Is There Any Yearning to Be Recognized for Your FIRE Success?

[imnontrad]

I yearn for recognition occasionally. This is when I and my opinions are disregarded and someone with the "flash" is treated with awe and respect. I have had that happen at work, in professional meetings and at church.

 

[marko]

I disagree that a lot of people live w “an illusion” of wealth. If they have a 3-5mm house, send all 3 kids to private school when the live in the best school district, and have several summer homes, they probably really are wealthy. You’d be surprised how many really wealthy people there are.

True to a certain extent and we know many as well.

But as you may know, there's a difference between 'rich' and 'wealth'. DW worked with a lot of the types you mention; $1MM+ annual income. The day before payday, they'd be bumming $50 off of her because their ATM was empty and their overdraft was shut off.

When the lay-offs came, more than half of them had to sell the house(s), boat, drop club memberships and..."we decided to downsize".

We winter in Fort Lauderdale. After 40 years, you get a feel for the place and my observation of our neighbors is "a third are truly (super) wealthy, a third are swimming like hell to stay above water and a third are outright crooks with no intention of ever paying for anything"

 

[RetMD21]

+1. I gave a couple of retirement planning lunch 'brown bag' talks at work, because I am passionate about planning for one's future, and designing it, rather than just letting it happen. The impression that I got from folks who attended was 'jealousy' and some folks started to refer to me as a 'millionaire', although I never once mentioned the amount accumulated, except by inference with regards to the 4% rule.

Well, you tried and got it out of your system. Based on occupation I think I would have faced a similar reaction. I think most would prefer to believe that if only they made more money they could/would save and invest. Lbym and delayed gratification is the key.

 

[indiajust]

I like the way Motley Fool looks at nominal appreciation. They measure performance relative to a benchmark by subtracting it, then they suggest subtracting about an additional 6% for base rate cost of capital/taxes/expenses/churn. What is left is your outperformance (or lack thereof).

The big problem in an elite money printing environment is finding the goalposts. Reality disappears when everyone uses digital fiat. Of course, that's why empires do it. Are they real returns? To what extent? No one knows, because it becomes unknowable. The truth still exists, but its devilish difficult to state with any certainty. And may not be revealed until the dust settles... which might be decades from now.

 

[Blue531]

"Imnontrad" who posted above said it well. I feel the same. In my last job I worked for two bosses who seemed to think that because they made more money than the rest of us that they were smarter. So Many people with larger salaries fool themselves and others stand by and foolishly admire them as both aspire to live as large as their salaries will allow thinking that this makes them rich somehow. Then they look down on those who live rather frugal, plainly and/or modestly as if we are peasants. I think the fact that I quietly accomplished fairly early retirement on such modest means caused them to sit up and recognize, though they'll never do it outright. I never shared my investing habits with them because they never valued my wisdom or opinion on anything. I recognize myself for it, but as far as others, only others like people here that know what it takes can really appreciate the enormity of the accomplishment. Family and friends will recognize and be glad if they love and appreciate us.

 

[Major Tom]

I put on socks this morning, and realizing there was a hole in one, turned it around so the hole is on top.
I can get another 6 months out of that sock...

When my Dad's sweaters developed holes in the elbows, he would put them on back-to-front and continue wearing them. He would never wear those ones out though - just at home. He did have some standards!

 

[Andre1969]

When my Dad's sweaters developed holes in the elbows, he would put them on back-to-front and continue wearing them. He would never wear those ones out though - just at home. He did have some standards!

Hell, just cut off the sleeves and go for the sweater-vest look. I have a few long-sleeve flannel shirts that, when the elbows wore out, I just cut off the sleeves and went for that "Larry the Cable Guy" look.

I'll confess, I have a couple pairs of socks that I just turned around, when they got holes in the heels. And if I'm wearing boots, where you can't see my leg, I've even mis-matched socks.

 

[aja8888]

When my Dad's sweaters developed holes in the elbows, he would put them on back-to-front and continue wearing them. He would never wear those ones out though - just at home. He did have some standards!

I find that cheap sweatshirts (well nothing is cheap anymore) are longer lasting than sweaters as sweaters are knitted and can get caught on something and unravel. I have a closet row of sweatshirts I constantly wear in winter months, some of which are 20 years old.

