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Old 11-20-2020, 07:54 PM   #61
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It's been 8 years since I pulled the plug. Most of my then peers are still working. They have bills to pay, they're just not ready, they wonder what they would do all day, etc, etc. Don't you get bored, they ask?

I was 63 then and most of my peers are now 70 or above. Most of them should be financially secure. (Lawyers). Many of them have no hobbies.

I love not working. The list of reasons why is almost endless. Sometimes it would be nice to have a little more disposable income because I hate to go into principal, but then I think it won't make much difference in the long run. Our kids will inherit a bunch of money when we die.

Being retired without any major financial issues is wonderful. Keep making your own lists of how grateful you are for the blessings you have.
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:55 PM   #62
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Yeah, I heard a lot of that sort of thing, too -- "I couldn't retire, I wouldn't know what to do with myself all day." Never could identify with that myself. I always have more things to do than time to do them.

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Also, there is a sense of accomplishment as you check items off the list.
There you go. That makes 10.

Plus,

11. God was the OG list maker. Making lists is being like God. In the beginning was the list, and the list was good.
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Old 11-21-2020, 04:48 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by 67walkon View Post
It's been 8 years since I pulled the plug. Most of my then peers are still working. They have bills to pay, they're just not ready, they wonder what they would do all day, etc, etc. Don't you get bored, they ask?

I was 63 then and most of my peers are now 70 or above. Most of them should be financially secure. (Lawyers). Many of them have no hobbies.

I love not working. The list of reasons why is almost endless. Sometimes it would be nice to have a little more disposable income because I hate to go into principal, but then I think it won't make much difference in the long run. Our kids will inherit a bunch of money when we die.

Being retired without any major financial issues is wonderful. Keep making your own lists of how grateful you are for the blessings you have.
Wow, I think back to 70 and can't even imagine still w*rking at that age. My w*rk wasn't particularly physically demanding but just going in to the grind everyday would have driven me over the edge at that age. Naturally, YMMV.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:45 AM   #64
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One thing that motivated me was early on, was I never wanted to be the oldest person working at the end of my career. Now I spend well over 250 days a year in the outdoors fishing, hunting, hiking and enjoying nature. I needed to retire early so I could still be able to do the physical activity it requires. I just hope I can keep up as time goes bye.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:55 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by 67walkon View Post
It's been 8 years since I pulled the plug. Most of my then peers are still working. They have bills to pay, they're just not ready, they wonder what they would do all day, etc, etc. Don't you get bored, they ask?

I was 63 then and most of my peers are now 70 or above. Most of them should be financially secure. (Lawyers). Many of them have no hobbies.

I love not working. The list of reasons why is almost endless. Sometimes it would be nice to have a little more disposable income because I hate to go into principal, but then I think it won't make much difference in the long run. Our kids will inherit a bunch of money when we die.

Being retired without any major financial issues is wonderful. Keep making your own lists of how grateful you are for the blessings you have.
In the white collar professions, on balance doctors and lawyers appear to work longer than many others.
Not sure why.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:58 AM   #66
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In the white collar professions, on balance doctors and lawyers appear to work longer than many others.
Not sure why.
Ya, never thought about that but everyone I know, that is the case. Must be smarter then most. Lol
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:01 AM   #67
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Ya, never thought about that but everyone I know, that is the case. Must be smarter then most. Lol
Or not smarter. lol
Perhaps many of them work for themselves and don't have to put up with as much BS.
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:13 AM   #68
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In the white collar professions, on balance doctors and lawyers appear to work longer than many others.
Not sure why.
Having worked with a lot of these folks, I'll venture some guesses:

1. Their identity is closely linked to the image of being a doctor or lawyer, and they find it hard to give up the intangible benefits that come with that (feeling valued, prestige, people looking up to them, being treated with respect, etc). Also, they've worked so long and hard to be a doctor or lawyer, they find it hard to let that go. It is a very big part of who they are.

2. They find their jobs intellectually stimulating/challenging and socially fulfilling, and they don't want to give that up.

3. They've often been so busy with their jobs and families that they have had very little time to discover other interests or hobbies. They wonder, "What would I do with all that free time?"

4. High living expenses. If you're a doctor, you'll feel peer pressure to live a certain lifestyle that matches your colleagues. Keeping up the Dr. Joneses, so to speak -- big house, nice cars, lavish vacations, private schools, etc. Plus you've got the trophy wives (or trophy husbands, I guess?) driving up expenses.

