Goodby Florida

[katfish]

I've been hooked on an ER in Florida since the 90's..Having some family on the east
coast I've had a chance to see most of the state including the keys in the 70's
when it was laid back and living was cheap...In the 90's I found the central west coast
of Florida..beautiful...If you like the outdoors, and I do, I was home...Anyway I
bought a nice canal front lot in Crystal river..Today its for sale because its value
went through the roof and if I did build a modest home ,taxes would kill me..
I guess I could afford to live inland , I have a brother who does, but for me Florida
is all about water after that its desert..So now I guess its NC or maybe SC, still
I know I'm going to miss kayaking and fishing year around on Crystal river..

 

[Dawg52]

I was in Gulf Shores, AL a few days ago and I saw houses for sale everywhere, all with hefty price tags. One person I talked to said she is paying $5,500 per year for insurance on a house worth $410,000. A little out of my league. I guess with hurricane season on the horizan and insurance cost out the roof, many are trying to bale.

Good luck with your plans Katfish.

 

[Martha]

I just read an article (WSJ? BW?) about property taxes in Florida. Florida taxes non-residents a lot more than residents. Also, because of restrictions on increases in taxes, new home buyers or builders end up paying a lot more than someone with a comparable home who has lived in it for a long time. Much like California.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

according to macdaddy's post on other topic calif is way more advanced than fla. here when we inherit the family home we are forced to sell because we can't afford the taxes.

in fla the law is known as "save our homes." on such homesteaded properties, they can only raise taxes based on an assessment that increases by the inflation rate or 3% (not sure if it is the higher or lower of that).

without this and with the bubble many of us would have been forced to sell already. the tax on my house is $1,100. if i sold today the new owner would pay more than $10k.

so on the one hand it's relatively cheap for me to stay put. on the other, posters like brewer12345 are scaring me into selling out early.

 

[brewer12345]

so on the one hand it's relatively cheap for me to stay put. on the other, posters like brewer12345 are scaring me into selling out early.

My comments mostly pertain to speculators, those intending to move soon, and those who have repatedly done the cash-out thing. If you can afford your home as-is and have no interest in moving any time soon, all of the housing market nonsense is academic, especially with a capped property tax increase (I'm jealous). But I would suggest that you are going to be paying a lot more for homeowners insurance in coming years. Frankly, anyone near the east coast/GOM/earthquake zones will be paying more.

 

[renferme]

is all about water after that its desert..

Actually, there are thousands of lakes inland, so you can be on the water - fresh water ! Being on the coast subjects you to the hazards of hurricanes, inland is not nearly as risky.
But, IMHO, Florida is not for me... too much traffic, the state is green, but compared to the Northeast, it's a drab, dirty green, cost of living has skyrocketed in many areas. I'd rather go to AZ, although the cost of living is high there now.
So, I guess I'll just stay in Pa, and vacation in places like AZ during the winter.

 

[polloloco]

There is plenty of good kayaking in the Carolinas and Virginia.
New River, Chatooga River, Nantahala River, Ocoee River; all with class 1-6 rapids.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

My comments mostly pertain to speculators, those intending to move soon, and those who have repatedly done the cash-out thing.

ya, thanx for clarifying. i'd gotten that. sorry. i was just kidding. also i don't scare so easy especially after i've already looked under the bed.

though i am concerned having so much at stake, both my overly expensive house and the way way overly expensive house i'm about to inherit. i was planning to stay put for 6 more years before i trade this landlocked unit for a floating one. and i'm toying with keeping mom's house as expensive as that might be on the off chance that prices go up. but i guess that's hardly a diversified portfolio and so maybe i'll have to sell something.

florida prices are still down from late 2005 but still up from early 2005. i think depending on where we sit at the end of 2006 will determine whether or not i follow katfish to carolina.

& ps, our wind insurance is going up another 16% this coming year. bummer.

 

[brewer12345]

& ps, our wind insurance is going up another 16% this coming year. bummer.

I hate to tell you this, but based on what I see in the insurance industry, the homeowners of FL are going to see double digit rate increases for years, and it may be difficlt to get coverage at all in some places. God help you if you get tossed into the Citizens pool...

 

[youbet]

brewer.....

Do you think there is any possibility that "pools" will be adjusted so that homeowners in lower risk areas will be aggregated with the high risk folks, like those in the Florida hurricane alley?

A while back, our local press was mentioning the possibility of increased homeowners rates here in the midwest because we'd be made part of pools in high risk areas to help those folks out.

Just BS?  Or possibly some truth to it?

