Have you come across a great CCRC?

[ImaCheesehead]

We are 60 and 65 with no kids, currently full time RVers.

We are starting to think about getting on a waiting list for a Continuing Care Retirement Community. I am interested to know if anyone has come across any CCRC’s that look really great. We don’t care where they are since we won’t have a specific place we have to retire to when we come off the road.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

 

[braumeister]

An excellent idea for a thread. Thanks for starting it.

 

[corn18]

We came across one for my MIL about 6 years ago. She was still mobile so she moved into a single family home kicking and screaming. Her old house had a pool, giant yard and was old and always needing repairs. We convinced her this would be much better.

It is. No more maintenance. Anything goes wrong they fix it quick. She can cook if she likes but before COVID she was going to the dining room every night to meet new people. Then COVID hit. But the CCRC took good care of her and delivered meals every day for her. They provide transportation if needed. They have motion sensors in the house and emergency pull thingies.

So far so good.

Now she is in need of more care and looking at moving into assisted living at some point. Well, her CCRC assisted living is full. She has to go to a sister facility which is not near as nice. Huh? $600k buy in, $10,000 / mo for assisted living and she has to go to a different, crappy CCRC? We are feeling ripped off at this point. And she is staying in her house and using in home care to live. She has COPD and still smokes and is alcoholic, so this is not going to end well. She wants to hold out in the house until she dies. Nice thought, but she doesn't control that.

Anyway, ask about that as you are looking. What happens if you move in to an apartment and five years later need assisted living and their place is full.

 

[foxfirev5]

You can ask all the questions you want but they will always lie to you. It's hell unless you have major bucks (think 500k each) to turn over to them. As far as going that route in my 60's I'd rather put a bullet in my head. I'm the third generation living through this situation so no advice is needed.

 

[harllee]

I am on the wait list for Galloway Ridge near Chapel Hill, NC. A great place with good financials, we have many friends there who love it. It is a Life Plan Community so that as you move from independent living to assisted, memory or skilled nursing your monthly fee does not increase. It is expensive to get into and they require you be in good health to get in. (I know several people who could not get in because they had health problems). There is a fairly long waiting list. You have to give them a financial statement to get on the wait list.

Regarding Corn18's comments about assisted living not being available at her mother's CCRC --at Galloway Ridge if you need more care they must find you a place somewhere else and pay for it until a spot opens at Galloway Ridge. But to my knowledge this has never happened.

Galloway Ridge also has a trust fund to be used for the monthly payments if you run out of money. I understand that 2 ladies over age 100 are getting his benefit.

 

[RetiredHappy]

We don't foresee to ever wanting to move into a CCRC. The main issue with the CCRC model is that you put down a huge sum of money for the buy-in and you are at their mercy thereafter. There are lots of senior independent living, assisted living, memory care and skilled nursing facilities that requre no buy-in. You are much better off going with one that does not have a buy-in because as long as you have the money, you have a choice where you want to spend that money. Hand over money = No more choice.

 

[harllee]

We don't foresee to ever wanting to move into a CCRC. The main issue with the CCRC model is that you put down a huge sum of money for the buy-in and you are at their mercy thereafter. There are lots of senior independent living, assisted living, memory care and skilled nursing facilities that requre no buy-in. You are much better off going with one that does not have a buy-in because as long as you have the money, you have a choice where you want to spend that money. Hand over money = No more choice.

In my area I have not found any stand alone places I would consider moving to --most of them are dumps. The best places are all CCRCs.

 

[slowsaver]

I toured a place called Spring Lake Village ( https://covia.org/spring-lake-village/ ) with my mom. It's a life plan community, so you pay a pretty high price to get in and high monthly fees -- but if you need assisted living or even memory care, you stay there and your fees do not increase. There is a small inflation increase every year.

They don't accept everyone. You have to pass their medical exam (they don't let people in if they already need assistance), and you also have to open all your financial books to them, so *they* decide if you can afford it.

Here's the thing I liked: If you pass their financial checks, then you will never get kicked out even if you go broke. Lots of people lost money in 2000 and 2008, but nobody had to leave. I'm not sure if that means they manage your money for you or not, but it sounds like a lifetime guarantee no matter if you get Alzheimer's and lose every dollar in the market and live to 120. This is attractive to me since I have no kids.

