Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

[Eagle43]

Why don't you make the last chapter " ER is not for everyone"? Then describe several people who are working into their 70s, 80s, and beyond. Compare them with someone who ER'd in 40s or 50s. Probably finish up with some version of Mikhail Csikszentmihalyi's (sp?) idea of Flow. That is, if you're actively engaged in something that's difficult, but not impossible, you are probably happier. You should have a reason to get up in the morning; something that you look forward to doing. And you can do that in retirement, as well as in work.

 

[ESRBob]

Thanks to all for your counsel. The book went to bed at midnight last night, and it includes a final chapter substantially optimistic yet tempered with editorial reason. You can see from all the opinions here why crazy writers have level-headed editors. Anyway, we stayed friends (I am married after all -- I know how to lose gracefully) and couched the upside of widespread ER in hypothetical and measured tones.

It was fun to go back and forth with her on some of the issues that get aired here all the time -- like why do so many people who could ER, and who say they would love to ER, fail to ER. She couldn't let me say the dominant opinions from the Board here -- that they are a bunch of weak-willed numbskulls who keep gettting sucked into buying more crud and thus can't afford to do it. Put through the editorial filter it came out much more as a 'lifestyle choice' with nothing negative said about the chief rats in the rat race. Probably a good thing

early-retirement.org got the first billing on the Acknowledgments page -- couldn't have done it without everybody here's ideas and input over the past few years-- it's really all of our book that I took the time to write down.

Thx all

 

[73ss454]

Good Luck Bob,
Hope everything works out the way you planned.
When can we start reading.

JOE

 

[Eagle43]

Did I miss a title? Or have you got one yet?

Good luck and hope you see a million.

 

[ESRBob]

The title is Work Less, Live More -- due out in Oct from Nolo Press. (It was reading here about Get A Life, Nolo's book on regular retirment by Ralph Warner, that put me on to them.)

From the financial p.o.v. I think of it as volunteer work; if it sells like a normal book, it will return something below minimum wage for the hours I put in during the past year, but it has been a lot of fun no matter what happens.

 

[yakers]

I love Get A Life and NOLO press seems like good people to me. I am not so big on retirement but I really agree with Financial Independence. Whenever I think of retiring the volunteer work I ponder like Habitat For Humanity or the Heifer Project all involve considerably more energy than I am expending on my current job. Somehow I have to learn to slow down. But doing something you liike and getting paid for it, sounds pretty good to me. I'll be looking for the book when it comes out.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I love Get A Life and NOLO press seems like good people to me. I am not so big on retirement but I really agree with Financial Independence. Whenever I think of retiring the volunteer work I ponder like Habitat For Humanity or the Heifer Project all involve considerably more energy than I am expending on my current job. Somehow I have to learn to slow down. But doing something you liike and getting paid for it, sounds pretty good to me. I'll be looking for the book when it comes out.

Is the "Heifer Project" another weight loss scam?

I am totally opposed to "Habitat for Humanity" Think it's a terrible idea.
OTOH, they are not using my money to fund it (yet). Just another
leftist liberal feel-good project. "Oh, look what I did. I am a good person"

JG

 

[Eagle43]

I am totally opposed to "Habitat for Humanity" Think it's a terrible idea.
OTOH, they are not using my money to fund it (yet). Just another
leftist liberal feel-good project. "Oh, look what I did. I am a good person"

JG

OH come on, JG, WHY? Even the recipients have to put in "sweat equity." As a good conservative, you can't knock that. And, as far as I know, the government doesn't fund it, with possible exception of some tax deductions. If we had more stuff like this, ala the Amish, maybe we'd be a better country. If it's privately funded, done by volunteers, with recipients pitching in, what's not to like? And if it makes the volunteers feel good, maybe they'll keep volunteering? Also, I'm sure that somewhere it annoys labor union types. Looks like win/win to me.

 

[maddythebeagle]

"Habitat for Humanity" is leftist? Maybe, my sister volunteered in a urban area and the recipient acted like the house wasnt big enough. The idea is to get the recipient to work on the house but the person didnt have much for skills and was asked to help clean up and balked at it. It is just another case of people thinking they are entitled.  I think a lot of young middle class live in apartments waiting to save enough for a down payment. Simply giving people a fish and not teaching them to fish wont get you anywhere.  

 

[HFWR]

Is the "Heifer Project" another weight loss scam?

Online dating service...

(For bulls...)

 

[HFWR]

If the beneficiary cannot help with the construction, give the home to someone else!

 

[maddythebeagle]

Back to your book. Your last chapter could be a WHOLE book 

I think another point that could be made is that saving is better for society than going into debt to consume (so many tapping home equity for new cars, etc). A sustainable economy is good for all.

 

[REWahoo]

... the Heifer Project...

Isn't this Trombone Al's failed bull sperm investment? If so, I can understand why it is too much work for you (all that moving around to attract the cow).

REW

 

[Nords]

The title is Work Less, Live More -- due out in Oct from Nolo Press.

