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Old 02-12-2020, 06:47 AM   #21
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I have given considerable thought to this issue, since we have no children or close family. I expect that we will move into a CCRC by the time we are 80. I occasionally mention it to the young wife just to get her accustomed to the idea, because I know she will be resistant when the time comes. Even though I thoroughly enjoy our house, I am a little more flexible about my living space needs.
DW and I haven’t thought about it, but we need to as we’re in the same situation. And we have the added concern of 7 siblings, only 2 have real net worth (us and 1 other).

As for when (hopefully not 80), with some luck I’d like to think we could hold off until one of us goes, take care of each other living independently until then. My parents lived independently until they were 93 years old, and passed at 93 and 96, my sister moved in for the last 3 years.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:54 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Scratchy View Post
We have no children or close family nearby and I'm very worried about how we would manage if one of us were dead and the other incapacitated.

All of this is not easy to set up-finding the right attorney to draft the trust and POA properly, speaking to corporate trustees, is all time consuming and frustrating at times. I have not gotten around to recruiting family/friends to possibly serve in the role I describe above, but I'm dreading it.

I’ve been thinking along the same lines - professional successor trustee backup, professional fiduciary, and backup medical POA. I think what distresses me the most is that I have served in these roles for others and, quite honestly, they were weighty and difficult responsibilities.

I was glad to be there for them and I know it brought them peace of mind. I managed things as I hoped someone would manage for me - but there were also times I wished someone else was doing it because some aspects were very difficult and it was an extended timeline. That being said, I would absolutely do it again because it’s such a noble undertaking.

The root of the word “care” means to “cry out” - when we care for others, we cry out for them. Advocacy for an incapacitated person requires much - especially when they are not family.

This is, for sure, a trending topic as the population ages and doesn’t just impact those of us without children - I know several who do not believe their children are capable (for whatever reason) of serving in this capacity.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I have given considerable thought to this issue, since we have no children or close family. I expect that we will move into a CCRC by the time we are 80. I occasionally mention it to the young wife just to get her accustomed to the idea, because I know she will be resistant when the time comes. Even though I thoroughly enjoy our house, I am a little more flexible about my living space needs.


+ another one for this exact situation and plan. DW is not the type to take action before she has to but it’s my future-oriented, planning nature that has allowed us to accumulate some resources. This is part of it, i.e. what will our needs be as we age with no kids? We’re in our 50s and Stage 1 will simply be an arrangement with no snow and ice to deal with like at our current house, which we otherwise enjoy.
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:03 AM   #24
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As for when (hopefully not 80), with some luck I’d like to think we could hold off until one of us goes, take care of each other living independently until then.
One of my neighbors is a widower and still goes to the gym every morning at 85. Another is 82 and still plays tennis twice a week (had a hip replacement last year) and golf in the summer. Both of them use the same line: "The only way I'm leaving this house is with a toe tag attached."
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Growing Risk to America’s Seniors: Themselves
Old 02-12-2020, 07:04 AM   #25
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Growing Risk to America’s Seniors: Themselves

Opps, one other thought - DH and I have done the hard work of documenting and thoroughly discussing our choices on allowing death in various situations. It is our hope this would limit an extended time of care management. So, I hope that helps the situation.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:28 AM   #26
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My mother got one of those little button things people wear around their neck. It saved her twice. One time she got seriously dizzy for no apparent reason (The docs never found a good reason.) and the other time she fell.

It also helped that she lived in a gated retirement village. The company that operated the button thingy called the security gate and her family. The security guard got to her house in about 1 minute. The para-medics took maybe 5 minutes. It took my sister took 20 minutes to get there despite working nearby.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:37 AM   #27
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DW & I are all for voluntary euthenasia. We NEVER want to get to a point where we cannot take care of ourselves, or each other.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:54 AM   #28
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DW & I are all for voluntary euthenasia. We NEVER want to get to a point where we cannot take care of ourselves, or each other.
This (quoted above) is an interesting post and concept. I'd be curious to hear if or how you plan to pick the time to end it all, and, if you don't plan to "go out" together, what is the plan for the remaining person? (maybe you haven't planned it out yet?)

I've started thinking about the same "exit strategy" for me as DW has a higher probability of checking out well before me due to her advanced COPD.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:05 AM   #29
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This (quoted above) is an interesting post and concept. I'd be curious to hear if or how you plan to pick the time to end it all, and, if you don't plan to "go out" together, what is the plan for the remaining person? (maybe you haven't planned it out yet?)