I have one sweatshirt that I bought in 1973 (Yale one, hand painted bulldog on the front) that is still wearable, but the sleeve ends are frayed.

 

[Koolau]

+1. I gave a couple of retirement planning lunch 'brown bag' talks at work, because I am passionate about planning for one's future, and designing it, rather than just letting it happen. The impression that I got from folks who attended was 'jealousy' and some folks started to refer to me as a 'millionaire', although I never once mentioned the amount accumulated, except by inference with regards to the 4% rule.

I now live in a gated community, and in a decent house with a pool. Nothing too extravagant. But my wife doesn't want me posting any photos online, which is probably wise. I just wish I could buy a Ferrari without attracting the wrong type of attention. I grew up as a 'nerd' in a rural area, and I was able to leave the area, get a solid education, decent jobs, and become financially and professionally successful, despite not being a good-looking athlete (I must have some self-image issues). Many of my high school class mates still live in the same small town, and struggle to get by financially.

In the end, no, I don't want 'to be recognized' for FIRE success, but it would be nice to be able to share it without causing jealousy. I only have a few retired friends who have known for 5+ years about my plans who seem truly happy for us. Even my father doesn't really understand me wanting/being able to RE at 55.

Jesus noticed the same thing you experienced as relayed in Mark 6:4 “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.”

Heh, heh, welcome to the club! Folks you know will always remember that time you (fill in the blank) (For me, it was dropping a wash tub of expensive lab glassware as the big boss walked in - Looking at my name badge he chuckled "HMMMMmmmm. Ko'olau. That aught to be easy to remember.") YMMV

 

[capitalhockey]

I yearn for recognition occasionally. This is when I and my opinions are disregarded and someone with the "flash" is treated with awe and respect. I have had that happen at work, in professional meetings and at church.

I have the same issue at family outings....my brother is flashy with cars/house and is deemed more successful. I am viewed not as successful because I don't show off.

My wife has a friend who was very dismissive my real estate advice (even though I own 3 rental properties) since I don't look like I am successful.

It bothers me sometimes.

 

[Blue_Bird]

This reminds me of Lt. Columbo as played by Peter Faulk. The clever murderer's initial impression is usually that Columbo isn't very sharp because of his unconventional nature.

 

[Koolau]

This reminds me of Lt. Columbo as played by Peter Faulk. The clever murderer's initial impression is usually that Columbo isn't very sharp because of his unconventional nature.

I guess Columbo should remind us to use our apparent weaknesses as a strength. Stealth wealth is still the best. YMMV

 

[brett]

I do not understand this recognition issue. If anything we prefer to stay under the radar. The very last thing we want is for our relatives and others to know our financial situation.

We feel enough satisfaction with being financially independent, retired, debt free, and able to travel where we want for as long and as often as we want (pre covid).

For us the rest is noise level. We do not need recognition nor do we need our egos stroked.

 

[GTP2022]

I was the same way in my w*rking years. I would do what was expected of me, but that was about it. I did a good job, but snubbed any kind of recognition...it has never been my style. As my best friend says, "I strive for mediocrity"

It reminds me of a couple of my Dad's friends. Friend "A" was highly accomplished and did some pretty awesome things in life. He was an editor for a large newspaper, an elected state representative and owned a successful restaurant in Germany after his time in the military. Never mind the several year sabbatical he took where he traveled all over the US, Mexico and South America where he met and married an AA flight attendant. When he passed away, his obituary was nothing more than a legal announcement...two sentences if I recall. Friend "B" lead a successful professional but otherwise unremarkable life. He worked for mega corp for 20 years, became a head hunter and retired at 65 years old. He did nothing in retirement and died at 72 of cancer. His obit was THOUSANDS of words that read like a Linkedin profile...it was honestly one of the saddest things I have ever read.

Yes, a bit of a ramble, but just an example of how folks live their lives and what seems to be important.

I like a good ramble.

 

[Koolau]

I do not understand this recognition issue. If anything we prefer to stay under the radar. The very last thing we want is for our relatives and others to know our financial situation.

We feel enough satisfaction with being financially independent, retired, debt free, and able to travel where we want for as long and as often as we want (pre covid).

For us the rest is noise level. We do not need recognition nor do we need our egos stroked.

