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Old 01-05-2019, 05:07 PM   #1741
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I used to be an avid player but have fallen off in recent years.

Then today, I turn on the TV and I'm like, "What the heck?" I was seeing all sorts of rules broken. Or so it seemed.

Oh, I just got the memo, huge changes! A quick review seems like most are common sense, like penalties for accidental touching.

As for the pin in hole rule... A few weeks ago, I also happened onto an old tournament from the 50s (I think) and they were putting with the pin in the hole! I guess this simplifications is kind of a back to the future kind of thing.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:19 PM   #1742
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Did you play @ KK?

Wish I was there.
No, at the wind tunnel, Maui Country Club.

Another good thing about the pin rule. I always thought the old rule was unfair-if I told you to tend the pin, and you didn't take it out on time and my ball hit the pin, it was a penalty on me. Never had that happen, but never seemed right.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:45 PM   #1743
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It just seems silly though that the pin must be in or out but can't be tended. If someone wants it tended why can they have it tended.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:49 PM   #1744
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Another good thing about the pin rule. I always thought the old rule was unfair-if I told you to tend the pin, and you didn't take it out on time and my ball hit the pin, it was a penalty on me. Never had that happen, but never seemed right.
With the old rule I don't believe it was a penalty on the putter in all cases, it depended on what the intent was of the one tending the flag. In some cases the penalty is on the putter, other cases it's on the one tending the flag, and in some cases they both get penalized.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:52 PM   #1745
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It just seems silly though that the pin must be in or out but can't be tended. If someone wants it tended why can they have it tended.
You can still have the flagstick tended.

Quote:
2019 Rule: Under Rule 13.2a(2):

There will no longer be a penalty if a ball played from the putting green hits a flagstick left in the hole.
Players will not be required to putt with the flagstick in the hole; rather, they will continue to have the choice to have it removed (which includes having someone attend the flagstick and remove it after the ball is played).
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:53 PM   #1746
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Good to know. I thought I had read something somewhere that that you couldn't do that anymore.
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:32 AM   #1747
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Good to know. I thought I had read something somewhere that that you couldn't do that anymore.
It is now complete choice. Freedom.

More freedom: You also now have the freedom to continue to play with a club you bent after throwing it at that tree.
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:30 AM   #1748
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I’d rather have someone tend the pin, and pull it within 15 feet or so - I wouldn’t want it just left in ever. On long putts unless it’s clear I’ve hit it too hard, I want it pulled to avoid any chance of the pin keeping the ball out of the hole. I don’t want any chance of missing the occasional long putt because of the pin.

BUT, I haven’t talked to my golf buds about it, and I’ll go with the flow. If they all leave it in, I’ll do the same unless I’m close enough to pull it myself. I realize on long putts it’s unlikely I’ll hit the pin anyway. And though I support any attempt to speed up the game, I don’t think the pin was in the top ten reasons for slow play anyway.
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:46 AM   #1749
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According to an article by Dave Pelz, it's a no brainer to leave the pin is on all putts.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:07 AM   #1750
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OK, glad I'm not crazy. The vintage tournament I saw recently was before 1968, but after 1956. During this period, you could leave the pin in. Arnie Palmer apparently was very fond of that, according to some things I've read.

This guy has a straightforward web site detailing the rules changes over the centuries. It hasn't been updated for 2019 though. But you can check your (un)favorite rule for changes through time.

Historical Rules of Golf
Quote:
The 1952 code restated that striking an unattended flagstick from anywhere carried no penalty in match play, or from over 20 yards from the hole in stroke play. Striking the flagstick or the person attending it from within 20 yards carried a 2 stroke penalty.

1956 Rule was rewritten. Now the responsibilities and penalties fell to the player, and match and stroke play were treated the same. Two strokes or loss of hole if the player's ball struck the flagstick or the person attending it. No penalty for striking an unattended flagstick from any distance.

1968 penalty of loss of hole or 2 strokes for hitting an unattended flagstick with stroke from the putting green.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:49 AM   #1751
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According to an article by Dave Pelz, it's a no brainer to leave the pin is on all putts.
Probably true on the courses he plays. Where I play the pin isn’t always straight upright, or on windy days it leans a lot and putting into the wind would result in the pin holding the ball out. I assume we’ve all seen shots that hit the pin and bounced away that probably would have gone in without the pin, however infrequent. To me there’s no downside to tending, all upside. But again, I realize the pin won’t matter on most putts over 10 feet for me at least. I’ll take my cues from the guys I play with. At Kapalua this week it seems most touring pros are not leaving the pin in, though some are - time will tell.
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:04 PM   #1752
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https://www.golf.com/Instruction/201...le-change-2018

Here's a recent article by Pelz. The science is in. Even Bryson, the ultimate scientific player, is leaving it in.

Still, I think an unintended consequence may be slowing play as everyone is now going to be frigging with the pin.
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:36 PM   #1753
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If the pin is not leaning I would just as soon leave it in. I imagine most of the guys I play with will have a tough time breaking the habit of pulling it out so that will be fine too. I'm not going to tell someone to put it back in just for my putt. Sometimes we don't all get to the green at the same time so for speed of play if I'm on the green I will go ahead and putt(if away). It will be nice just to leave the pin in and the rest can do whatever they want with it.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:59 PM   #1754
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We played Saturday... we often left the pin in on some longer putts mostly as a convenience of not having to have someone go over and take it out... otherwise didn't impact play be to be honest we were not thinking about it too much.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:00 PM   #1755
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I assume we’ve all seen shots that hit the pin and bounced away that probably would have gone in without the pin, however infrequent.
And there are the putts that might have gone 8 feet past but hitting the flag killed some momentum...even if it doesn't drop, it's more likely to end up closer to the hole. At times my lag putting is so bad I'll take all the help I can get...
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:31 AM   #1756
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Major Changes

Here's good overview of the new rules from USGA.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:28 PM   #1757
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Played Monday and we kept the pin in the entire round and didn't see any difference in scores. At best it might save a person a stroke or two a round at best. On the upside though, it did speed up play as everyone agreed before the round to keep the pin in. If there was a tilting flag stick, someone still tended it to keep it upright and straight. Next year this won't even be a discussion issue.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:42 PM   #1758
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Played Monday and we kept the pin in the entire round and didn't see any difference in scores. At best it might save a person a stroke or two a round at best. On the upside though, it did speed up play as everyone agreed before the round to keep the pin in. If there was a tilting flag stick, someone still tended it to keep it upright and straight. Next year this won't even be a discussion issue.
I played a couple of days ago and one guy rolled in a long putt would have certainly dropped, but hit the stick at that perfect speed and was rejected. Otherwise I thought it was great, especially when one guy could putt, while others are walking back to cart for a different wedge or something. You can just roll it up there and if you get lucky, no penalty.

the only issue I have with it is that I was always taught to lay your unused club on the stick so you wouldn't walk off without it. That's going to be a problem for me I think.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:47 PM   #1759
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the only issue I have with it is that I was always taught to lay your unused club on the stick so you wouldn't walk off without it. That's going to be a problem for me I think.
The habit I learned was lay it on the edge of green on a path you will take to your cart or path to next hole. Not as good, but maybe next best thing.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:02 PM   #1760
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The habit I learned was lay it on the edge of green on a path you will take to your cart or path to next hole. Not as good, but maybe next best thing.
yep...that's what I was working on.
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