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Old 07-08-2021, 10:45 PM   #21
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Am I the only one who has no clue what BTD stands for?

Bored to Death?
Before the Dawn?
Born to Drink?
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Old 07-09-2021, 12:31 AM   #22
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Blow That Dough
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Old 07-09-2021, 04:37 AM   #23
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Many compute WR as a percentage of the total portfolio value on 12/31 of the year before.

I think that once we retire, a lot of the "spend spend spend!!!" need seems to lessen. At least it did for me so I am thinking maybe that is the case in general.


This makes sense to me. A percentage of remaining portfolio, especially if itís only 3 or 4 percent will leave a lot of money on the table.
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Old 07-09-2021, 09:07 AM   #24
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We went through two serious remodels (two different places) post retirement. That was definitely BTD territory. Since turning 70, we have physically slowed down and stopped most BTD behavior. Our health is clearly declining but mostly we just have no desire to do "major" travel or to buy "stuff." We realize it's time to get rid of stuff instead of add more.

Covid hit and spending took a nose dive. I don't see much increase now that Covid is moderating except we are beginning to go out to eat again. Now, our BTD is focused on charities and kids. YMMV
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Old 07-09-2021, 10:00 AM   #25
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Am I the only one who has no clue what BTD stands for?
No, you are not the only one.
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Old 07-09-2021, 11:36 AM   #26
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This makes sense to me. A percentage of remaining portfolio, especially if itís only 3 or 4 percent will leave a lot of money on the table.
Probably.

My 50/50 models showed that even 4.35% of current portfolio annual withdrawals will still break even by leaving, on average, the starting portfolio inflation adjusted after 30 years, and half in the worst historical cases. You do have to contend with variable income every year. Variations cab be significant, so itís better with mostly discretionary expenses.
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Old 07-09-2021, 12:06 PM   #27
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When did you see your BTD trend line start to turn down (if it has)?
After 16+ years of FIRE (zero earned income), our spending is up in real terms. I don't keep detailed records but in broad categories, here are some examples:

1. We're outdoorsy types and have been feeling our age with some of our activities. That means more staying at full service, but remote, resorts and fishing camps and less camping or renting cabins.

2. Knowing your remaining time to visit friends, see things you've wanted to see, etc., is drawing to a close likely means picking up the pace and not being concerned about costs. DW just returned from a 10 day trip visiting a girlfriend who retired to the Maine coast for example. When younger, she would have more likely given consideration to the expenses involved for flights, rental car, etc. Now she just goes.

3. We've been taking our camper down to Florida for a couple months the past few winters. That was quite inexpensive. Now we're shopping for a snowbird home down there which will likely be significantly more expensive whether we rent or buy.

4. Our urge to do remodeling and repairs ourselves has faded. Hello handyman, landscaper and professional decorators.

5. Trips to the liquor store and grocery are less likely to be driven by what's on sale.

6. Spoiling grandchildren (including help with college tuition) has become a passion.

7. Etc. Etc.

Now, I realize that we're fortunate that even in our mid-70's we haven't slowed down enough physically to start throwing in the towel on activities. When that happens things could change. But at this stage, it definitely costs us more to live the life we want to live than it did a decade ago.

YMMV
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Old 07-12-2021, 09:15 AM   #28
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My dad just entered the state senior Olympics for the 10k bike ride for 85-89 year olds. So there's that data point.
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Old 07-12-2021, 09:42 AM   #29
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googily--that is wonderful, yeah for your Dad!


We have no BTD plans for now, thinking of updating the kitchen again, but with little GK running around, bumping into things with cars, etc, will wait.
We have a budget that is more generous than when we were working, so I already feel like we are BTD now! We buy what we want and don't worry about it.
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:02 AM   #30
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I'm about to hit 72 next year, and the ole RMD's will make you withdraw 4% of the Y/E balance yearly.

Of course you don't have to spend it, but having the $ separate of the 401K might drive one to take another trip to Europe or on a few cruises.

We had some unexpected spending increases upon ER when a car, boat and camper had to be replaced. Our old ones just wore out. Then we ended up moving twice. But we're good to go for quite sometime with no more capital expenditures.