There are other perks, I won't go into details. The main downside: This particular site is in the highly fire prone area of Northern California. They had some ugly evacuations during the last 2 big fire seasons. I am now leaning toward Covia's (the company that manages Spring Lake Village) more urban sites, like Palo Alto, SF or Oakland, CA. Unfortunately, those are more expensive than the Wine Country site.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Corn, if your MIL has enough money to pay for care why couldn’t she stay in her house versus a facility?

 

[harllee]

For the CCRC I am interested in these health problems will disqualify you:
Dementia (you have to pass a memory test--DH and I have been practicing)
Parkinsons
MS
ALS
Cancer in the last 5 years (not including non melanoma skin cancers)

I am sure there are others, these are the ones I remember.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Here's the thing I liked: If you pass their financial checks, then you will never get kicked out even if you go broke. Lots of people lost money in 2000 and 2008, but nobody had to leave. I'm not sure if that means they manage your money for you or not, but it sounds like a lifetime guarantee no matter if you get Alzheimer's and lose every dollar in the market and live to 120. This is attractive to me since I have no kids.

Unless they go belly up themselves.

 

[RetiredHappy]

In my area I have not found any stand alone places I would consider moving to --most of them are dumps. The best places are all CCRCs.

From our prior lives, we came across many nice places which offered the progression from independent living, assisted living to memory care places without buy-ins. Maybe it is geographical and we were in Northern California.

 

[CardsFan]

Cancer in the last 5 years (not including non melanoma skin cancers)

I am sure there are others, these are the ones I remember.

So, are you saying they would exclude someone, like me, who has had melanoma removed, with no problems? WOW

 

[aja8888]

Unless they go belly up themselves.

Good point! This can happen, I am sure.

 

[corn18]

Corn, if your MIL has enough money to pay for care why couldn’t she stay in her house versus a facility?

That's what she is doing now. She is paying for in home care out of her own pocket vs. moving to the sister facility which is not as nice as the one she is in.

But when she gets worse, and she will, she has to go somewhere else for assisted or nursing care living. She paid a $600k buy in to stay at the place she is. Not to go to some other dump.

 

[nwsteve]

From our prior lives, we came across many nice places which offered the progression from independent living, assisted living to memory care places without buy-ins. Maybe it is geographical and we were in Northern California.

Just keep in mind, not all CCRCs are identical. Of the three types, only Type A(Lifecare) locks-in your monthly cost. The other two types are versions of a rental agreement. Type C is basically rent with typically low or no buy in. Which is fine, until you find yourself needing Asst Living or worst Skill Nursing where you will pay near or market rates. Type B properties typically come with a buy-in but wlll offer some discount off market rate when your care needs progress. Your costs will still be well beyond your entry monthly fee (adj for inflation) at a Type A property.
In our state (WA) CCRC's are required to keep a state approved number of Asst Living units open for existing owners. Still no guarantee there is one but Type A properties pick up the costs of any temporary locations used to provide care until it has an opening. Your cost remains at the inflation adjusted monthly rate at entry.

 

[youbet]

We came across one for my MIL about 6 years ago. She was still mobile so she moved into a single family home kicking and screaming. Her old house had a pool, giant yard and was old and always needing repairs. We convinced her this would be much better.

It is. No more maintenance. Anything goes wrong they fix it quick. She can cook if she likes but before COVID she was going to the dining room every night to meet new people. Then COVID hit. But the CCRC took good care of her and delivered meals every day for her. They provide transportation if needed. They have motion sensors in the house and emergency pull thingies.

So far so good.

Now she is in need of more care and looking at moving into assisted living at some point. Well, her CCRC assisted living is full. She has to go to a sister facility which is not near as nice. Huh? $600k buy in, $10,000 / mo for assisted living and she has to go to a different, crappy CCRC? We are feeling ripped off at this point. And she is staying in her house and using in home care to live. She has COPD and still smokes and is alcoholic, so this is not going to end well. She wants to hold out in the house until she dies. Nice thought, but she doesn't control that.

Anyway, ask about that as you are looking. What happens if you move in to an apartment and five years later need assisted living and their place is full.

From the numbers you tossed out it looks like your MIL bought into a really expensive CCRC. Even here in expensive NE Illinois (greater Chicago-land), 90% of your $600k buy-in would be refundable and the assisted living or full nursing care would be more in the order of $5k/month.

