Hawaii

[Dd852]

I've seen people posting recently about relocating from Hawaii ... how about to? At least part time? We live overseas but DW has started agitating about having our foot in the US in HI. I love the place for sure...but the cost of living makes me a bit apprehensive. And taxes seem a bit on the high side too, though presumably we could avoid those if we stay less than half a year. Anyone who has FIREd in Hawaii care to give some of the pluses and minuses and your overall feeling about whether it's a good idea?

[DrRoy]

I have visited there and also love it, but I agree it would be an expensive place to live. Hawaii never shows up on lists of recommended places to retire.

[Ready]

If my partner was more excited about it, we would be moving to the Big Island. We spent a lot of time last month looking at homes there and found the perfect one.

We love the Kohala coast, and specifically the Mauna Lani resort area. We would buy a plan 4 Kamilo (Kamilo Floor Plans – New Homes in Hawaii) fully furnished and just move in with our overnight bag and call it our new home.

If money were no object, I suppose we would make this our second home and split our time between Hawaii and Southern California. However, the HOA's in this community are $1,400 per month. And with electricity costing more than any other state in the US, plus insurance, property taxes, and utilities, we would be running over $2,500 per month just in overhead, not including the purchase price of the home itself (around $1.1M).

We have also looked at renting the unit out while not there, which is a viable option as they are very popular. But it adds a layer of complication in our lives that I'm not sure we are ready for.

My hope is to find three other couples who would like to buy with us, and we split the purchase price and monthly overhead four ways. Then we would not need to rent it out to offset the costs. It would have to be people we enjoy spending time with and have similar thoughts on financial matters with. I suppose that may be wishful thinking to find that though.

Or, we could just sell our home in So Cal and move there full time. But again, while I'm ready to move tomorrow, my other half isn't there (yet).

[redshift]

Like Ready, we love the Kohala coast of the Big Island. We ended up buying a place in Mauna Lani, and plan live there up to half the year starting next year. We also had hoped to do a fractional purchase with a few others, and actually got to the contract drafting stage a couple of times. 'The devil is in the details'. It is VERY difficult to get 3 or 4 parties to agree on the many provisions needed to make it work. We found that there was always at least one party who had unreasonable expectations, especially re: time of use and eventual selling of the property. That said, it has been done successfully many times.

Yes, Hawaii is expensive, but not much more expensive than parts of CA or the Seattle area. They have Costcos and WalMarts on all major Islands now (but sadly, no Trader Joes ;^). It's true that Hawaii is not on lists of affordable retirement locations, but it is on lists of ultimate retirement locations. Hawaii now has the highest average lifespan in the US, although that is likely skewed some by the mostly active folks who live/move there.

[NW-Bound]

Having been to the islands of Hawaii several times, I have to say the weather is very nice, but I would develop island fever.

[Kimo]

I know others will make it to this post but I thought I would start. I moved to Hawaii in 1980 and retired there 4 years ago. We recently moved back the the home we had built in Nevada years ago. (We rented it while in Hawaii, helped the retirement) We love it there but you really need to know the COL is much higher than you think. We paid 400.00 a month to have the lawn mowed twice a month. The electricity bill for 2 was 400.00 a month. Now that I have a few years of data in Quicken I can tell you that the difference in groceries is 55%. (NV vs. HI) The cost of any labor is so much more than here. And real estate, LOL! We actually looked at buying a condo in Ko Olina that was very nice, 2 bedroom for about 1.2 million. If we sold our house and paid for the condo in cash it would only cost us 3500.00 a month to live there because of all the fees.

I say all this while trying out how to get there for January because after all, the weather really is what it was all about for us!

[Bamaman]

If you're looking for great weather, there's always Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

But there, you've got to have burglar bars on all your windows, doors and even around your carport.

[CaliKid]

I really appreciate this thread as Hawaii is definitely in my top 5. I considered it to be a little more expensive than California but it sounds like it's significantly more. May just have to travel there more once I retire. I do love it there.

[Ready]

When we shopped at the Costco, I found the prices in Hawaii to be exactly, to the penny, the same price as California. For my birthday I wanted pumpkin pie, and we picked up a pie at Costco that was big enough to feed 12 people for $5.99. And it was very tasty!

The few times we had to shop at the local "Foodland", I was quite shocked at the prices. But I think that has more to do with those stores taking advantage of a captive audience near the resorts more than anything else. The Target, Walmart and Safeway all seem about the same price as California for most things.

So I think it's possible to control your grocery and household expenses if you shop exclusively at Costco, or maybe Walmart/Target. But if you go to the smaller markets, prepare to be ripped off.