5. Alimony and child support payments to two or maybe three ex-wives. I remember a brief Saturday Night bit from decades ago. It was an ad parody, with all these dolls or action figures, each representing a certain profession. There was one figure that was a surgeon. The line I remember was, "Third wife optional." That's been true in my experience. I've known a lot of docs doctors who made really poor choices in romantic partners (e.g., very attractive borderlines), then got burned/soaked during a divorce. Those divorce costs and child custody payments can add up.

6. They feel like they're useful and making an important contribution to society, and they don't want to stop.

7. I'd also add that some doctors and lawyers don't make nearly as much as some people imagine. Yeah, there are some with half a million salaries, but I've also known primary care docs who are barely squeaking out a living. So they may not be in a position to retire.
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:59 AM   #69
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In the white collar professions, on balance doctors and lawyers appear to work longer than many others.
Not sure why.
Most of the doctors I know who work well into their 60's have jobs that give them a lot of control over their time. Often they sub for other doctors or work oddball hours others don't want. Need two weeks in April? Arrange it and go. One guy I know works two 12 hours days in the ER, then is off the other 5 days of the week.

None work serious life and death type of situations (other than the ER guy). No need to tell a patient to make out his will, quickly.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:02 PM   #70
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Great list!

Unless I missed it, I’d like to add the ability to take a nap whenever I want to.
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Old 11-21-2020, 04:47 PM   #71
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I have found that I can't survive with mental stimulation and challenge. My work specialty does exactly that. I tried retirement briefly about a year ago, because I wanted more control over my time and I had a toxic-boss situation. I found crossword puzzles and sudoku's to be a weak substitute at best. So when a job offer came along after a few months, I took it.

Covid and the ability (requirement!) to work-at-home has been a godsend for me.

The question of whether I should have retired last year became moot last month, when my former office returned to in-person work.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:07 PM   #72
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In the white collar professions, on balance doctors and lawyers appear to work longer than many others.
Not sure why.
My former Primary Care Doc (now a "hospitalist") got upset with me during a visit. I mentioned a couple of issues I was concerned about during a routine visit (I thought that was what the visits were for - to express concerns and receive feedback on, for instance, blood tests.) Doc (who was about 55 at the time) spent 15 minutes (I'm not exaggerating) explaining that he could not make money checking out multiple concerns within a visit. He went into how he was still paying off his school loans, paying for his mortgage, and on and on and on. He finally suggested that, if I had multiple concerns that I make multiple appointments with him. I suggested that he simply charge more for the appointment (schedule more time.) He said that wasn't possible. I got a new Doc and he got a new j*b.

Still paying loans in mid 50s may well be why Docs stay so long. I'm not sure if my Doc was typical or not so YMMV.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:28 PM   #73
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Being a doctor isn't what it used to be. Managed care, student loan debt, diminishing reimbursement rates, increasing bureaucratic oversight and administrative interference, increasing paperwork or computer documentation demands, additional regulations and ever-changing policies mandating CYA or expose yourself to lawsuits, more fears of getting sued, increased costs of liability insurance, increased attention to physician behavior (watch your tongue or get reported), high productivity requirements, short visits, etc.

Not to mention skeptical, self-educated patients like me who give them a hard time.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:38 PM   #74
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...

Still paying loans in mid 50s may well be why Docs stay so long. I'm not sure if my Doc was typical or not so YMMV.
Another anecdote that may support this suspicion. Friend of mine is a [retired] orthodontist. He's mentioned numerous stories of others in his field who can't retire because of their spending habits from their sky high income, be it high end cars, high end homes, lavish vacations etc. Nothing wrong with any of this if one can afford it, but plenty wrong if the goal is to retire and such spending impacts the retirement savings.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:13 PM   #75
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Oddly found myself thinking about this tonight driving back home after 2 hours of vigorous Racquetball. Two statements resonate:

"I will spend the rest of my life waking up every morning and asking myself, ' what do *I* want to do today?'"


And,



"There are no more Sunday nights....."
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:31 PM   #76
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"There are no more Sunday nights....."

There is always Sunday night football to look forward to!
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:32 AM   #77
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This morning I read about hedonic adaptation, which is the phenomena where your mind adapts to change and you return to your normal, baseline levels of happiness. It happens with good things and bad. For example, people who become paraplegic are back to normal levels of happiness in about a year. So are lottery winners.

I figure the same can be true of retirement. One way to counteract that is to remind myself of the positive benefits of retirement -- both the good things about it, and the bad things that I've escaped. So I made a list for myself. It's just off the top of my head, nothing formal, and I'm sure I've left things out.

But I figured I'd share it, in case others might find it interesting. Note, this is my list, so it's tuned to me and my personality. Everyone will have their own list.