How long are they telling your MIL the wait for her to be admitted into the assisted living section of her original CCRC is going to be? And will she accept moving to assisted living since you say she is fighting to stay in her independent living accomodations?

 

[corn18]

From the numbers you tossed out it looks like your MIL bought into a really expensive CCRC. Even here in expensive NE Illinois (greater Chicago-land), 90% of your $600k buy-in would be refundable and the assisted living or full nursing care would be more in the order of $5k/month.

How long are they telling your MIL the wait for her to be admitted into the assisted living section of her original CCRC is going to be? And will she accept moving to assisted living since you say she is fighting to stay in her independent living accomodations?

They offered to move her to their sister facility about an hour away. No moving back to her facility. This is in the DC area. Very expensive.

She will accept moving to assisted living when she absolutely has to. We are proud of her for doing well with home care. She knows what she is in for and is reluctant because she knows once she has to go assisted, she won't be around long. And it will probably be a horrible death.

 

[youbet]

From our prior lives, we came across many nice places which offered the progression from independent living, assisted living to memory care places without buy-ins.

Those places are called CCRC's. There are different CCRC financial contracts. I think you haven't come to an understanding of the various types.

 

[youbet]

They offered to move her to their sister facility about an hour away. No moving back to her facility.

Interesting input. DW and I have been actively shopping CCRC's with Life Care (Type A contract) because we don't have LTCI. We always ask (again and again) about what happens if one or both of us needs assisted or full nursing care and that location is full. We've been told we would be temporarily accommodated in another facility and would have priority in moving back once an opening occurs.

It must be a common question because it generally shows up in the FAQ section of their info pack. Given your inputs, I'll make sure we emphasize this issue in our research.

 

[youbet]

Just keep in mind, not all CCRCs are identical. Of the three types, only Type A(Lifecare) locks-in your monthly cost.

Does your contract actually "lock in" your monthly cost?

In our shopping, we've found that local CCRC's have a system where clients needing to move to the NH section pay a cost which is more of an average of the monthly costs paid by all residents. That way, a client who was paying a high monthly fee because they were in a 2 bedroom +den + balcony unit isn't paying more to be in full nursing than a client who was in a studio unit with much lower monthly fees.

I can't remember the name off hand. But the common fee protects high monthly fee clients from subsidizing low monthly fee clients once both are in full nursing. It seemed logical and fair to me.

Folks living in expensive units actually pay less than their monthly fee once they go to full nursing. Folks living in inexpensive units pay more than their montly fee.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Those places are called CCRC's. There are different CCRC financial contracts. I think you haven't come to an understanding of the various types.

I am talking about nice places which require no buy-ins. I was in the elder care industry and I am very familiar with all the different financial models.

 

[youbet]

We are 60 and 65 with no kids, currently full time RVers.

We are starting to think about getting on a waiting list for a Continuing Care Retirement Community. I am interested to know if anyone has come across any CCRC’s that look really great. We don’t care where they are since we won’t have a specific place we have to retire to when we come off the road.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

Before you fret over choosing a particular CCRC, make sure you have a strong understanding of the various types of financial arrangements (contracts) that exist for CCRC's. Are you looking for a LTCI component to the financial arrangement? Do you think you might want to move to another geographical area at some point? Etc. After that, worry about the details of an individual facility or Corp.

 

[youbet]

I am talking about nice places which require no buy-ins. I was in the elder care industry and I am very familiar with all the different financial models.

Nice places which require no buy-ins and have on campus transitions from independent to assisted to full nursing care are called CCRC's. The financial arrangements (contracts) are a separate issue.

You might want to check your understanding of the financial models. You've made some statements (perhaps I'm misunderstanding) that indicate you may have some misunderstanding of terminology, etc.

 

[Bamaman]

My mother's luxury apartment complex went condo, and we moved her into a brand new CCRC. The cost was $2,050 a month including 20 meals from a Dutch chef in the nicest restaurant facility in the city. The security deposit was $177K, 90% of which was refunded when she left. The CCRC was plush, and had assisted living and full nursing home care too.

My mother ended up having to have 24/7 keepers to watch over her and give her meds. At $12 per hour, she ended up going thru big money in the 2 years she was there. Looking back, my sister was managing her care, and she just wouldn't have her go to outside nursing care--which was also very expensive.

My mother was down to her last $5,000 when she passed away. It was her time at 91 years old.