 

[Dawg52]

I heard on the news just the other day that Mississippi's insurance commissioner will be considering a proposed rate increase of nearly 400% for the coastal area. It's my understanding that he will be listening to arguments, for and against, withing the next couple of weeks. Lord have mercy. If I lived on the coast, I would be looking at getting the heck out of there. I'm 180 miles off the coast and the last 2 hurricanes have caused a lot damage even this far up. I may move one day if it keeps up. 

http://www.wlox.com/global/story.asp?s=4835047&ClientType=Printable

 

[bobbee25]

We have a $380K home in Florida, homeowners insurance is $900 a year. Taxes are capped once you apply for the homestead act, so they can only go up as much as the cpi or 3% a year, whichever is less.

If you sell and buy another house then you pickup the taxes as new. But they are still less than up north and then capped. So some folks have a 15 year old mansion and are paying $1000 a year in taxes. If they sell and but another mansion, there taxes are at the latest value, which might be $3000 or $4000.

If they buy a million dollar home, what do they expect.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

God help you if you get tossed into the Citizens pool...

already swimming in that along with most everyone i know. wind insurance here currently runs about $1400 per 100k.

If they sell and but another mansion, there taxes are at the latest value, which might be $3000 or $4000. If they buy a million dollar home, what do they expect.

tax on a million dollar home here is $23,400 and buys only a minimansion on a dry lot if that.

someday south florida will be home only for the very rich.

 

[macdaddy]

according to macdaddy's post on other topic calif is way more advanced than fla. here when we inherit the family home we are forced to sell because we can't afford the taxes.

California's proposition 13 is a sweet deal... for some people...

Here's an example from a street close to where I lived...

http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?city=SAN DIEGO &state=CA&zprop=16952987

The lady who lived in that house had been there forever (late 60s I think). The house sold in Feb for $850k. In 2005 she paid... wait for it... $567 in property taxes. Under proposition 13 the maximum increase is 1% and it isn't tied to inflation at all. So her max increase would have been... 5 bucks and 67 cents. And the year after that... 5 bucks and 72 cents... you get the idea. If the law stays as it is now, in the year 2050 she (or her kids) would have paid around $878 in property tax. And there are a lot of houses like that on the street. Since my basis is around $3000 I will be at $4500 in the year 2050...

The folks who paid $850k for her house will owe around $8500 in taxes (1%). I think she died and her heirs really needed the money, and that's why they sold. Most of the time, the kids move back into the house.

And to add insult to injury for non-native Californians, the houses can be passed down a lineal line any number of times, AND the 'tax exemption' can be rolled over into another property... 1% max and not tied to inflation... Sounds like a much better deal than Florida.

It really does depress inventory, as nobody wants to sell. I think if I return to that house in 20 years, the streets will be mostly filled by the kids I grew up with, living in their parents houses. If you aren't in the system yet so to speak you can always find an old childless couple and have them adopt you before you buy their house... then presto you have the exemption (adopted kids count) and you can roll it over to some other house you want... not sure if that's fraud or not.

 

[katfish]

I believe, when I looked into it, taxes on a 300k home on the west coast of Florida
would run you in the $6'000 range...some counties a little less some more....I've
been paying about $2,000 a year in South Jersey but we are scheduled for a reval.
and I expect, due to my location by the bay, to be paying much more...but not
$6,000....

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Florida real estate is nothing short of amazing. I thought it was a little peaky before two years ago when the 5 hurricanes in a row hit. My first thought was "well, that oughta knock the prices down a bit".

Shows what common sense and real estate pricing have to do with each other

 

[Brat]

Now I understand why there are so few homes that come on the market in the Bay area!!! On the other hand, that is probably the only way long time middle income residents stay in the area.

Help me understand this California property tax process... I buy a house for $500,000. Year 4 I buy another home for $1M which takes a year to remodel, investing another $200,000. Year 5 I sell the first house for $700,000 and move into the second house.

[$ are for example only, not actual $$]

What happens to the property tax 'roll-over'?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

California has two not particularly well known "propositions" besides prop 13...

Proposition 60 allows anyone over the age of 55 to sell their home and purchase another home of the same or lower value and roll over their property tax basis. This property tax basis rollover can only be done once in a lifetime. Under this proposition, the sale and purchase must be in the same California county. Note that if either member of a couple has ever done a prop 60 transfer, they've 'tainted' the other spouse and they cant take it again.

Proposition 90 allows people 55 and over to move to different counties within the state and to take their property tax basis with them provided the two counties have such a property tax rollover agreement.

Only Alameda, Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, San Mateo, Santa Clara, and Ventura counties participate in Prop 90.

