Help vs take for granted vs taking advantage

[FindingForward]

I have no advice, but I sympathize with you.

Your story strikes a similar sound to ours:
I could be wrong, but it seems to me our DD has married a pretty inept and lazy fellow that likes to play sports but not do any work around the house, even outside. He goes from lower skilled jobs to other lower skilled jobs and has not improved himself. His idea of a fantastic job is one paying $25/hr.
The good side is he loves her, and is kind. We have no indication of a bad marriage.

I sympathize and certainly can't speak to your SIL's laziness factor outside of work, lol. But just wanted to send a shout out to my fellow peeps who are also average earners. To us, 52k/year ($25/hr) IS a decent salary - maybe not fantastic, but close to average in many areas. In quite a few areas, it's actually the HHI avg. Most people I know earn about that or maybe 10-20k more. These are hard workers with higher level skills or college degrees.

There are so many successful execs, docs, attorneys and other high dollar earners here, I can understand how 52k could seem lacking.

Of course - I'm sidetracking the thread - what OP describes is definitely NOT cool at all - hoping they can resolve it.

 

[Jerry1]

I like the idea of explaining to them that you, too, need a break. Scoot out for the weekend and recharge. If they’re not committed enough to the program to get through a weekend, then the future doesn’t look so good anyway.

I don’t want to poop in the punch bowl, but I’m very concerned whether or not SIL will get through this program. And, even if he does if he’ll get a job. I recommend bracing yourself for what could be a tough love situation. It’s never easy to stand your ground (as in go back home at some point and stop helping them at this level) but I see some hard choices in your future. I wish you well.

 

[Katsmeow]

We are staying with them - our home is 1,000 miles away

That does make it more difficult. But -- if your "shift" ends at 3 or 4 PM then quit doing work at that time. The two of you could just leave the house and go out for the evening. Or go to your room and read, etc. Just tell your daughter and son-in-law that you aren't available in the evenings. Or, alternatively, say that if they need you in the evening then you aren't available in the mornings. They can't make you work for them.

If finances permit it might help a lot for you to not stay with them. Go find an AirBnB and stay there and just come over for your "shift."

Concern about pushing back - that husband does not make it through training meeting all requirements.

Training program is unique in that, hiring “parters” are very involved, etc. They help with interviewing skills, etc as well.

I’d like to have that meeting - and set boundaries better. Risk is that husband remains unemployed, unmotivated or insufficiently ambitious to land reasonable employment.

None of those things are your problems to solve. If you want to keep with the status quo for now then I would probably sit them down and tell them that in 4 weeks you need to go home, then do that. In the meantime, arrange for at least 3 nights a week that you are "off". Tell them you need your personal time.

 

[Aiming_4_55]

Help vs take for granted vs taking advantage.... probably a bit of each.

Hang in there, it's almost over.

A few suggestions - replace with your personal preference of activity.

Take inventory of supply of diapers, wipes, etc., agree that you and spouse will go shopping for said items, but will be a few hours. Before shopping, you two spend a few hours at a park relaxing or catching a movie.

Look up a friend close by and make plans to visit with them. Depending on the distance, that can be an afternoon, a day, or weekend. =)

Mother's day is coming up... take your wife on a date and spa treatment, then nice snack or meal.

 

[MarieIG]

From reading the posts, DD is not currently working outside the home - so, there is always someone who is available to watch the kids.

Keep an eye on the diapers and when they are low tell your DD she either has to order them and have them delivered; or run to the store and buy them.

Forget about the meeting with DSIL, you're not going to change him. Tell your DD a day in advance, you and your DW are taking a day off, you're exhausted; and if it is 4:00 o'clock - simply hand her back the babies. She's not the first mother (parent) to have two young children, and won't be the last.

You can do some laundry - but not all of it. You can do some cooking - but not all of it.

As far as DSIL stepping up to the plate - that is between him and his wife. You are there to help your daughter - and you are, but you will need to gently but firmly take some of your time back (and stop buying the diapers).