Anyway, here's my list of the good things about being retired:


1.When you’re retired, you have more time to devote to modifying the 40% of happiness that depends on intentional choices (thoughts and actions). That’s your leverage point. Happiness does require work of a sort, and being retired gives you the latitude to think more about this, focus on it.

2.All the freedom and free time you have, now that you don’t have to go to work anymore. With all that free time that has been opened up, you are now free to do whatever you like.

3.You have more time to eat well. This contributes to better health, mood, and energy.

4.You have more time to cultivate better thinking habits. Negative drift is somewhat natural for me, so I need to cultivate good attitude and realistically positive thinking, while damping down out the negativity that inevitably sprouts up. This takes time and attention. Retirement affords more of that, and it’s resulted in a better attitude – a healthier, more positive internal climate.

5.You have more time to cultivate friendships. Granted, this hasn’t been easy with the plague and all, so it’s more potential than actualized, but when things return to normal, it’ll be there.

6.More time for stimulating intellectual activity. When you were working, most of your mental energy got eaten up by work tasks. Now all of that energy is available to focus on learning whatever you like. You enjoy a life of ideas, and retirement enables a more stimulating and varied intellectual diet.

7.More time to develop your spirituality. This is very important; I won’t belabor why. Again, this is one of those things that is more potential than actualized, so far, but it is an important value and goal for the future.

8.You don’t have to get up to an alarm clock or according to an external schedule anymore. You can get up when you like, go to sleep when you like, and take naps in the middle of the day if you like (which I do all the time). So, no more days ruined by sleep deprivation – up late because my mind is churning, up too early because of some work stressor, dragging through a day with deficient sleep. That’s a big contributor to health and happiness.

9.You can interact with people you choose to interact with, rather than the people you are obligated to interact with, because of your job.

10. You can enjoy the weather, rather than being stuck inside in an office.

11.More opportunity to explore creativity and projects that are interesting to you, because the majority of your energy isn’t going to work.

12.The wonderful relief that comes from not having to do things – no obligations, no burdensome duties, no “have to’s.” There is a big sense of relief and ease in that.

13.You’re more free to be yourself, to live authentically – to be who you are, to follow your own interests, to say what you think. At work, you are restricted by your career and professional role. You have to stick to the rules. You have to limit your behavior because you have to be concerned about professionalism, reputation, ramifications of someone getting offended or whatever, role boundaries, and even the threat of litigation. Without all those concerns, I feel so much freer to be just who I am.

14.More time for physical activity. That contributes to health and happiness.

15.More time to explore new hobbies. More time to discover new joys in old hobbies.

16.More time for reading. More time for building wisdom and knowledge.

17.More time to devote to friendships, including animal friendships.

18.You can stop and randomly talk to people without worrying about the time you’re spending on it, or what you have to do next. There is a relaxed pace to life. You can just do things for as long as you like, without worrying about it.

19.The ability to not take life so seriously, to just lighten up. The work environment was a fairly serious one, with important consequences at stake, and a lot of push and pull, multiple big agencies involved, sometimes lawyers, egos, and money. Now I don’t have to worry about any of that.

20.Less stress, less worry. That’s a big benefit. Stress of course negatively impacts health, so stress reduction means more health and happiness. It’s a more relaxed lifestyle, by far.

21.I don’t discharge work tension by getting into arguments on the internet, which often came back to bite me in one way or another.

22.The constraints and pressures of work occasionally, several times a year, made me seek relief or mental vacation in alcohol or weed. That desire just isn’t there anymore.

23.More time to commune with the birds and the squirrels.

24.You can tackle projects you put on the back burner earlier, because of lack of time (e.g., home improvements).

25.I can’t over-emphasize the sense of freedom angle. I am high on reactance, so any form of obligation and “have to” produces feelings of constriction and irritability in me. Work was the main source of that. Without work, I have a very expansive feeling of freedom and spaciousness in my life.

26.More time to work with my own thoughts and attitudes. A lot of my mental energy used to go to work. Without work, I have a lot more time and energy to reflect on my own mental processes – attitudes, thoughts, feelings, reactions – and to work with these things internally to improve them. A lot of people don’t do this because they just don’t have time. But this contributes directly to happiness and satisfaction.

27.I can explore what my city has to offer. I didn’t have much inclination to do that, when I was working.

28.More time for adult education classes or discussion groups.


Then you can think about all the negatives you’re no longer subject to…

29. No longer having to deal with lawyers and the threat of deposition or even litigation.

30.No more having to deal with professionals with big egos, narcissism, obsessive compulsive traits, and defensiveness.

31.No longer having to deal with referral sources who have their own personality issues and act out themselves. Same with some bosses and colleagues.

