Have you come across a great CCRC?

[rb460]

Location

Could you say the name/location of where you live? I may have missed it if you posted it previously.

Matthews Glen is a CCRC in Matthews NC which borders Charlotte NC in Mecklenburg County..

Good luck in your research!

 

[Koolau]

Too many senior living places ship people out in ambulances too fast. I think you hit on the reason why: passing responsibility.

Yeah, I can't comment on the reasons, but we live between a fire station/ambulance station and a very nice assisted living facility. I think we average about 3 runs a day (both a fire truck AND ambulance always roll together - sirens blaring even at night!) Can't say they are all for the facility, but that's my guess. We've visited the facility a couple of times and it's very nice but it's not a CCRC. I'm guessing you are right. When in doubt, ship them out! YMMV

 

[harllee]

The CCRCs can't "ship them out" in our area now--no room in the hospitals. At my mother's CCRC independent living a resident was having stroke like symptoms and the ambulance was called and took her to the local hospital. The ambulance brought her back in a few hours and said there was not a place for her in the local hospital-- hospital was full with Covid patients. Her family was called and they took her to a hospital in another town--sure enough she had a stroke and now is in the nursing home.

 

[Sunset]

The CCRCs can't "ship them out" in our area now--no room in the hospitals. At my mother's CCRC independent living a resident was having stroke like symptoms and the ambulance was called and took her to the local hospital. The ambulance brought her back in a few hours and said there was not a place for her in the local hospital-- hospital was full with Covid patients. Her family was called and they took her to a hospital in another town--sure enough she had a stroke and now is in the nursing home.

I thought the idea of CCRC's was to have a place to remain at until death.



If they can just ship me out to some crappy nursing home, I don't see a reason to pay $500K downpayment and $5K/month for an apartment. I can just stay at home and get meals on wheels, a house cleaner, etc.

 

[Scuba]

I thought the idea of CCRC's was to have a place to remain at until death.



If they can just ship me out to some crappy nursing home, I don't see a reason to pay $500K downpayment and $5K/month for an apartment. I can just stay at home and get meals on wheels, a house cleaner, etc.

CCRC’s are licensed to provide long-term care, not critical care. They have to “ship out” people who may be having a medical trauma they’re unable to treat in-house. Normally a hospital would accept these patients, but now apparently some hospitals don’t have room. The hospital who accepted the patient should discharge her to the same place she came from if it’s a CCRC. If it was an assisted living facility without an affiliated nursing home (ie not a CCRC), the AL facility probably can’t meet her needs in her current condition.

 

[harllee]

I thought the idea of CCRC's was to have a place to remain at until death.



If they can just ship me out to some crappy nursing home, I don't see a reason to pay $500K downpayment and $5K/month for an apartment. I can just stay at home and get meals on wheels, a house cleaner, etc.

The nursing home that the stroke lady was moved to is a part of the CCRC, it is the nicest nursing home in the area and you have to be living independently in the CCRC to be eligible to move to the nursing home. BUT the lady who had the stroke would probably not have to move to a nursing home if the hospital had been able to take her in and treat her. The reason the hospital could not treat her was because it was full of Covid patients.

 

[JoeWras]

CCRC’s are licensed to provide long-term care, not critical care. They have to “ship out” people who may be having a medical trauma they’re unable to treat in-house. Normally a hospital would accept these patients, but now apparently some hospitals don’t have room. The hospital who accepted the patient should discharge her to the same place she came from if it’s a CCRC. If it was an assisted living facility without an affiliated nursing home (ie not a CCRC), the AL facility probably can’t meet her needs in her current condition.

OK, I sort of apologize for using the "ship out" term.

What I mean is this: many independent living or assisted living places have a very quick trigger on calling for an ambulance. When my dad was in a place (which we eventually took him out of), there was a constant stream of ambulances. I would be outside taking a break or walk and witness the loading process. It would be 10 degree F weather and you'd see someone wheeled out on a gurney, freezing, with the wheels banging in the cracks and their heads flipping side to side.

