale apartment complex which she would really like them to see.

The manager invited them to come for a tour which they did. As the tour was underway, nephew slipped away to meet his sister at mom's house where movers were loading their mom's furniture to move into the assisted living apartment. Meanwhile, the tour continued and the manager introduced mom to a "medical student" who was there working on her degree. The medical student spent some time getting to know mom then asked if she would do her a favor and let her practice giving a basic medical exam - which she did.

End result, mom spent the day meeting and talking with other residents (my SIL is very outgoing and chatty) and the was shown her new apartment, complete with her own furniture. No, she was not happy.

That was 10 months ago and she still asks nephew to take her home some days but most of the time seems to like her new friends. Her overall health has improved via better nutrition, while her dementia is gradually worsening.

Niece and nephew have feelings of guilt over what they did (kidnapping?) but know their mom is much better off because of their actions.

[Teacher Terry]

The sad thing about my friend is that she went downhill quickly from depression. Within 2 months she no longer recognized us and within 6 couldn’t talk, feed herself and was wearing diapers. Thankfully her cancer came back and killed her.

[spncity]

Because of long distance, logistics, and the personality of the strong-willed elderly adult - a relative hired a professional interventionist to accompany him and his BIL to extricate his mom from her home and the people who were scamming her out of her life's savings. He doubts that it could have been accomplished without this experienced interventionist/psychologist... If you want the name, PM me.

Now she's in memory care assisted living.

These things are not easy to do when the parent's brain is broken. And it's not easy to see a loved one go downhill.

[mountainsoft]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dm It cost my dad quite a bit because we did not realize his girlfriend was cleaning him out... He is now in a very nice assisted living home and is happy. And he has enough to stay there. There probably won’t be anything left for my sister and I, but that is fine with us.

My mom had cut off contact with family for over 20 years. We didn't know it at the time, but she had several strange people con her into letting them live with her. They didn't pay any rent and they stole most of her belongings. When she had a stroke and we saw the house for the first time in 20+ years it was trashed and anything of value was gone. Of course, her close "friends" never contacted her again once we moved her to an assisted living, even though I sent them her address and phone number.

Mom made me her power of attorney and I now handle all of her finances. With the cost of her assisted living she'll be broke in about five years and will need to apply for Medicaid. She wastes a lot of money, but I figure let her enjoy it while she still has it. Being strict with her spending would only delay Medicaid a few months anyway. I certainly won't receive any inheritance, but I wasn't expecting it anyway.

Sadly, while it's nice to have mom back in my life, we really have nothing in common. If she didn't rely on me to take her grocery shopping every week or two, I think she would go back to her old ways and have no contact with me. Sometimes it hurts to just be her personal Uber driver and have the responsibility of tending to her finances, but it is what it is.

[John Galt III]

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Minus DW’s grandmother was being cleaned out of all cash by various staff at her first assisted living facility (cleaning people, hairdressers, etc.,). We put an end to that by making sure she had gift cards to places she went (i.e. Safeway, Costco, etc.) instead of cash. When we discovered that her jewelry was missing as well, we moved her to another facility - which turned out to be a blessing. While not high in monetary value, the missing jewelry was a sad sentimental loss.

My mom loves the place she is living in. A continuing care retirement community. But, as you say, the staff can be sleazy and rip off the seniors living there. Often she doesn't notice it, but even if she does, she doesn't want to make anyone mad by mentioning it. Most egregious example : some medical tech working at the ccrc, probably as a third party vendor (vulture), got my dad to start exercising on a tread mill. My parents thought it was free. Then they get a bill for it ($1,500 !! ). Med tech acted innocent (right....) and suggested my folks submit the bill to insurance. Insurance denies it, of course. My mom ends up paying the ripoff bill in order to not have anyone mad at her. I found out about it after the fact. I am constantly on the lookout for any such ripoffs now. And I've let the staff know I am watching.

[Dtail]

Hate to say it, but some of this stuff sounds like a case to support the set up of an irrevocable trust, which we have for our parents for about half their monies.