I've started thinking about the same "exit strategy" for me as DW has a higher probability of checking out well before me due to her advanced COPD.
"Squirrel!" or "Jibe O!"

Simple. As I implied in my posting, When ONE of us cannot look after the other or we were both unable to care for ourselves. More than likely one will go first, so the decision for the remaining partner is easy. The problem I have is finding a painless method that can be self administered. Drugs are the clear winner, but getting and finding which would be the best one is a the challenge.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:12 AM   #30
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My mother got one of those little button things people wear around their neck. It saved her twice.
My Dad had one of those. He never remembered to use it. One day he called me concerned he was having a heart attack, I told him to "push the button around his neck!" His response, "oh, yeah. ok." I met him at the hospital an hour later.

Then the time he did set off his button...My sister and I both get a call from the emergency service at 6am that his button had gone off and he was unresponsive. They were dispatching emergency response. I threw on clothes and drove (a bit over the speed limit) down to his house, beating my sister by a minute or two. Dad was sitting in his LazyBoy chair watching golf and snacking on some food. What?! We asked him what happened, and he had no idea what we were talking about. I asked if the paramedics had shown up. He said "No. No one had been there." Eventually, we were able to piece it all together. He lived in a Senior Community (Leisure World), and he had gotten up that morning and per his usual habit, hopped onto his scooter to go trash digging to collect cans to recycle, a practice he was given several tickets for by the association (I've know about dryer sheets since I was a kid). The first trash can is just outside his unit. When he leaned in to grab a can, it pressed the button around his neck. He then hopped on his scooter and headed for the next trash can and so on. In the meantime, the paramedics showed up, checked his unit, which was empty and left. He returned to his unit and sat down to watch some golf, none the wiser until my sister and I came barreling in.....
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:24 AM   #31
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One of my neighbors is a widower and still goes to the gym every morning at 85. Another is 82 and still plays tennis twice a week (had a hip replacement last year) and golf in the summer. Both of them use the same line: "The only way I'm leaving this house is with a toe tag attached."
That's everyone's plan at some point, but it doesn't work out that way for everyone, so it's wise to have some plan B. My parents were very lucky, fingers crossed.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:29 AM   #32
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We are back living in the town we moved to 40 years ago, and I still have a work colleague living here from those days. The block of offices where we used to work are now a nursing home and we wondered if we could have our offices back when the time came to move in. It would be very nostalgic as in those days we were young and still very much enjoying our jobs.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:36 AM   #33
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Michigan woman dead for over 5 years before her bank account went dry and they found the body.

https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/us/mi...und/index.html
And this woman (Pia) wasn't elderly, she was just 44 and apparently enjoyed traveling quite a bit so she was in and out of her home for extended periods of time. A neighbor requested a wellness check early on when she hadn't seen her for a while and the police said all was well. So, the population for which this could be a possibility is much larger than older folks losing the ability to care for themselves (#1 in the thread).

I just want to make an observation here - Pia, by all accounts, seemed to enjoy her life traveling which perhaps led to less connection in her local community (although a dedicated neighbor continued to mow her lawn for years, apparently without compensation or any sort of expression of gratitude!). The initial take-away (for me anyway) was one of horror and not wanting that to happen to me.

No one wants that to be what is most remembered about them - when one of the first reactions is "here is a person who no one loved or cared about" or "here is a person that did not have the foresight to plan for an unattended heart attack in a garage in winter" [calls for speculation on my part] or whatever other flavor of aversion bubbles up.

Oddly, considering this situation has rounded out my thinking a bit on exploring to make my own arrangements for professional assistance in managing my affairs in lieu of family.

Hmmm...what if I don't get it right? What if I do the best I can but still some sort of situation results in me being endlessly circulated on the internet as a cautionary meme? If this happens, I'll look you up Pia, and we'll knock a few back, laughing how as INTJs, no one really knew anything about our real lives.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:41 AM   #34
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Professional fiduciaries are licensed in CA; DH and I recently signed one on as part of our estate plan (we don't have kids and our siblings are not up to the task).
For anyone who thinks pulling the plug/voluntary euthanasia will be a clear-cut decision, I just finished this episode of NPR's Hidden Brain podcast: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/13/77893...ake-at-the-end . There are a lot of discussions to be had beforehand, and even then, the afflicted person may change their mind.
Lots of interesting thoughts and plans here, good thread.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:51 AM   #35
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Really weird situation. Even if my husband was gone my kids and my friends would know quickly if I wasn’t answering my phone.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:03 AM   #36
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"Squirrel!" or "Jibe O!"

