Have you come across a great CCRC?

[youbet]

What age do people consider moving into a CCRC ?

I haven't started SS yet, and think of myself as too young to be in an old folks home.

You would be young for the CCRC's DW and I have been visiting this past couple of years.

Visit 2 - 3 for guest events and ask questions about entry requirements and the typical ages for new clients, average age of all residents, etc. Then park that info until you feel your age and current lifestyle would make a CCRC a good fit for you. That might be never, your mid-70's or later depending on your aging and health progression.

I think it's a good thing to learn about CCRC's and their various types of financial arrangements and physical accommodations long before need. Because getting in on a Life Care Plan (Type A) contract depends on being fully independent, you might enter a period of declining health in your life where you need to act quickly to be admitted.

Pay-as-you-go type CCRC's are available too. One of the popular posters on this board, Imolderthanyou, (hope I got that right) and his DW lived in one SW of Chicago. He posted very favorably regarding their experience there. Those types of contracts provide no LTCI component but allow admissions for folks less than fully independent.

 

[Koolau]

It's my humble opinion that the only way to really know how good a CCRC (or similar facility) is to KNOW someone who lives and dies there over a period of several years. We now have an example of this in two different local CCRCs. BOTH seem very good. The bad news is that they are VERY expensive. I never totally bought into the theory that "you get what you pay for" but I do believe anything good will cost a lot of money. I think we could figure a way to afford either of these facilities, but it would be limiting since we are still independent. It would be a major commitment to go with a CCRC in my opinion. It's not for everyone, but we watched it work for two older friends (and ultimately, for their families who could relax, knowing their loved ones were safe and well cared for.) I think CCRCs are very much a YMMV decision.

 

[HarryHawk]

It's my humble opinion that the only way to really know how good a CCRC (or similar facility) is to KNOW someone who lives and dies there over a period of several years. We now have an example of this in two different local CCRCs. BOTH seem very good. The bad news is that they are VERY expensive. I never totally bought into the theory that "you get what you pay for" but I do believe anything good will cost a lot of money. I think we could figure a way to afford either of these facilities, but it would be limiting since we are still independent. It would be a major commitment to go with a CCRC in my opinion. It's not for everyone, but we watched it work for two older friends (and ultimately, for their families who could relax, knowing their loved ones were safe and well cared for.) I think CCRCs are very much a YMMV decision.

My wife's aunt and sister/BiL both lived in CCRCs for long periods of time and were/are very happy with the experience. We had visited both and liked what we saw, which had a big influence when we decided where we wanted to transition to from our current home.

We found a potential CCRC which seemed to check most of our boxes, it is located in a small town on the shore of Lake Michigan. It is run by a non-profit which has been providing services for seniors for the past 75 years. It is a new project so we will have input regarding the layout and design of our home.

During our first face-to-face interaction, the first thing the representative told us - This is NOT the cheapest housing solution you may be able to find.

That was fine with us, we have saved our entire lives and were not looking to find a budget way to spend the rest of our years. We have since met alot of our future neighbors, they are very similar to us. They are looking for a quality and enjoyable community to call home.

THe other aspect that we considered; my mother was living by herself in her home into her 90's. That situation was an overhanging concern for me regarding her safety and well-being. She suffered a minor stroke, at which point my brother and I made arrangements to have her move to an assisted living facility. She has pretty much entirely recovered from the stroke, she is in a very nice living situation with other people and daily activities. She is happier now than when she was living alone, and my concerns for her well-being are greatly relieved. We wanted to avoid having our son have to be concerned about us in the future the same way I was concerned about my mother.

 

[bmcgonig]

It's my humble opinion that the only way to really know how good a CCRC (or similar facility) is to KNOW someone who lives and dies there over a period of several years. We now have an example of this in two different local CCRCs. BOTH seem very good. The bad news is that they are VERY expensive. I never totally bought into the theory that "you get what you pay for" but I do believe anything good will cost a lot of money. I think we could figure a way to afford either of these facilities, but it would be limiting since we are still independent. It would be a major commitment to go with a CCRC in my opinion. It's not for everyone, but we watched it work for two older friends (and ultimately, for their families who could relax, knowing their loved ones were safe and well cared for.) I think CCRCs are very much a YMMV decision.

Can you tell us the names of these CCRCs Koolau?