From the financial p.o.v. I think of it as volunteer work; if it sells like a normal book, it will return something below minimum wage for the hours I put in during the past year, but it has been a lot of fun no matter what happens.

If writing paid well then no one would be reading...

Like a good nuke I immediately added the title to my reading list. Ironically the last book I added to my reading list was "The Art of Demotivation" written by Despair, Inc. founder E. L. Kersten.

Interesting ethics debates--
1. Does an ER need a book on ER? Probably not, so it's an entertainment expense. Does that conclusion mean that you should borrow the book from the library instead of buying it? The savings could go to Dory's server account or to Habitat for Humanity or to funding one's LTC expenses.

I finally decided that I'll buy the book and then donate it to my local library. After I've read it, of course.

2. Should a Young Dreamer buy a book on ER? After all, LBYM would advocate borrowing the book from the library but that would drag down sales and discourage editors from publishing future ER books. (Assuming any discouraged penniless scriveners would bother writing them.)

I decided this question has two answers.
(a) A frugal YD would borrow the library book, read it, and then decide whether it's worthless or a keeper. If it's worthless that would imply that Bob wrote a lousy book or that the reader isn't a true LBYM believer. So the reader would probably decide that it's a keeper and buy their own reference copy (after Amazon puts it on sale or offers cheap used copies) to start thumbing through during devotional meetings. Bob, you're gonna have a year or two of slow sales followed by a meteoric acceleration.
(b) Other YD wannabes would buy the book because it would never occur to them to borrow it from a library. They aren't actually YDs-- just the people we know who ask about ER, nod alertly when we explain the concept, and then go buy an SUV. They'll be working for the rest of their lives (and paying our SS) so it's not worth worrying about! Their purchases would keep Nolo from giving up on the book.

I am totally opposed to "Habitat for Humanity" Think it's a terrible idea.
OTOH, they are not using my money to fund it (yet). Just another
leftist liberal feel-good project. "Oh, look what I did. I am a good person" JG

Let's not feed the troll behavior, folks... and, John, you're (usually) better than this.

 

[ESRBob]

Yeah, I did specifically tell people to borrow the book from the library, but I think that was one of the passages the editor 'improved'. I think it ended up as a tip to borrow books and DVDs in general from the library. I think she figured my original wording was a bit like that book that was popular in the early 70's entitled "Steal This Book", (some sort of proto-terrorist screed, I think).

Maybe the next LBYM Manifesto should be entitled "Don't Buy This Book". Hey, if the libraries buy it, that still sells a few books, right?

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Let's not feed the troll behavior, folks... and, John, you're (usually) better than this.

Yeah, that was not my finest hour. Habitat for Humanity is an especially
revolting concept to me, and not because the libs love it. I have thought about it
carefully and see all kinds of flaws (of course this comes from an extreme right wing/Ayn Randian/Anne Coulter point of reference). Anyway, I won't bore you good folks with an essay. I don't like the program. Nuff said!

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

"Habitat for Humanity" is leftist? Maybe, my sister volunteered in a urban area and the recipient acted like the house wasnt big enough. The idea is to get the recipient to work on the house but the person didnt have much for skills and was asked to help clean up and balked at it. It is just another case of people thinking they are entitled.  I think a lot of young middle class live in apartments waiting to save enough for a down payment. Simply giving people a fish and not teaching them to fish wont get you anywhere.  

Good post! I agree with a lot of this, esp. the "teach them to fish"
metaphor. In my view the thinking involved (Habitat for Humanity)
is more pervasive
than most folks can see. Like I said, strictly a "feel good" program
for liberals. Nothing more.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

OH come on, JG, WHY?  Even the recipients have to put in "sweat equity."  As a good conservative, you can't knock that.  And, as far as I know, the government doesn't fund it, with possible exception of some tax deductions.  If we had more stuff like this, ala the Amish, maybe we'd be a better country.  If it's privately funded, done by volunteers, with recipients pitching in, what's not to like?  And if it makes the volunteers feel good, maybe they'll keep volunteering? Also, I'm sure that somewhere it annoys labor union  types.  Looks like win/win to me.

Well, the best thing that can be said is they are not using our money
(yet). I expect this to change at some point. Look, I could write an essay on this which would read like a rant. You folks get enough rants from
me already. I will just make one small point. The number of people
being helped here is so small as to be completely insignificant. Plus, the houses I have
seen built are all nicer than what I live in. There are millions in this world
without food or shelter, never mind a pot to pee in. If they could take
what they put into each 3 BR/2 bath ranch, they maybe could build
10 cottages in the 3rd world. Who needs it more? Some welfare
mom here in the States, or someone dying in Uganda? Damn, I said
no rant and did one anyway. Sorry.

JG

 

[Lazarus]

Can the people who get a Habitat house actually afford to operate it? I have a Brother In Law who volunteers for Habitat, for him it’s an excuse to get out of the house and feel good about himself. I am not opposed to the program, but if you cannot afford to buy a house I doubt if you can afford to stay in one.