It looked like a sack of potatoes being loaded on the ambulance. It was dehumanizing.

So, yeah, they got "shipped out."

YMMV. This was not a CCRC, and it turned out not a quality independent living place either. We moved him to a much better place where I never witnessed any "shipping out."

 

[harllee]

I am glad my mother's CCRC calls the ambulance quickly for potential heart attacks, strokes, falls where the person can't get up, etc. Better safe than sorry. I don't think that is "shipping them out". I think that is being safe and prudent and I am glad for it. Now the hospital being full is another matter.

 

[athena53]

Another reason for ambulance calls: Dad was in Assisted Living and had a fall detection pendant. Half the time he didn't wear his hearing aids. It must have been awfully sensitive- once it went off when I hugged him hard- and would go off when nothing was wrong. Dad couldn't hear the voice asking if he was OK so they'd call 911 and the ambulance would arrive as Dad was in the dining room having lunch.

My siblings who live nearby eventually got him one that alerted the facility staff instead of calling 911- we all realized what a waste of resources that was.

 

[harllee]

My mother has a fall detection pendent proved by the CCRC and monitored by them. One time it went off by accident and the CCRC nurse came running to her apartment banging on the door. If mother had not answered the door they would have used a master key to come in. In my mother's CCRC independent living apartment there is a nurse on duty on her floor who is there every day and provides many services (such as Covid tests, blood pressure checks, medication assistance), most of which are included in mother's rent. I gives me so much peace of mind.

 

[blueskyk]

Our family had a good experience with a place run by Good Samaritan. https://www.good-sam.com/

Not sure exactly what technical category the facility was but my Stepmom had advanced MS (used a power wheelchair) but was fiercely independent and drove her van (modified to use wheelchair locked in as drivers seat) until a year before her passing at 86.

My folks originally moved into a Brookdale facility which was simply a pay by month place and pretty darn nice. Dad was her primary caregiver and couldn’t do it all anymore. They kept their old house and would head there to get away (both were introverts that found a LOT of social activity wearing). My dad had a huge shop he loved at home.

They were on the waiting list for the Good Sam place for years and after my Dad passed (cancer - 3 weeks between diagnosis and departure) she moved in. At this place when you were on the waiting list, if they called, you could defer until the next opening.

She moved to a one bedroom “independent living” apartment with kitchen and outdoor balcony (about 900 sf) for about $1250 a month and hired home care for her needs (assistance for dressing/putting to bed/showers). I believe her buy in was $150K or so and allowed her discounted (but still pricey) access to skilled nursing portion of the facility which she used for recovery from surgery a couple of times. Lovely (but older) facility with gardens, walking paths, great dining, lots of activities (she still painted and loved the art groups)

She lived there for another 10 years until her passing last year. My Dad had been so worried about how she would get on once he passed and whether or not he had made the best decisions for them. He was terrified her care needs would escalate and she would run out of money.

RIP Dad - you did great and she stayed in that apartment and got great care, even through Covid.

 

[youbet]

There are rental CCRC’s that don’t require an entrance fee, but there are also rental communities that offer a progression of care but are NOT CCRC’s.

What is the difference then? There must be some nuance differentiating a Contract D (pay as you go) CCRC from a "rental community that offers a progression of care but is not a CCRC."

 

[HarryHawk]

She lived there for another 10 years until her passing last year. My Dad had been so worried about how she would get on once he passed and whether or not he had made the best decisions for them. He was terrified her care needs would escalate and she would run out of money.

RIP Dad - you did great and she stayed in that apartment and got great care, even through Covid.

This is exactly what my major motivation is. I will rest easier knowing that whenever whatever happens to me, my wife's needs will be provided. I did not want to delegate this responsibility to my son, he has his own family.

 

[Scuba]

What is the difference then? There must be some nuance differentiating a Contract D (pay as you go) CCRC from a "rental community that offers a progression of care but is not a CCRC."

