Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

[limey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo! To quote 'Mike from Montreal': "I have hitherto intentionally refrained from posting to this thread expressly to avoid the potential of this happening."

Does anyone here object, I mean seriously object, when a poster, me for instance, points out the obvious?

Tell me REWahoo is there the slightest danger of this thread being derailed if one were to look at the posts made so far.

Yes or No?

And where, pray tell, are these (imaginary) trolls?

[maddythebeagle]

It looks like mike1/max/howard now have a new login known as limey. : :P

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limey CFB .. you sure seem to have trolls on the brain. I have read this tread with great interest and the subject is, and remains, socialized health care. True, Iraq and terrorists have been mentioned but strictly 'en passant' by two or three posters; purely incidental to this discussion. So get it through your brain that hitherto nobody has tried to derail the subject at hand. Unless I am mistaken you have an over-active imagination!

Limey, I want more posts from you. You used "en passant" and hitherto" in the same post.

I am thrilled.

Ha

[Cool Dood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords I'm impressed, TH. You managed to have Godwin's Law invoked within the first page of posts, and it was a totally unrelated non-political subject!

Didn't that thing die in 1999? Or was it just a persistent vegetative state...

[limey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa I am thrilled. Ha

So am I.

It is not everybody that is able to appreciate well written prose. Plus I figure the French might impress a few. Next time I will endeavour to throw in a little bit of Latin. That shows real class.

[unclemick]

Yep

The guy actually backed a 48 foot tractor down our suburban cul-de-sac. 2100 lbs in 75 lb boxes of Bellawood flooring - Australian Cypress. Had room in the truck - they could have tossed in a free kayak for the price - but they didn't.

Rats!

Heh heh heh - Do you think a Buddhist could relate this to MA Health insurance?

[kramer]

From the more thorough WSJ article (and I didn't see this point in any of the earlier links which is why I point it out). This clause, requiring payments for emergency care in some cases, seems like a massive new source of unpredictable liability for a small business.

Quote:

In another provision that stirred unease among some businesses, the proposed law would require companies with 11 or more employees to provide health coverage or pay a per-employee annual fee of $295. In addition, employers whose uninsured workers make multiple use of emergency room care -- "free riders," in the bill's parlance -- would have to pay between 10% and 100% of the portion of those medical bills exceeding $50,000.

This might also incentivize discrimination against older, part-time workers in lower paying jobs.

Kramer

[laurence]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limey Does anyone here object, I mean seriously object, when a poster, me for instance, points out the obvious? Tell me REWahoo is there the slightest danger of this thread being derailed if one were to look at the posts made so far. Yes or No? And where, pray tell, are these (imaginary) trolls?

Mike-1 is not easily dissuaded, it seems....

[wabmester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclemick The guy actually backed a 48 foot tractor down our suburban cul-de-sac. 2100 lbs in 75 lb boxes of Bellawood flooring - Australian Cypress.

Good choice! * Very pretty stuff. * *But a 48-ft truck? * I just had them dump a pallet of maple flooring in the back of my F350. * Loading was the easy part. * My back still hurts from unloading that sucker.

To keep this thread on topic, I'd just like to say thank gawd for WalMart, Lumber Liquidators, and Exxon. * *And who cares about universal health insurance? * Doctors still can't do a damn thing for me when I hurt my back carrying 2000lbs of flooring into the garage. * *Just give me a good back-support belt and keep my taxes low. *

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryan It'll never work!* When has gov regulation ever solved a problem. . . .

Well . . . government regulation solves a lot of problems. FDA does a lot to keep food and drugs safe, for example. It's not perfect. But without it, I don't know how we would be as well off. OSHA regulations have made the workplace safer for many workers. Again, there are inefficiencies, but the option is worse.

And in this case, you may not believe that gov regulation will solve the healthcare problem, but it should be clear that what we are doing now sure as he!! isn't working.

[lets-retire]

Socialized meidcine is not good. I've had it. It's called the military. They treat the symptoms until they go away. It was only when I became a civilian that many of the problems resulting from substandard treatment were corrected.

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire Socialized meidcine is not good.* I've had it.* It's called the military.* They treat the symptoms until they go away.* It was only when I became a civilian that many of the problems resulting from substandard treatment were corrected.

You don't have to focus only on socialized medicine to find cases of ineffective and inadequate medical care.