 

[Koolau]

Can you tell us the names of these CCRCs Koolau?

Yes, one is called Kahala Nui and the other is called Pohai Nani. I can't even tell you their status (re: CCRC or other). We visited our friends at these two places and came away impressed. YMMV

 

[audreyh1]

CCRC is really our only option as we have no children and siblings are too close to us in age.

We'll keep our eyes open. In our early to mid 60s now.

 

[rodi]

It's my humble opinion that the only way to really know how good a CCRC (or similar facility) is to KNOW someone who lives and dies there over a period of several years. We now have an example of this in two different local CCRCs. BOTH seem very good. The bad news is that they are VERY expensive. I never totally bought into the theory that "you get what you pay for" but I do believe anything good will cost a lot of money. I think we could figure a way to afford either of these facilities, but it would be limiting since we are still independent. It would be a major commitment to go with a CCRC in my opinion. It's not for everyone, but we watched it work for two older friends (and ultimately, for their families who could relax, knowing their loved ones were safe and well cared for.) I think CCRCs are very much a YMMV decision.

This. I have a good idea of what life is like at a high end CCRC near us because I have a friend there. She lives at Vi La Jolla. Her decision was triggered by some active living health crisis... She was expecting to do a knee surgery soon when she tripped and fell in her garden and broke her arm. Living alone - she had a heck of a time getting dressed, etc. That triggered her to start looking around. She moved in before her knee surgery and was able to do her PT onsite after the surgery. Her UCSD pension covers her rent with a lot of extra, and selling her paid off home paid off the buy in, with extra. There are a lot of UCSD faculty and admin retirees there - so she's got a built in friend network. She's been there over 10 years and loves it.

My step mom is in a rental assisted living - but still pretty high end. My son worked as a waiter in the dining room and got to know many of the residents. My sister's MIL was at this facility before step mom moved in. Pluses for her place are lots of amenities, higher floors have ocean/bay views. Minuses is they don't do skilled nursing (MIL had to move out when her needs were greater than what they provided.) They have independent, memory care, and assisted living. Step mom is 95 and still in independent living. She has to prove, 2 x a year, that she can evacuate 2 floors by stairs. If she couldn't pass the test she'd have to move to one of the first two floors (it's on a hill, so both have exits to 'ground' level. She likes her ocean view on one of the upper floors so she makes sure she passes the test. But it's getting dicey as her neuropathy progresses.

 

[bmcgonig]

Yes, one is called Kahala Nui and the other is called Pohai Nani. I can't even tell you their status (re: CCRC or other). We visited our friends at these two places and came away impressed. YMMV

Thanks Koolau

 

[bmcgonig]

This. I have a good idea of what life is like at a high end CCRC near us because I have a friend there. She lives at Vi La Jolla. Her decision was triggered by some active living health crisis... She was expecting to do a knee surgery soon when she tripped and fell in her garden and broke her arm. Living alone - she had a heck of a time getting dressed, etc. That triggered her to start looking around. She moved in before her knee surgery and was able to do her PT onsite after the surgery. Her UCSD pension covers her rent with a lot of extra, and selling her paid off home paid off the buy in, with extra. There are a lot of UCSD faculty and admin retirees there - so she's got a built in friend network. She's been there over 10 years and loves it.



My step mom is in a rental assisted living - but still pretty high end. My son worked as a waiter in the dining room and got to know many of the residents. My sister's MIL was at this facility before step mom moved in. Pluses for her place are lots of amenities, higher floors have ocean/bay views. Minuses is they don't do skilled nursing (MIL had to move out when her needs were greater than what they provided.) They have independent, memory care, and assisted living. Step mom is 95 and still in independent living. She has to prove, 2 x a year, that she can evacuate 2 floors by stairs. If she couldn't pass the test she'd have to move to one of the first two floors (it's on a hill, so both have exits to 'ground' level. She likes her ocean view on one of the upper floors so she makes sure she passes the test. But it's getting dicey as her neuropathy progresses.

Vi is very high end indeed. The one in Palo Alto has an entrance fee of approx 1m for a 1 bedroom.

I like that they have the pricing on the website unlike most others where you have to almost beg to get them.