A rental community might offer independent and assisted living, or independent and assisted and memory care, but not skilled nursing. A CCRC must offer all levels of care including 24/7 skilled nursing. Many seniors are able to “age in place” with services offered by a Residential Care Facility for the Elderly (RCFE). For example if one needs assistance with the activities of daily living or one has dementia or Alzheimer’s, that person could live in an RCFE rather than a skilled nursing facility (SNF).

A SNF is appropriate for someone that needs 24/7 nursing care. SNF’s typically have a mix of short-term rehab patients recently discharged from hospitals who are recovering from surgery or injuries and people who are bedridden long-term and therefore need nursing care. A CCRC must include a SNF, while an RCFE may include a SNF but often does not.

In California, CCRC’s and RCFE’s are regulated differently and have different licensing requirements.

 

[harllee]

In my area all the CCRCs that have all the levels of care charge a substantial entry fee. I have never seen a CCRC without an entry fee.

 

[mickeyd]

We have been a resident at our CCRC for 2.5 years. Most residents are retired military, so plenty military pension and SSA income flows in monthly. In addition, most folks have worked civilian jobs that have pensions. Plus many of us have VA disability income. CCRC has plenty of scheduled activities, side trips, speakers etc. The food is institutional but always healthy and available. Housekeeping occurs weekly (2 hours) and landscaping seems to be continuous We are considered to be independent living which means that no one interfears with us unless we ask for assistance. It's pretty sweet.

 

[ncbill]

I thought the idea of CCRC's was to have a place to remain at until death.



If they can just ship me out to some crappy nursing home, I don't see a reason to pay $500K downpayment and $5K/month for an apartment. I can just stay at home and get meals on wheels, a house cleaner, etc.

There's no guarantee if you need skilled nursing care that there will actually be a bed for you at the CCRC where you are currently living.

Grandparents moved into one of the nicest ones here when she was 75 and her husband 85. He lived another decade, she a decade past his death.

During that time the CCRC tore down their old SNF building and used that space to add many more independent & assisted living apartments, with the SNF reduced to half its previous capacity.

So that CCRC had to start sending out residents who needed SNF care to outside, much lower quality (IMHO) stand-alone nursing homes.

Fortunately grandmother was able to get a room in her CCRC's SNF for her brief (around a week) stay before she died.

BTW, the best CCRCs here are all church-affiliated...if you're not an active member of that denomination, you've got no realistic chance of getting into that particular CCRC.

 

[ChrisC]

In my area all the CCRCs that have all the levels of care charge a substantial entry fee. I have never seen a CCRC without an entry fee.

So, I guess you haven't driven 2.5 hours south of you, if you live in Chapel Hill or RTP area of NC, and visited this place that opened last year, a CCRC with no entrance fee, that as far I can tell is strictly on a rental model, when I visited it last year for my BIL: https://www.barclayatsouthpark.com/#

Even the Official NC Reference Guide to CCRC at page 42 identifies it as a no entrance fee, CCRC. https://www.ncdoi.gov/media/1020/open

Finally, The Cypress of Raliegh, closer to you, is identified in the Guide as a CCRC with no entrance fee, though I doubt that's entirely accurate because, like it's companion CCRC, The Cypress of Charlotte, it's a equity model CCRC and there's a 10% "equity membership fee" skimmed off the price of the unit that serves an entrance fee, at the very least, for medical expense deduction purposes.

 

[harllee]

So, I guess you haven't driven 2.5 hours south of you, if you live in Chapel Hill or RTP area of NC, and visited this place that opened last year, a CCRC with no entrance fee, that as far I can tell is strictly on a rental model, when I visited it last year for my BIL: https://www.barclayatsouthpark.com/#

Even the Official NC Reference Guide to CCRC at page 42 identifies it as a no entrance fee, CCRC. https://www.ncdoi.gov/media/1020/open

Finally, The Cypress of Raliegh, closer to you, is identified in the Guide as a CCRC with no entrance fee, though I doubt that's entirely accurate because, like it's companion CCRC, The Cypress of Charlotte, it's a equity model CCRC and there's a 10% "equity membership fee" skimmed off the price of the unit that serves an entrance fee, at the very least, for medical expense deduction purposes.