[yakers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgeeeee You don't have to focus only on socialized medicine to find cases of ineffective and inadequate medical care.* *

Like SG said, and in my life about the best medical care I've had was from Navy doctors. No time limits, worry about expensive tests and the like. Of course, being 25 helped a lot.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

If you read through the info, it appears some funds are being put aside for both proactive health care and a big chunk to reduce obesity. So it seems it might be premature to slide this program, as its intended, into the "HMO role" of just fixing the symptoms when its too late. At least at this point...if and when the funding shortfalls, I'd expect the "good proactive" stuff to buy the farm first.

As far as the quality of service...the poor get none or pay through the nose for it when they get sick and have no coverage...even for those WITH insurance, unless you're picking your own doctors and paying for what the insurance companies wont...you're getting reactive symptom suppression whether you're in the military or not.

Socialization and government regulations arent my bag either, but its possible that health care falls into the same bucket as roads and schools. If you leave it to the market to resolve, the rich and well employed will continue to do well at the suffrage of the unemployed and lower class, with the middle class getting slowly squeezed. The hospitals arent going to solve the problem.

The insurance companies arent going to solve the problem. In fact, they're making the problem worse. A while ago I proposed that excessive overhead and paperwork were a considerable drag...this program seems to support that...IIRC they're looking for a $2.2B cost savings from paperwork efficiency against a $10B total program cost? Jeez Louise!

SG is right. Without some government controls we'd all be driving 10mpg cars. People arent smart enough to make good long term decisions and the companies that enable them sure as hell arent going to step in and fix that problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR Now, let's talk about boobs or something...

It appears the boobs have already spoken.

Iraq, Walmart, Exxon and why america sucks are clearly right on topic and of course not designed to irritate. Like I said last week...it makes no sense to unload a gun when there are still good solid targets in view.

[Cool Dood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny If you read through the info, it appears some funds are being put aside for both proactive health care and a big chunk to reduce obesity.

Oh I get it, this is the first step to banning fast food. Smoking's been done, MA wants to beat CA, this looks kinda innocuous and "for the greater good," should be no objections to the first step.....

Like slowly boiling a frog. I guess that's the big problem with massive gov't stuff; not wasting a billion here or a billion there, not a few bozos who take a bit more out of a service than they're entitled to, but the way the gov't has at least a third of the population so tightly by the balls that they can gradually introduce anything they want, and not only will people let it slide, there'll be enough support for whatever good intentions they faked that most people will just thank the gov't for taking their money and blowing it, or restricting their freedoms, and anyone who doesn't go along is a "right-wing nut job"....

Really it's a lot like an advance fee fraud -- especially when the victims go looking around for other people to project the blame onto than the perpetrator of the fraud.

Oh well, it's not my MA...

[unclemick]

Hmmm

Bernstein postulated (Birth of Plenty) - it took King's need to finance wars via bonds to get 'free capital markets' really to rock.

The central difficulty to craft a health plan to reward 'good preventitive health practices' is still elusive. Other than the extent to which healthy individuals can comparison shop for rates.

To us true believers in Deming's Red Bead Experiment:

MA lastest shot at a solution will come down to red beads, white beads and the law of unintended consequences.

We'll know when we know - may take some time.

Out shopping - rates in MO beat LA - so I actually bought $5000 deductible BC/BS at the ripe old age of 62.

heh heh heh

[setab]

Martha,

I love Minnesota. When we used to live there, my wife and I always said we would move back there someday. However, it's gotten too expensive and it is definitely too cold in the winter. Plus, the older I get, the less I can think about moving again. So, great services or not, I think we will just visit, especially during walleye season!

setab

[lets-retire]

sgeeeee--You're absolutely correct. However, if the doctor I go to in the civilian sector proves to be an idiot, I can choose to go to a different one and the insurance still pays. In the military you are pretty much stuck with whoever they give you. You can go to a civilian doc, but unless the military referred you it comes out of your pocket.

[Eagle43]

I think all of y'all should move to MA. Take advantage of that free guvmint health coverage!

[Martha]

You guys that don't support a national healthcare system or more regulation of the insurance market, what do you propose?

Do you think things are fine the way they are?

Are you concerned about healthcare for the poor? If so, how would you provide the care?

What about those who are uninsurable? How would you address that problem?