 

[Sondari]

My former in-laws were in Panorama next to Olympia WA, and it served them extremely well. It is a non-profit organization. It has three pools, a lovely new concert hall/auditorium, huge gardens, trails… I love it. A number of my students have worked there, and they say you cannot get a job there unless you are genuinely fond of older people. My DH and I (low 60s) plan to get on the waiting list this year. Panorama dot org.

 

[KarenF]

Deerfield Retirement Community in Asheville NC is very good. My FIL is there, and has been for over 10 years. He is still in a cottage. From a cottage you can move to an apartment, then Assisted Living, and then Skilled Nursing. My MIL progressed through those when she got dementia and they are a good facility in general. You can ge ton the waiting list for about $1000.

 

[ChrisC]

Deerfield Retirement Community in Asheville NC is very good. My FIL is there, and has been for over 10 years. He is still in a cottage. From a cottage you can move to an apartment, then Assisted Living, and then Skilled Nursing. My MIL progressed through those when she got dementia and they are a good facility in general. You can ge ton the waiting list for about $1000.

I'm in Charlotte NC and been on the waitlist for the last 2.5 years at this place:
https://thecypressofcharlotte.com/. Likewise, it has cottages, apartments, and skilled nursing care. It's also pricey. You can also get home care for assisted living in the cottages and apartments. Unlike other CCRCs, it's an equity model for members/residents -- you own your residential cottage or apartment but you're also on the hook for monthly membership/maintenance fees. And if you migrate over to skilled nursing care in the health center wing of the campus, the monthly maintenance is eliminated but you pay for care on a per-diem, discounted rate, which would dovetail nicely with LTCi we have.

We're 70 and 68, our waitlist status expires after 4 years and then we'd have to renew it for another 4 years with another waitlist payment of $1000. Prior to Covid, our waitlist status entitled us to dine for lunch once a month at this CCRC (and you could also bring 2 guests with you). Since Covid, this feature of the waitlist has been suspended -- we don't expect to have any free lunches for a while there.

Since we moved to Charlotte in 2014, the number of new assisted living facilities and CCRCs has increased significantly and established CCRCs have expanded their facilities, especially adding greater skilled nursing care space and beds. I think this expansion of skilled nursing care on established CCRC campuses reflects the aging population of given campuses and better managed health care that keeps us living much longer than in the past.

If I were looking for a newer CCRC, I'd seriously consider this one in my area:https://generationsatshalompark.com/. New facilities do have distinct advantages, as the class of new residents are likely to be much younger on average than at established CCRC and, of course, there's something to be said about "new."

 

[2retireearly]

We came across one for my MIL about 6 years ago. She was still mobile so she moved into a single family home kicking and screaming. Her old house had a pool, giant yard and was old and always needing repairs. We convinced her this would be much better.

It is. No more maintenance. Anything goes wrong they fix it quick. She can cook if she likes but before COVID she was going to the dining room every night to meet new people. Then COVID hit. But the CCRC took good care of her and delivered meals every day for her. They provide transportation if needed. They have motion sensors in the house and emergency pull thingies.

So far so good.

Now she is in need of more care and looking at moving into assisted living at some point. Well, her CCRC assisted living is full. She has to go to a sister facility which is not near as nice. Huh? $600k buy in, $10,000 / mo for assisted living and she has to go to a different, crappy CCRC? We are feeling ripped off at this point. And she is staying in her house and using in home care to live. She has COPD and still smokes and is alcoholic, so this is not going to end well. She wants to hold out in the house until she dies. Nice thought, but she doesn't control that.

Anyway, ask about that as you are looking. What happens if you move in to an apartment and five years later need assisted living and their place is full.

I had a similar nightmare with my parents. They moved to one. Lived independently, in nice apartment..my mom died soon after moving in. Dad did ok on his own..but a year later he had more and more health issues. Independent living meant I needed to be there all the time. When I tried to get him into assisted care, they were full. So I had to look elsewhere .he died after more scary health issues. But what a nightmare, to not be able to moved to the assisted living, in the same complex!

 

[craigwillie]

Shell Point

Shell Point - Ft Myers, FL

700 acres on the gulf. 6 neighborhoods, 2500 residents.

Just opened a 200,000 sq ft medical center on-site today.