We're still not through seeing the world, and we plan on extensive travel for the next 8-10 years. Right now, it's the wife's mobility slowing us slightly, but she has figured out how to travel very well with her electric scooter to supplement her.
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:21 PM   #31
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No, you are not the only one.
Blow That Dough!
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:38 PM   #32
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I'm about to hit 72 next year, and the ole RMD's will make you withdraw 4% of the Y/E balance yearly.

Of course you don't have to spend it, but having the $ separate of the 401K might drive one to take another trip to Europe or on a few cruises.

We had some unexpected spending increases upon ER when a car, boat and camper had to be replaced. Our old ones just wore out. Then we ended up moving twice. But we're good to go for quite sometime with no more capital expenditures.

We're still not through seeing the world, and we plan on extensive travel for the next 8-10 years. Right now, it's the wife's mobility slowing us slightly, but she has figured out how to travel very well with her electric scooter to supplement her.
Nice to hear.
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:39 PM   #33
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My dad just entered the state senior Olympics for the 10k bike ride for 85-89 year olds. So there's that data point.
Excellent.
Generically, that is my hope to play Pickleball until 90 y.o.
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:03 PM   #34
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Now that I’ve improved my metabolic health, I’m paying a lot more attention to the western chronic diseases including dementia and how they can be avoided.

So I’m hoping we are healthy and active for many years yet. Knock on wood!
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:16 PM   #35
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I haven't started the blow that dough phase yet. I think I can comfortably do that when I reach millionaire status. I hope to make a large purchase then. In the meantime, I'm working on my health so that I can actually enjoy it when I get to it. I'm 57, just retired 7 months ago.
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Old 07-13-2021, 08:50 AM   #36
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While I don't think that he ever uses the phrase "blow that dough", if you're looking for insights into how spending and lifestyles have changed over the course of a long retirement, you can't do any better than reading posts by imoldernu. Here is a link to an older thread that has been updated over time, and there are more posts that you can delve into.

https://www.early-retirement.org/for...ent-62251.html
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:11 AM   #37
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While I don't think that he ever uses the phrase "blow that dough", if you're looking for insights into how spending and lifestyles have changed over the course of a long retirement, you can't do any better than reading posts by imoldernu. Here is a link to an older thread that has been updated over time, and there are more posts that you can delve into.

https://www.early-retirement.org/for...ent-62251.html
Yes, imoldernu is our Paton Saint of FIRE here. By now, he is probably looking down on us and chuckling about our various foibles but cheering us on to BTD (in moderation, of course. ) YMMV
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:43 AM   #38
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I've never BTD, never will BTD but I do like BTD= Big Tomatoes Delightful
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Old 07-16-2021, 05:58 PM   #39
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When did you see your BTD trend line start to turn down (if it has)? What triggered the change? How much did your average annual spend drop?
My husband is 7 years older than me and will be turning 70 this year. He has had several health issues so I am in the no-go phase at age 63 and not too happy about it. I retired at 59 and really didn't plan on being a caregiver at this young age but such is life. I definitely recommend taking care of yourself and BTD while you can!
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Old 07-16-2021, 06:17 PM   #40
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We retired in 2020 and I never felt the BTD feeling. We can’t travel where we wanted to because of COVID (masks on planes and don’t want to get stuck in other countries if something else goes down) and will not drive to a destination more than 8 hours away.

1100 foot cottage we live in is brand new and simple- a true downsizer. We don’t want to put any more money into it as we don’t think it will be worth it. After selling our other big house and buying this one, and after all the expenses associated with both, including morning twice, we basically broke even- made no extra money.

We’re living off savings until we can collect SS at age 70. We are 65 and 67. No pensions.

We live in a vacation area and we do a lot of free things like easy hikes, walks, beaches, pool, fishing.

We eat out more and have spent more money going to some events than when we worked by a landslide but not as much as other people here. We are not real active types. Not into playing tennis or pickle ball or spin cycling or golf or kayaking. We like riding bikes but we haven’t spent the money to buy them. Plus, so many hills here - not to mention we won’t ride on busy roads- we’d have to drive to the flat trail to use them ( hence also needing a bike rack) and plus in winter they would sit in the garage.

Lots of neighbors have boats and golf carts. Not us. Boats and marina costs too crazy. Golf carts will make us lazy and we need to walk as much as possible.

There’s nothing wrong with our 2013 Honda and 2016 Hyundai SUVs and now that we’re not commuting to work and we’re not putting all that mileage on them they should last a very long time.

I guess I don’t know how to BTD.
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