 

[rodi]

Husband is very challenged to not have “personal” time. Our daughter sacrifices everything.

It sounds like husband is putting much more priority on his personal time, at the expense of your personal time.

Agree with others that, if you can afford it, get an airbnb or some such.

Agree with the suggestions that you take note of inventory (food, diapers, etc) and offer to pick up - when you are done with some of your "personal time". Go see a movie, have a meal out, whatever... get out of the house and away from the chaos periodically.

Agree with the others that you should not talk to daughter or SIL about what their arrangements are. That's for them to work out. Not every couple does traditional roles... we certainly flexed on childcare and household chores based on who had bigger work demands at the time.

But it definitely sounds like boundaries are needed. That's where the airbnb or down time out of the house at a movie/park/whatever will help.

It's unclear to me if your daughter is working from home or out of the house... If she's out of the house, then you should hand off the duties within 30 minutes of her arrival home each night.

 

[38Chevy454]

One key i have not seen mentioned, besides setting expectations for the work hours now, is to set a firm exit date after the 4 week course is completed. Until then, let DD and SIL know what you will work. But make sure to have the understanding of the exit plan.

 

[tb001]

Is this second training the end or are there more in sight? And what will their lives look like if he actually gets the job he’s training for? I can’t imagine it’s significantly easier.

Like others, I’m confused about whether your daughter is home or not. From your post it sounds like three people (you, your wite and DD) are taking care of the two children? Why is running out for diapers or milk such an issue?

Fwiw, as someone with two young kids who are two years apart, I commend you for stepping in and helping out. Those first few months with #2 are HARD, especially with a spouse who’s working a lot of hours. We were really lucky to have help in the form of a nanny and night nurse. I might have lost my mind otherwise.

That said, it sounds like you have a natural breaking point. One that will come as things should start to get a little easier for your DD. Use it. I don’t think you’re being taken advantage of, but at the same time you aren’t letting them get through it on their own as a nuclear family unit and I think there’s value there.

 

[Sunset]

I sympathize and certainly can't speak to your SIL's laziness factor outside of work, lol. But just wanted to send a shout out to my fellow peeps who are also average earners. To us, 52k/year ($25/hr) IS a decent salary - maybe not fantastic, but close to average in many areas. In quite a few areas, it's actually the HHI avg. Most people I know earn about that or maybe 10-20k more. These are hard workers with higher level skills or college degrees.

There are so many successful execs, docs, attorneys and other high dollar earners here, I can understand how 52k could seem lacking.

Of course - I'm sidetracking the thread - what OP describes is definitely NOT cool at all - hoping they can resolve it.

You know as I wrote it, I did think lots of people get buy on a $25/hr job. But my SIL really thinks it's fantastic , had he said it was OK/good I'd agree.
If he would work on getting some skill that had earning potential it would be better, but he is content to get a job, and when he gets laid off, look for another job.

At least for the OP, the husband is doing something to improve. Hopefully it's a valid and good path to follow.

 

[retire48in2018]

This should be final training session.

We will take this weekend out of town. And stay until end of training plus a couple days.

Thanks for all feedback.

 

[gayl]

My 2c:

get a VRBO

Realize that you have a J-O-B and treat it as such. You need to clock in when he starts the online class and clock out the minute it is over each day. What they do until the next online class starts is their business. Otherwise you will start resenting him. From someone who has been in your shoes (and currently watches an 8yo while they work)

 

[Librarian]

Appears you did what I was going to advise.
Stay until training is done & then you are DONE.