Note that if you sell your original home first THEN buy the second home, there are some circumstances that allow you to buy a home 5-10% more expensive (if you wait 1-2 years IIRC), otherwise the new home much be LESS than the original one. So in your example, you would have to buy a house for under 700K.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

And to add insult to injury for non-native Californians, the houses can be passed down a lineal line any number of times, AND the 'tax exemption' can be rolled over into another property...  1% max and not tied to inflation... Sounds like a much better deal than Florida.

much much better. think of the savings for the trump kids. but this is florida and someone has to pay for beach renourishment. so instead of continuing to pay a mere $795k per year in property taxes on daddy's $125 million cottage (the former $41 million gosman estate, not the fabulous mar-a-lago) the next owner will be paying about $2.4 million each year (assuming the house ever sells). if that house was in fort lauderdale instead of palm beach, they'd paying another 1/2 mil over that.

money money money money money money money money money

Florida real estate is nothing short of amazing. I thought it was a little peaky before two years ago when the 5 hurricanes in a row hit. My first thought was "well, that oughta knock the prices down a bit".

nah, hurricanes are good for business. you ought to see the supermarket shelves the day before they hit. not a sardine can left. didn't even know anyone actually eats those things.

years ago the florida tourist slogan was "the rules are different here." the slogan never really caught on, yet still applies.

 

[Brat]

The family I have in mind are in their early 30's, so they wont be able to take advantage of this program for a while.  

 

[LEX]

I live in AZ.  There are now Home insurance companies that are state focused, rather than the All State, Farmers, American Family and myriad other national syndicates that are able to write policies here and cut the rates by 30 plus % since they are insuring a much lower risk pool in these selected low risk states since they are regional and not national.  I have been with Farmers, but I am going to move to one of the AA Best rated "Cherry Pickers" and go from $1100/year on insuring a primary residence valued in excess of seven figures to $730/year.  This with a $1,000 deductable.  Includes full structural replacement  that rides with the market escalation.

Key is there are no earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados, or similar regional catasrophic events that blow the risk up every five years in these safer geographic areas such as Nevada, most of Arizona, Utah, Wyoming and eastern Oregon, Washignton and selected places in the midwest and inland east coast.

Note that the home owners insurance programs are a STATE REGULATED business and must have available reserves for claims that are estimted and approved based on  the states risk reserve ratios, not a national ratio.  This means that the Allstates, farmers, American family, and countless other national insurance companies are harvesting premium profits ( done outside of state regulations as balance sheet 'whole corporation"  transfers that are SEC approved as internal holding company share profits or losses) from low risk states such as Arizona (big premium profits to share holders) to offset Florida or similar huge claims losses (shareholder losses).  If you live in a state such as Arizona or Nevada, take a look at a smaller, state focused home owners insurance writers that are independently owned and see how much you have been subsidizing the bad risk decisions that the Farmers, American Family,  All State and any other national insurance conglomerate has been taking from your wallet. 

Also be fully appraised that the large insurance companies own virtually all political control of the respective state legislative over sight and control much of the in state regulatory decisions through their lobby.  If you want decent rates, you must assert your own market due diligence. 

 

[bobbee25]

We are on the east coast of Florida, $380K house with $2600 tax bill. Just got the homestead.

 

[lets-retire]

My question with insurance is: I have USAA a national, but selective company (similar to a credit union for insurance) and my premiums for both car and homeowners is lower than anybody else. I also receive a refund every year of excess premiums paid. How can this be? I pay less than any at other company receive a refund and USAA stills seems to make a profit.

Bennevis--Don't believe once your off the coast it's safe. Polk county does not have a coast and was hit repeatedly in the 2004 hurricane season. I think four of the storms went through there. They didn't have the storm surge problem, but they were hit hard by the tornadoes. Not to mention the peninsula is only something like 80-100 miles across, which isn't enough time to significantly slow down a strong storm.

To the OP Charleston, SC is great I'd move back there in heartbeat. The problem with NC is it seems like they were always getting hit by the hurricanes. I'm right behind you, except I'm going to Gulfport, MS. The house has been on the market for a month, I have an accepted offer for about 100,000 more than I paid three years ago, and I'm outta here in about 2 months. I figured I'd stay at a beach hotel for a few weeks before I leave. The houses, still standing, in Gulfport are a lot cheaper than they are here and the pay is similar.

 

[brewer12345]

My question with insurance is:  I have USAA a national, but selective company (similar to a credit union for insurance) and my premiums for both car and homeowners is lower than anybody else.  I also receive a refund every year of excess premiums paid.  How can this be?  I pay less than any at other company receive a refund and USAA stills seems to make a profit.

How much do you really want to know? I can give you an explanation of how insurers make money and how that boils down to your specifics, but it might take a while.

 

[Nords]

How much do you really want to know?  I can give you an explanation of how insurers make money and how that boils down to your specifics, but it might take a while.

I bet USAA doesn't have anywhere near the sales expenses or deadbeat receivables that other insurance companies have to contend with.

Armed Forces Insurance has been able to stay cheaper than USAA for decades, but AFI has been greatly raising their rates (or cancelling coverage in the Southeast) and I'm not all that sure whether they're taking in enough money yet to remain in business.

I guess this week I'm finally gonna have to put together a quote sheet, fax it to both of them, and let them make me an offer...