Earlier this year, the Tribby Art Center opened with a 400 seat performing arts theatre.

www.shellpoint.org

 

[Sun456]

We have been researching also. Some of the contract terms are appalling. Some places seem reasonably fair. I am leaning toward the non-buy in full service places after reading the contracts but there were a few I thought seemed to be structured favorably. My top CCRC choice for us was:
https://www.homesteadvillage.org/about-us

I liked their 'Home Care' program where you can hire help through them to stay in your own home.
https://www.homesteadvillage.org/home-care/
If you are in an apt. you can convert to assisted living and stay in the same apartment, no moving. I like this also.

They also had alot of gluten free menu items printed on the menu. Very important for those of us with special diets.

Many places I looked at required you to move to the next level of residence to get additional help. This means the facility gets another buy-in, and often they don't have to give you your refund yet, if you bought in at a refundable level. I didn't like the motivation this gave them. If they had a budget shortfall, pick a few people to move to a higher level whether they needed it or not, and get a cash infusion.

One place in Washington State said they wouldn't allow you to receive benevolent care if you ran out of money and had hired in-home help. What?!?

Several places charged you excessive fees whenever you moved residences. So $10K to go from your cottage to apt. Another $10K to go to assisted living. Another $10K to go to memory care. Another $10K to go to skilled nursing. This was on top of a hefty entrance fee. Any place pulling this stunt was taken off my list. For two people progressing through the facility this would really add up.

The one thing that became clear after reading a number of contracts and disclosure statements was that there was no commonality. Even when comparing type A to type A.

For any place you are seriously considering get a copy of their disclosure statement, contract and residential handbook. Read every word of them. Some places seemed to have terms that advocated for the residents. Other's had terms that felt like every single term was in favor of the facility and nothing was in the resident's favor.

 

[nwsteve]

The one thing that became clear after reading a number of contracts and disclosure statements was that there was no commonality. Even when comparing type A to type A.

For any place you are seriously considering get a copy of their disclosure statement, contract and residential handbook. Read every word of them. Some places seemed to have terms that advocated for the residents.

+1000
Furthermore, if your natural instincts are not to read "fine print" find someone to do it for you. It will save you from unpleasant surprises. Also, as part of your selection process be sure to visit with existing residents to learn what they learned and resources they used. We learned from residents that several had attorneys review final docs & help them understand the language. Important a prospective resident appreciate your contracts are written by attorneys for the property's protection NOT your wellbeing!

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

We have not heard from the OP in a while. I realize you don't have geographical restrictions, @ImaCheesehead. However, since you are a cheesehead, have you taken a look at St. John's on the Lake? https://www.saintjohnsmilw.org

(This is our aspirational plan.)

 

[harllee]

CCRC is really our only option as we have no children and siblings are too close to us in age.

We'll keep our eyes open. In our early to mid 60s now.

Audrey--don't wait too long to get on the waiting list. Where I am the nice CCRCs have wait lists of 10 years.

 

[Lsbcal]

After reading some of this thread I come away with 2 ideas:

1) Keep up our healthy living style i.e. good quality foods, moderation, and exercise
2) Stay invested in a good helping of stocks because we might need a bundle to outbid the other oldies who need CCRC's

That last one refers to people who excessively reduce their risks (too much bonds and cash) thinking they don't need all that much because the house is paid for and they don't spend a whole lot.

 

[rb460]

I live in a good to great CCRC

You do your kids a favor when you move into a CCRC. My wife's Mother was here for five years 1989 to 1995 with good experience in Assisted Living and in an Alzheimer unit. DW became very aware of the care demands she was relieved of.
We moved into a new 1400 square foot apartment 5 years ago at age 76. The amount to buy in was expensive I thought. Compared to other areas it is almost reasonable. The monthly fee has increased by an average of 3 to 4 per cent each year. We have 2 walk-in closets to accommodate 2 bedrooms as well as extra storage. Other amenities are a small kitchen and 10 ft ceilings. we also have parking in an enclosed garage.

We have a Clubhouse within 100 feet of our apartment building. It contains !. a full service restaurant 2. a cafe for more casual dining. 3. My favorite is a pub with casual dining 4. an Aquatic Center 5. a Fitness Center with an Aerobics Room.

The major selling point was locking in my medical costs from the start. If the wife needs assisted living or nursing home care (or if it is for me) My monthly will be the same. We do have a brand new assisted living and nursing facility.