 

[KarenF]

We are in a similar position - we moved to be closer to my son and his wife with 2 small kids. However, they are very mindful of us not getting burned out. Our son works full time for a law firm and is in law school at night. Our DIL is an accounting manager. Since they are both working they do have childcare. We make dinner 2 or 3 times a week, take the kids on weekends sometimes and help at their house a few times a week. This last weekend our son had finals and DIL was out of town at a bachelorette party so we had both kids all weekend. Our son did come over in the afternoons. We were tired at the end of the weekend. It is fair to tell them when you are tired and your son in law seems overwhelmed or maybe depressed, or maybe just unmotivated. I would stick with the help until he finishes his class and then lay out some ground rules.
Editing to add that after we retired we were not planning to move but our son asked us and we did move - bought a house 6 miles away from them. We can go help them and come home Both grandkids have their own room at our house.
One more edit - we see from law school that sometimes our son's brain is fried and he needs some downtime. That is reasonable - if the training is very intense some downtime is warranted to recover. SIL may not be engaging because you are there. Just consider the intensity of the training and the dynamic.

 

[frances]

Concern about pushing back - that husband does not make it through training meeting all requirements.

Training program is unique in that, hiring “parters” are very involved, etc. They help with interviewing skills, etc as well.

I’d like to have that meeting - and set boundaries better. Risk is that husband remains unemployed, unmotivated or insufficiently ambitious to land reasonable employment.

Sorry, but it seems to me that y'all are enabling husband in his laziness. Previous comments stated that he uses non-training time to play video games and such instead of interacting with his family.
Nope.
IMO he needs to put on his big boy pants, step it up, and take care of his family. If he ends up in a different job because he washes out of this training then so be it.

And is is really worth having your "retirement" spent this way?
Oh, I understand that you're "visiting" with your grandkids, helping your daughter, all that, but it seems to me things have gone a little far beyond what you signed up for.

Time for that hard conversation, IMO.

 

[folly]

Boundaries and commitments

You made a commitment to stay while he is taking his 8 wk class. Tell them you need three days off to explore the area and relax. They need to find daycare for those three days. You might have to help pay for it but don't volunteer, make them ask. Make it their Christmas present. Pay for 4 days of daycare or a house cleaner every week instead of buying them presents. Your three days you should leave early and return late. Meanwhile I would have a discussion with my daughter about making chore schedules that everyone agrees to. They have to figure this out before you leave.

 

[SecretlyFI]

This should be final training session.

We will take this weekend out of town. And stay until end of training plus a couple days.

Thanks for all feedback.

I might not add any more days at the end of the training.

 

[HMMY]

There's nothing you can do about SIL's lack of ambition or laziness with respect to parenting. There's nothing you can do about your daughter's lack of organizational skills or poor choice in spouse. I would fulfill your committed time but not return without setting up ground rules. Next time, perhaps have them fly the kids to you if they need extended babysitting and you're willing. At least, you won't have to take care of two adults as well as two children.

 

[FLJim]

Enablers are the nicest people on the face of the earth. When you enable bad behavior, you get more of it. Those that are being enabled eventually become to feel entitled. The longer it goes on, the harder it is for the enabler to end the abuse. Go home. You will be surprised how well they begin to cope and maybe even grow up. Tough love wins over enabling.

 

[youbet]

With 1 income, and 2 kids under 1.5 years old and with husband training (maybe 60 hours a week?) - we decided to help.

Who made the first move? Did you offer to come live with them temporarily without being asked? Or did your DD come to you and ask for the help?

In any case, you're almost done. That makes this a silly time to blow things up. Why not just finish, go home and then check in with them from time to time in the years ahead? Since you live far away and therefore any further live-in involvement can easily be avoided, you really have no need for any confrontational moves now. I'm confident that if you make some kind of statement by leaving in a huff, making negative comments about their lifestyle or household organization or similar, you'll regret it later. Just go home at the agreed time and don't live with them again.

maybe I am just venting.

Yeah. You're tired. You're frustrated because they're not living life as you would. From our own experiences (both on the receiving help and giving help side of things) and from knowledge of how these arrangements worked out for others, you're experience is fairly typical. Stay calm. Figure out privately how to survive the next 3 weeks without impacting your health, etc., and then get out of town (leaving with graciousness, hugs and kisses!) and assume a much more arm's length relationship.