 

[Martha]

ESR Bob, I'll get the book when it comes out and all my read books go to the library. Looking forward to it. Does this mean you are EFR Bob now that you finished the book?

I hate to participate in this particular hijack, but I want to comment a bit on two habitat for humanity programs I have worked with in Minnesota and Wisconsin. To potentially get a house, you have to volunteer a significant number of hours on habitat projects. The homes they do around here are either rehabs or small, two bedroom, one bath homes. Nothing the least bit fancy. The purchase price is based on cost and financed without interest and with a low down payment. Interest does come due if the home is sold within a certain period of time. The home is appraised and if it is sold within a certain period of time, the owners have to pay the entire appraised value. The people getting the homes tend to have stable low paying jobs where they can't earn enough to get a down payment. The buyers have to earn enough to service the debt and pay their other expenses.

No abuse in the programs I have participated in.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

ESR Bob, I'll get the book when it comes out and all my read books go to the library.  Looking forward to it.  Does this mean you are EFR Bob now that you finished the book?

I hate to participate in this particular hijack, but I want to comment a bit on two habitat for humanity programs I have worked with in Minnesota and Wisconsin.  To potentially get a house, you have to volunteer a significant number of hours on habitat projects.  The homes they do around here are either rehabs or small, two bedroom, one bath homes.  Nothing the least bit fancy.  The purchase price is based on cost and financed without interest and with a low down payment.  Interest does come due if the home is sold within a certain period of time. The home is appraised and if it is sold within a certain period of time, the owners have to pay the entire appraised value.   The people getting the homes tend to have stable low paying jobs where they can't earn enough to get a down payment.  The buyers have to earn enough to service the debt and pay their other expenses.

No abuse in the programs I have participated in. 

To be clear, I never suspected or implied any abuse. I just think the
concept is misguided at best. Anyway, as long as it's not my money being
spent I suppose I should just move on. I never wanted to tell others how to spend their money or time, as long as what they are doing doesn't mess
up my life.

JG

 

[Nords]

Well, the best thing that can be said is they are not using our money
(yet).  I expect this to change at some point.  Look, I could write an essay on this which would read like a rant.  You folks get enough rants from
me already.  I will just make one small point.  The number of people
being helped here is so small as to be completely insignificant.  Plus, the houses I have
seen built are all nicer than what I live in.  There are millions in this world
without food or shelter, never mind a pot to pee in.  If they could take
what they put into each 3 BR/2 bath ranch, they maybe could build
10 cottages in the 3rd world.  Who needs it more?  Some welfare
mom here in the States, or someone dying in Uganda?  Damn, I said
no rant and did one anyway.  Sorry.  JG

Well, John, the program doesn't just appeal to liberals.  I've been thinking of volunteering with them for some months now (not that I've found it enough of a priority to make the time) and I looked forward to a reasoned critique of the programs flaws and perhaps even alternatives or a better program.  You're not exactly inspiring me to question Habitat's motives.

Are you saying that too much Habitat money is spent helping too few?  Considering the number of homes built with donated materials & labor, I bet they're America's cheapest builder.  Or is there some better place to put the money?  Interesting that you'd rather build homes in 3rd world countries than right here in your own country, especially considering that, without Habitat, your fellow citizens might require welfare or Medicaid to put together their rent payments.  "Your tax dollars at work."

Or are you jealous because they're living in a nicer home than you are?  Can't you swing a hammer to make your place a bit better, just as they did for 500 hours?

I think our federal govt sends quite enough money to Uganda.  I like the idea of helping non-taxpayers here at home so that we help create more taxpayers to send even more money to Uganda.

As you say:  damn.  

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Well, John, the program doesn't just appeal to liberals.  I've been thinking of volunteering with them for some months now (not that I've found it enough of a priority to make the time) and I looked forward to a reasoned critique of the programs flaws and perhaps even alternatives or a better program.  You're not exactly inspiring me to question Habitat's motives.

Are you saying that too much Habitat money is spent helping too few?  Considering the number of homes built with donated materials & labor, I bet they're America's cheapest builder.  Or is there some better place to put the money?  Interesting that you'd rather build homes in 3rd world countries than right here in your own country, especially considering that, without Habitat, your fellow citizens might require welfare or Medicaid to put together their rent payments.  "Your tax dollars at work."

Or are you jealous because they're living in a nicer home than you are?  Can't you swing a hammer to make your place a bit better, just as they did for 500 hours?

I think our federal govt sends quite enough money to Uganda.  I like the idea of helping non-taxpayers here at home so that we help create more taxpayers to send even more money to Uganda.

As you say:  damn.  

This is absolutely my last word on this. I am not "jealous". I can not "swing a hammer" and don't want to. I think HFH is a silly
lib promoted program, but since it doesn't effect me directly I have
bigger fish to fry. All of you who enjoy participating in HFH, I am
happy for you ...........truly.........no matter what your reasons for being
involved.

JG

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Just nice people doing nice things for each other John. Hope thats not too alien a thought...

 

[Michael]

Habitat and the church affiliated clones are great. People should help each other.