 

[Scuba]

Nice places which require no buy-ins and have on campus transitions from independent to assisted to full nursing care are called CCRC's. The financial arrangements (contracts) are a separate issue.



You might want to check your understanding of the financial models. You've made some statements (perhaps I'm misunderstanding) that indicate you may have some misunderstanding of terminology, etc.

I was also in the Eldercare industry and your comment is incorrect, at least in California. There are rental CCRC’s that don’t require an entrance fee, but there are also rental communities that offer a progression of care but are NOT CCRC’s.

 

[Scuba]

There is another model in CA called RCFE’s - Residential Care Facilities for the Elderly. These are different than CCRC’s in that they don’t have entrance fees and may not offer the full continuum of care. However some RCFE’s do have all levels of care but just don’t charge entrance fees.

http://caassistedliving.org/about-assisted-living/assisted-living-in-california/

 

[BarbWire]

CCRC is really our only option as we have no children and siblings are too close to us in age.

We'll keep our eyes open. In our early to mid 60s now.

Similar situation: no children, no close family in North America, and close friends are as old or older than I. A CCRC is in my future.



My parents were in an upscale CCRC in Texas for a while, and I learned a few things to be aware of when I review future CCRCs:

1. Don't wait too long. In their mid 80s, my parents couldn't qualify medically for their first choice CCRC where their friends and neighbors lived. (Dad = mobility/arthritis, Mom=Dementia)

2. The second choice CCRC could decide when the resident would move from one level to the next. My father, with severe arthritis, eventually and grudgingly moved from the nice 2BR apartment to 1 BR in Assisted Living. They then decided he needed too much mobility assistance (getting up/dressing, bathing, and occasionally help with his walker) and that he would thus be moved to Skilled Nursing: his life would shrink to a hospital room. I got him out of there, brought him back to his house, and took care of him there with hired help. It took about a year to get back the 95% of his buy-in.

3. The CCRC must have a "responsible party" to call for almost any medical incident, including falling without injury and needing assistance to get up. (We had that a lot with my arthritic father). If the resident is put in an ambulance for any reason (we had this with my mother), a packet of paperwork is strapped to the stretcher and the CCRC waves goodbye: the resident wasn't their responsiblity at that point, and the responsible party was called. (Not much good when I was a on trip 1000 miles away). In short, the CCRC will not serve "in loco parentis."

So I'm not sure what I will do about a "responsible party". That's part of my thinking about putting together a "solo geezer' team of doctors, estate/eldercare lawyer, accountant, emergency person-on-call ....


In my mid-60s, so I better start looking and perhaps get on a waiting list. Or two. Or three. I don't want to move into a CCRC until my 80s, though.

 

[bzribee]

You do your kids a favor when you move into a CCRC. My wife's Mother was here for five years 1989 to 1995 with good experience in Assisted Living and in an Alzheimer unit. DW became very aware of the care demands she was relieved of.
We moved into a new 1400 square foot apartment 5 years ago at age 76. The amount to buy in was expensive I thought. Compared to other areas it is almost reasonable. The monthly fee has increased by an average of 3 to 4 per cent each year. We have 2 walk-in closets to accommodate 2 bedrooms as well as extra storage. Other amenities are a small kitchen and 10 ft ceilings. we also have parking in an enclosed garage.

We have a Clubhouse within 100 feet of our apartment building. It contains !. a full service restaurant 2. a cafe for more casual dining. 3. My favorite is a pub with casual dining 4. an Aquatic Center 5. a Fitness Center with an Aerobics Room.

The major selling point was locking in my medical costs from the start. If the wife needs assisted living or nursing home care (or if it is for me) My monthly will be the same. We do have a brand new assisted living and nursing facility.

Could you say the name/location of where you live? I may have missed it if you posted it previously.

 

[JoeWras]

3. The CCRC must have a "responsible party" to call for almost any medical incident, including falling without injury and needing assistance to get up. (We had that a lot with my arthritic father). If the resident is put in an ambulance for any reason (we had this with my mother), a packet of paperwork is strapped to the stretcher and the CCRC waves goodbye: the resident wasn't their responsiblity at that point, and the responsible party was called. (Not much good when I was a on trip 1000 miles away). In short, the CCRC will not serve "in loco parentis."

Too many senior living places ship people out in ambulances too fast. I think you hit on the reason why: passing responsibility.