Simple. As I implied in my posting, When ONE of us cannot look after the other or we were both unable to care for ourselves. More than likely one will go first, so the decision for the remaining partner is easy. The problem I have is finding a painless method that can be self administered. Drugs are the clear winner, but getting and finding which would be the best one is a the challenge.
I believe the simplest and easiest way to kill oneself is with a lecture bottle of nitrogen. Get a plastic mask and tubing. Connect bottle and open valve. You will get one big inhale and it's all over. Since your body doesn't detect CO2, you will not struggle. Probably any inert gas except CO2 will work.
In the chemical industry where I worked for years, we've had episodes where workers have died from N2 inhalation. In very low oxygen, you get one deep breath and pass out. I have no idea why they don't use this instead of lethal injection in prisons.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:18 AM   #37
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painless method that can be self administered
Why not fentanyl? I have no experience with it but it seems pretty easy to OD and you'd go out on a "high".
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:25 AM   #38
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I am far more worried about ending up with a state appointed guardian and getting financially wiped out, than I am about being found long dead. You're not going to care about the latter.

I think Nevada has implemented some guardian reforms but a few of the stories from that state really chilled me. I have one distant family member and, through Facebook of all places, we'ver rekindled contact. Glad about that, except he is older than I am.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:46 AM   #39
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The problem I have is finding a painless method that can be self administered. Drugs are the clear winner, but getting and finding which would be the best one is a the challenge.
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I believe the simplest and easiest way to kill oneself is with a lecture bottle of nitrogen. Get a plastic mask and tubing. Connect bottle and open valve. You will get one big inhale and it's all over. Since your body doesn't detect CO2, you will not struggle. Probably any inert gas except CO2 will work.
In the chemical industry where I worked for years, we've had episodes where workers have died from N2 inhalation. In very low oxygen, you get one deep breath and pass out. I have no idea why they don't use this instead of lethal injection in prisons.
Nitrogen is legit and deadly. It is also one of the methods that is endorsed (?) by the Final Exit folks.

I have read up on some of the developments in "self dealing" (if you will) and there seems to be some interest in the product "sodium nitrite." It is normally used to cure meat, but in certain doses, it can be used to remove oxygen from the blood in much the same way hypoxia does. Painless and simple to use. The Final Exit Network has some information on it and last I read, was actively looking for people (family/witnesses) that have had experience with it.

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We are back living in the town we moved to 40 years ago, and I still have a work colleague living here from those days. The block of offices where we used to work are now a nursing home and we wondered if we could have our offices back when the time came to move in. It would be very nostalgic as in those days we were young and still very much enjoying our jobs.
Or you could just have flashbacks of how it was a terrible j*b! Could be a really bad deal during the "end of days"
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:11 PM   #40
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And this woman (Brooke) wasn't elderly, she was just 49 and apparently enjoyed traveling quite a bit so she was in and out of her home for extended periods of time. A neighbor requested a wellness check early on when she hadn't seen her for a while and the police said all was well. So, the population for which this could be a possibility is much larger than older folks losing the ability to care for themselves (#1 in the thread).

I just want to make an observation here - Brooke, by all accounts, seemed to enjoy her life traveling which perhaps led to less connection in her local community (although a dedicated neighbor continued to mow her lawn for years, apparently without compensation or any sort of expression of gratitude!). The initial take-away (for me anyway) was one of horror and not wanting that to happen to me.

No one wants that to be what is most remembered about them - when one of the first reactions is "here is a person who no one loved or cared about" or "here is a person that did not have the foresight to plan for an unattended heart attack in a garage in winter" [calls for speculation on my part] or whatever other flavor of aversion bubbles up.

Oddly, considering this situation has rounded out my thinking a bit on exploring to make my own arrangements for professional assistance in managing my affairs in lieu of family.

Hmmm...what if I don't get it right? What if I do the best I can but still some sort of situation results in me being endlessly circulated on the internet as a cautionary meme? If this happens, I'll look you up Brooke, and we'll knock a few back, laughing how as INTJs, no one really knew anything about our real lives.
I am not sure if you referencing the same person as the article (Brooke? The young lady in the article was named Pia) but she died at 44 years old...they mentioned that at the time she was found, she would have been 49. This article follows up on it a little bit and shows that she had quite a large family.


https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ater/24188637/
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