It makes me wonder, is Costco making any money pricing things in Hawaii the same as the mainland, or are they just running their stores on the Hawaiian islands as a perk to their members. And if they are making a profit, why are the local stores charging so much more for the same stuff? Legitimate higher costs or just being opportunistic?

A whole pineapple at Costco was $2.99. The same pineapple at the local stores was $8.00. Pretty ridiculous.

[Dd852]

Thanks all for the replies

[Koolau]

There are several threads on moving to/living in Hawaii. Nords had a really good one, but I'm lousy at using the search function.

We have found that the only real deal killer for folks of a bit above average means is housing. On Oahu, if you insist on living in a 3/2 house or condo (1600 to 2000SF) with AC) near the beach, you will either pay (starting at) $1+ mil. or pay upwards of (starting at) $3500/mo. In addition you may well pay $700 to $1500 for an HOA. Moving away from amenities can cut these prices somewhat.

If you can live in in a 2/2 condo (1000SF) with a little age on it (like we do) you might buy in for less than $600K (even less, really) with HOA dues of $500 to $700 or rent of $2200 and up. Actually, if you shop and can live in a bit less desirable neighborhood - further from the beach - prices go down into the upper 300's to 400's - depending.

Okay, now that housing is taken care of: If you decide you want to live in Paradise, you can make it work. Shop at Costco. Consider having one car (not two) or, better yet on Oahu, don't have a car at all - you really can get by though it can be time consuming to get anywhere. Live simply - limited "toys", used furniture, no AC (we do that), don't eat out a lot, taylor your taxes to the advantages (see below). Use electricity wisely - Our HECO bill is NEVER more than $80, though we know folks who pay $400 and up. It's all a mater of what you are willing to give up (like AC - the Trades blow through and we suffer only a few really miserable days each year - mostly in summer if the Trades die for a while.)

State Taxes - HI has actually relatively low RE taxes. On our roughly $500K condo (or maybe its now $600) I think we pay maybe $1500/year. Retiree Pensions AND Social Security (and some withdrawals from 401(k)s are state-tax exempt - don't trust me on this - check for yourself as YMMV.) The GET tax (for practical purposes it's a sales tax) is less than 5% (at point of purchase.) You DO pay whatever taxes were added along the way in the price of whatever you buy - one reason prices are higher here on many things. The GET is sort of a VAT tax - only sneakier (IMO).

Most consumer goods start at about 1/3 higher than in the heartland (groceries, pet food, appliances, etc.) BUT, Sams and Costco take most of the sting out if you can find what you want there. There are always USED items for sale (food, not so much, heh, heh.) Turnover of folks on the Island (think Military) means stuff is always available on Craigslist and other places.

Island Fever (AKA Rock Fever) - This is a personal thing. If you don't think you can survive within a space of 600 square miles, you might not make it here. We visit the Mainland once a year and that keeps Rock Fever completely at bay. YMMV

Long story short - If you can live in Cali, you should be able to live in Hawaii - with money left over (depending on what you will settle for.) Again, YMMV.

[Dd852]

Thanks for a very thoughtful answer

[fishnfool]

I agree with Koolau that the prices and costs of living in Hawaii are very comparable to much of California. Gov't pensions are not taxed in HI and that is a plus if you have one. Our long term plan has been to retire there so we invested there many years ago. Our retirement home has been a good rental that has turned into a great rental so we may keep it rented and buy another property there in 3 to 4 years to live in.

Aloha

[heyyou]

Look into more affordable Hilo on the Big Island (BI). Maybe skip the Puna hinterlands 15 miles away from there.

On BI, Kilauea-Kona is too warm (needs A/C) and too expensive, but the temperature drops as the elevation rises higher on the side of the mountain. The climate is far different (cloud forest) 5-10 road miles higher from the Costco, which is already far from downtown K-K.

On Big Island, as elsewhere, look at the vegetation for clues about temperature and precipitation.

Rent for a year there while looking at properties. Consider that your new retirement hobby, shopping for where you want to live since you no longer have to live near w*rk.

[GusLevy]

My relationship with Hawaii has been a passionate burst of fits and starts in the past 10yrs. I retired in 2010 at 39 and was all set to move to Keauhou or somewhere in the coffee elevation near Holualoa in 2010. Was about to buy a property in Keauhou Estates until my last trip to confirm the deal scared me out of the deal given all the work that the property needed - nothing major but enough for the gut to say walk.

Have been to the islands prob 10 times since 2008: all the big four islands at least twice. Big Island is prob my fave due to the disparity of having isolation while having a lot of free space. Kauai is awesome but not being able to circle the island makes it a non-starter. Maui has always felt somewhat sterile for me - have checked out every nook and cranny of that island but I've never felt passion there. Of course, give me a free condo on Napili and I wouldn't say no!