I have not heard of Barclays in Charlotte --I have not looked at the Charlotte area since I want to live in Chapel Hill. Barlcays has an interesting model, looks like no entrance fee but high monthly payments--$6000-$7000 per month and the daily charges for the skilled nursing are very high also. Barclays is new so it will be interesting to see how long they stay with this model and whether it can work financially. I am familiar with Cypress in Raleigh and it is an equity model which means you actually buy your unit and the units are VERY expensive (similar to the Cedars in Chapel Hill).

 

[JoeWras]

So, I guess you haven't driven 2.5 hours south of you, if you live in Chapel Hill or RTP area of NC, and visited this place that opened last year, a CCRC with no entrance fee, that as far I can tell is strictly on a rental model, when I visited it last year for my BIL: https://www.barclayatsouthpark.com/#

Even the Official NC Reference Guide to CCRC at page 42 identifies it as a no entrance fee, CCRC. https://www.ncdoi.gov/media/1020/open

Finally, The Cypress of Raliegh, closer to you, is identified in the Guide as a CCRC with no entrance fee, though I doubt that's entirely accurate because, like it's companion CCRC, The Cypress of Charlotte, it's a equity model CCRC and there's a 10% "equity membership fee" skimmed off the price of the unit that serves an entrance fee, at the very least, for medical expense deduction purposes.

Yes, it is like Charlotte. You have to buy a unit (condo or villa). There's your entrance fee.

 

[ImaCheesehead]

Thank you all for your continuing conversations about CCRCs. There is so much to consider and even the negative stories are helpful to me.

I am bookmarking the sites for each specific place mentioned. Believe it or not, no geographic restrictions makes things harder. So many choices rather than trying to pick the best place out of just a few in town. Additionally, we are looking at lots of places long distance, makes it difficult to get the full picture and Covid isn’t helping.

 

[harllee]

ImaCheesehead, it seems to me you should pick an area of the country where you would be interested to live out your life--considering weather, family and friends, activities, etc. Then find a CCRC in that area. It seems to me that most populated areas will have nice CCRCs for you to choose from.

 

[youbet]

There is another model in CA called RCFE’s - Residential Care Facilities for the Elderly. These are different than CCRC’s in that they don’t have entrance fees and may not offer the full continuum of care. However some RCFE’s do have all levels of care but just don’t charge entrance fees.

RCFEs in California - CALA

I keep missing the difference. It seems like a CCRC offering a Type D (no entrance fee and pay as you go) contract and a RCFE having all levels of care would be the same thing. Perhaps there is some legal or licensing difference in California?

 

[Koolau]

There's no guarantee if you need skilled nursing care that there will actually be a bed for you at the CCRC where you are currently living.

Grandparents moved into one of the nicest ones here when she was 75 and her husband 85. He lived another decade, she a decade past his death.

During that time the CCRC tore down their old SNF building and used that space to add many more independent & assisted living apartments, with the SNF reduced to half its previous capacity.

So that CCRC had to start sending out residents who needed SNF care to outside, much lower quality (IMHO) stand-alone nursing homes.

Fortunately grandmother was able to get a room in her CCRC's SNF for her brief (around a week) stay before she died.

BTW, the best CCRCs here are all church-affiliated...if you're not an active member of that denomination, you've got no realistic chance of getting into that particular CCRC.

I guess if you really want to "worry" about what might happen once you buy in or are accepted into a CCRC OR actually move in, you could worry about whether they are sold to some conglomerate or even go bankrupt. When we looked on the mainland, we asked that question and got a lot of hand waving and half-hearted reassurances. But, when I pressed, it was only shrugged shoulders. YMMV

 

[bmcgonig]

Has anyone hired a CPA or someone else who specializes in this stuff to do a financial evaluation of the company before signing up?