32.No longer having to be the bearer of bad news all the time. No need to push against resistance all the time.

33.No longer being lied to, right to my face, all the time.

34.No longer having to deal with limited resources coupled with high expectations.

35.No longer have to be in a career where political correctness is increasingly taking over. No longer have to worry about offending people’s fee fees. No longer have to worry about being “psychologically correct” in your language, so to speak. No longer have to worry about staying within professional role boundaries. Can just let it all hang out, baby.

36.No more meetings that are a waste of time.

37.No more annoying work requirements that are a waste of time.

38.No more lip service administrative support coupled with no follow through.

39.No more attempts to search for the truth amidst people who don’t want to tell you the truth, for various reasons.

40.No more colleagues trying to make themselves look good or jockey for position/status. No more people on power trips or the petty little power plays or ego strutting.

41.Much lower income tax. No SS tax.

42.No more having to live in that very conventional, restricted world.

43.More time for family, friends, and neighbors.

44.I can waste time without feeling too bad about it.

45.I actually waste less time now – because when I worked, the stress would lead me to seek a relief valve, which often took the form of time-wasting distractions.

46.No worries about losing my job, since I don’t have one. A lot of older people have lost their jobs during the plague. I don’t think that would’ve happened, but at least this way I don’t have to worry about it.


Ok, back to the pluses:

47.More time to get outside and enjoy nature. That’s important.

48.More relaxed drives. Bumper sticker: “I’m retired, go around.”

49.More ability to enjoy small pleasures. A lot of these are no big deal – just 1’s or 2’s on a 10-point scale – but they add up. You have more time to create these moments and attend to them.

50.More walks in the neighborhood. More walks in the park.

51.More time to research nutrition and health. More time for medical checkups.

52.My dog has more fun and lives a better life.

53.The squirrels and birds I support have a better life.

54.The people I come into contact with usually meet a more relaxed and friendly person than they would have before – less tired, less preoccupied, more positive, more open.

55.It probably means more years added to my life.

56.However many years I have left to live, they will be better years than if I’d continued working. My quality of life will be higher. I will be happier and more peaceful.

57.Since I’m able to interact with neighbors more, I get more a sense of community, more a sense of being rooted here. That contributes to satisfaction as well.


#’s 34-40 are about to make me pull the trigger.
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:43 AM   #78
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Well, that's even better for us list-makers, then. We are truly made in the image of God, the original Maker of Lists.

I forget what Charleston Heston did exactly, but he transcribed them, right? God didn't burn them into the stone tablets with laser beams, did He? I thought Moses did it with a chisel. Which is some pretty hardcore list-making (or list-transcribing) in itself -- not the wimpy paper-and-pen method we moderns use.

Maybe I should chisel my list of 59 Good Things About Being Retired on stone tablets. I'm thinking it might have a similar impact on the world as the Ten Commandments did.

Nah, that sounds like too much work on my part. I think I'll take my dog for a walk instead.
According to the Bible (from Wikipedia)
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And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tablets of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. 13 And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God.

— First mention of the tablets in Exodus 24:12–13
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Old 11-28-2020, 09:21 AM   #79
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It's been 8 years since I pulled the plug. Most of my then peers are still working. They have bills to pay, they're just not ready, they wonder what they would do all day, etc, etc. Don't you get bored, they ask?

I was 63 then and most of my peers are now 70 or above. Most of them should be financially secure. (Lawyers). Many of them have no hobbies.

I love not working. The list of reasons why is almost endless. Sometimes it would be nice to have a little more disposable income because I hate to go into principal, but then I think it won't make much difference in the long run. Our kids will inherit a bunch of money when we die.

Being retired without any major financial issues is wonderful. Keep making your own lists of how grateful you are for the blessings you have.
I also love not working... Nothing beats having almost total control of your time to create things, enjoy books, get outside to hike, goof off with friends, and- best of all- doing nothing at all whenever I want to!!!

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In the white collar professions, on balance doctors and lawyers appear to work longer than many others.
Not sure why.
I've already lost some doctors due to moving or retirement, so I chose a pcp who is in her late 40s, I'd say. I'm hoping she doesn't ever move!

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#’s 34-40 are about to make me pull the trigger.
That's mostly what did it for me- pointless activities serving other peoples' silly needs. That, and DH reminding me we have enough to live to over 120.

Hard to argue with either.
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Old 11-28-2020, 01:07 PM   #80
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I also love not working... Nothing beats having almost total control of your time to create things, enjoy books, get outside to hike, goof off with friends, and- best of all- doing nothing at all whenever I want to!!!



Totally. This can't be overstated. I absolutely love not having to go to work.
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