I never considered planting roots in Oahu since it is so crowded...but as time went on the basics of healthcare, social opportunities, commerce and activities of a downtown, etc. have me leaning there now.

I don't want to hijack the OP's intent on this thread but I have a few questions for Oahu residents as well.

1. How easy has it been to make really good friends to socialize with - esp those in middle age territory? I am an introvert by nature though appear to be a regular social guy on the outside so I don't need constant friends and activities but would like a few core friends to hang out with, golf, etc. Hawaii seems to be notorious for outsiders to break into the established cliques for many obvious reasons.

2. I envision a typical day as one where I live in a place like Kailua, go play in the water, hike, or golf, then come home to catch up on the world, go get a dinner in town, chill out with the lady...and then do it over again the next day - and be perfectly content to pretty much do this for as long as the body is strong. For retirees in a relatively comfortable situation in a place like Oahu how much of daily life is 1) spontaneous, 2) doing things that you like over and over, or 3) dreadfully having no idea most days on how to entertain yourself even in Paradise?

[Dd852]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusLevy I don't want to hijack the OP's intent on this thread but I have a few questions for Oahu residents as well.

Hijack away! Great questions

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusLevy 1. How easy has it been to make really good friends to socialize with - esp those in middle age territory? I am an introvert by nature though appear to be a regular social guy on the outside so I don't need constant friends and activities but would like a few core friends to hang out with, golf, etc. Hawaii seems to be notorious for outsiders to break into the established cliques for many obvious reasons. 2. I envision a typical day as one where I live in a place like Kailua, go play in the water, hike, or golf, then come home to catch up on the world, go get a dinner in town, chill out with the lady...and then do it over again the next day - and be perfectly content to pretty much do this for as long as the body is strong. For retirees in a relatively comfortable situation in a place like Oahu how much of daily life is 1) spontaneous, 2) doing things that you like over and over, or 3) dreadfully having no idea most days on how to entertain yourself even in Paradise?

1. Your first impression of local people is that they are very friendly. Most folks "drive with aloha" (put your turn signal on and someone will let you pull in front of them.) Meeting folks on the street or in a store, etc. you would thing making friends would be easy. BUT, making "close" friends of local folks can be very difficult. My take on it is that these local folks have been "burned" by getting close to us haole (generically, that means "foreigner.") Many haole get Rock Fever and return to the mainland or elsewhere - breaking a friendship in the process.

You can get lucky like we did. We met a haole married to a local girl in our first housing complex. We have remained friends ever since. In fact, we were invited to their extended Hawaiian-Chinese family luau for Christmas dinner with them last night.

The BEST way to meet people is through a traditional "association" of folks (church, club, service group, etc.) We have many friends through church, for instance. We also have many friends we have met through living in our "egg-crate" condo building. Full disclosure, the folks in the building are all haole like we are - from Cali. to ChiTown to Mass. etc.

So it is possible to make friends here. To some extent, YOU have to fit in, adopting as much of the culture as you can, being a student of what is appropriate, BEING a friend (just like anyplace else!), loving Hawaii, loving the ocean, loving the aina (land). If you have to fake it, you may not belong in Hawaii. Not everyone does - and there is no shame in deciding you don't belong ("Know thyself").

2. Heh, heh, a LOT of "what to do in Hawaii as a retiree" is just "what to do as a retiree." If, like us, you come from the middle of the mainland, you can picture Hawaii as "just like home" except it's always summer, you are 1 to 10 miles from the ocean instead of 2000 miles, your back yard is up against a mountain instead of 1000 miles from mountains, you can virtually pick the weather you like by what part of an island you live on (no winter, unless you pick Big Island or Maui).

You can pick your "era" by the Island you choose (Molokai is 1950's, Big Island is 1960's, Kauai is 1970's, Maui is 1980's/90's and Oahu is about 5 years behind Cali.

So for us, we have "planned" events (revolving around friends, church, etc.) at least 4-5 days of every week. We also DO spontaneous - especially eating out or going to the beach, learning a new neighborhood, cruising the real-estate open houses, etc. I do like to play on the computer and she likes to do crafts, cross-words, read. I can't recall being bored since the last time I was snowed in back on the mainland.

IF you fit the life-style here (and it is varied, so difficult to define) you can be as happy or more happy than on the mainland. IF you bring "baggage" with you (Hawaii most likely will not cure old hurts, couple issues, money problems, etc.) you can be just as miserable as anyplace else. Always remember that where ever you live, YOU are there. I just think of Hawaii as "home" but more-so.

Hope this helps. Best advice I have to offer (and recall that it is FREE advice): Rent for a year, maybe move around Islands or at least within an Island. Sample everything. Immerse yourself in the culture. Keep your expectations in check. Go with the Island flow. Know yourself.

In all of this, remember that YMMV.