If, once you're back at home for a few weeks, you find yourself still dwelling on the kids' lifestyle issues (at least they're issues to you!) and can't get them off your mind, consider counseling.

 

[youbet]

When does this 2nd course end? Assuming it's a matter of weeks, and you've committed to it, I would just wait it out, and then go back home (and stay there).

+1. With 3 weeks to go, there is much to be lost and little to be gained by being confrontational. Since OP lives 1,000 miles from the kids, protection from future involvement will be simple.

 

[folly]

Most of us remember those in laws visits!

I feel the need to remind everyone that most of us remember parents and in-laws visiting when we were young. I always admired my in-laws for the type of guest they were and now try to be like that when visiting my kids. My in-laws lived in Europe, english was a second language, mother-in-law spoke well. Father-in-law had to think about what he said before he spoke, english was harder for him. They would stay a month when visiting. THEY, not my husband or I, set the unspoken boundaries. They waited for us to leave for work before they got up. They went to bed at least an hour to two before us which allows for personal time with the spouse. They cooked their own meals and had their dinner around 3:30. They figured out the bus system and went on adventures, entertaining themselves. They even went grocery shopping for themselves, saying they preferred shopping every few days to get the fresh meat and veg. We went out on the weekends together and cooked together when everyone was not working.
When my mother visited she was a pain, she woke up very early and was in the way. She waited for us to entertain her. She constantly said "I don't want to be in the way", or waited for permission to eat something out of the fridge. She complained about the food in the fridge, complained a lot, about everything. One time she insisted on buying her own groceries which overfilled the fridge. Then got angry because one of the kids ate her yogurt. It drove me crazy, as it felt like I had to be responsible for her, just like a kid. Adding additional stress to a house of stress. Just remember everyone, when you visit your kids...try to be independent. Airbnb's are good!

 

[ivinsfan]

folly, are some people missing a common sense gene? For example oldest daughter and hubby have two very demanding jobs and two youngish kids.



We love day or weekend visits and have an open invite. For weekends we have a bachelor friend that live 15 minutes away from daughter. We go to friend Friday do an adventure take him out to dinner.


Saturday and Sunday might be a mix of friend stuff and family stuff. We never stay past 1pm on a Sunday because I know they need a little down time before school and work on Monday. It's just common courtesy and if you don't have it I don't know how you get it!

 

[KarenF]

folly, are some people missing a common sense gene? For example oldest daughter and hubby have two very demanding jobs and two youngish kids.



We love day or weekend visits and have an open invite. For weekends we have a bachelor friend that live 15 minutes away from daughter. We go to friend Friday do an adventure take him out to dinner.


Saturday and Sunday might be a mix of friend stuff and family stuff. We never stay past 1pm on a Sunday because I know they need a little down time before school and work on Monday. It's just common courtesy and if you don't have it I don't know how you get it!

I think it is family specific. What works for one family might not work for another. For example, we have our son, daughter and the little ones over for dinner on Sunday frequently. They come over for a couple of hours, and can relax a little since we play with the kids. I make dinner and they head home to give the kids baths and put them to bed.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think it is family specific. What works for one family might not work for another. For example, we have our son, daughter and the little ones over for dinner on Sunday frequently. They come over for a couple of hours, and can relax a little since we play with the kids. I make dinner and they head home to give the kids baths and put them to bed.

They live close and appreciate not cooking my point is not that there is only one right way,but that it takes all of us to think about each other.

 

[Philliefan33]

I think it is family specific. What works for one family might not work for another. For example, we have our son, daughter and the little ones over for dinner on Sunday frequently. They come over for a couple of hours, and can relax a little since we play with the kids. I make dinner and they head home to give the kids baths and put them to bed.

This is the kind of relationship I want with my daughter and her family, which is why we are moving closer to them. In our current house we are 1.5 hours away, so visits consume a whole day. Our new house will be half an hour away, so we can pop over for an hour to watch the grandson while his parents go for a bike ride together, or just have them all over to our house for dinner once every couple of weeks.