As mentioned, I don't have an issue with not being recognized for FIRE success - if anything, quite the opposite (aka stealth wealth.) Having said that, I understand those who get their strokes from their competency at FIRE. I took a course at w*rk called "C*reer Anchors." The premise is that every person has a reason for w*rking. It could be as simple as needing money to fund their lifestyle (heh, heh, IIRC they called that c*reer anchor "Lifestyle.") But there are several other c*reer anchors such as "Pure Challenge" (I had a boss like that). There is "Service to Others" (like a nurse or clergyman.) Then there is "Technical Competence." Such folks get their "strokes" by being recognized as competent at whatever they do at w*rk. You might be a good programer or a good cook or good waiter, etc. It doesn't matter. SO why NOT a good FIRE practitioner? I understand this one as Technical Competence was my top career anchor (close second was Lifestyle.)

Still, it hasn't carried over to my everyday practice of FIRE. In actual fact, I admit to NOT being all that good at it. I have no great expertise in investing nor in predicting markets or having the most money here at FI Forum. I'm a good saver and LBYM. That's about it. Not a total failure, but just "average" and nothing to brag about - or get my strokes from. Still, I DO understand that some would be quite eager to be recognized for their FIRE abilities. I would never denigrate their desires though I might caution them to share sparingly for self preservation reasons. YMMV

 

[Nemo2]

'John Reid', c'est moi.

 

[foxfirev5]

No desire at all. First, get over it. Nobody really cares about your success. If they do watch out. Nothing, I mean nothing good can come of displaying your wealth if you really have it. This forum is my only outlet to brag about my modest good fortune. Otherwise I'm content to be a random old guy who's considered a heck of a fisherman.

 

[bobbyr]

I have the same issue at family outings....my brother is flashy with cars/house and is deemed more successful. I am viewed not as successful because I don't show off.

My wife has a friend who was very dismissive my real estate advice (even though I own 3 rental properties) since I don't look like I am successful.

It bothers me sometimes.

The millionaire next door book always resonates in my brain...I love the low key achievers who don't look the part -- who cares about the flashy noisemakers?

That can be a sign of some large insecurities imo

Also, if you are flashy or people 'think' you have money, you get hit with more requests of various kinds (thinking fund raising)

 

[Jerseytunahunter]

Hell Yeah! I see this whole thing as a competition and yes, I want my ribbon when I win. My wife and I could have retired a long time ago but we decided we would work and continue to build wealth so that we could live the life we dreamt about as high school sweethearts. We take a lot of pride in our accomplishments as we started with nothing-even paid for our own wedding. So just to be clear, we're not flashy and we're not boastful. I drive a 2013 Buick, my wife drives a 2016 jeep. We don't have expensive cloths or jewelry. I own a large company and we take a lot of great vacations. We also have rental properties. We never speak of such things with our friends and family but they know that we could buy whatever we want whenever we want. We just choose not to.

 

[marko]

Also, if you are flashy or people 'think' you have money, you get hit with more requests of various kinds (thinking fund raising)

What I've never understood were those who deliberately denied themselves in order to stay under the radar.

If you just love driving that 20 year old heap, good for you. But if you drive it just so that "people won't think you're rich", isn't that sort of "worrying what people think" in reverse?

In our case, Mom's family was well known and quite wealthy. There is no hiding for us and that means being approached for donations for museums/hospitals/churches who just assume that we're a whole lot wealthier than we actually are. Often gets awkward with requests that are way out of our range.

But still. If you covet that car/house/vacation and avoid it simply on what people will think, well....life is too short for that IMO. We try to live our lives as we wish and to h*ll with "how it looks". If you resent my Mercedes, well, that's your problem not mine.

 

[MarieIG]

The only one whom I care about recognizing my efforts towards retirement preparedness/FI would be DH; and kiddos only to the extent of (hopefully) setting an example.

 

[Koolau]

What I've never understood were those who deliberately denied themselves in order to stay under the radar.

If you just love driving that 20 year old heap, good for you. But if you drive it just so that "people won't think you're rich", isn't that sort of "worrying what people think" in reverse?

In our case, Mom's family was well known and quite wealthy. There is no hiding for us and that means being approached for donations for museums/hospitals/churches who just assume that we're a whole lot wealthier than we actually are. Often gets awkward with requests that are way out of our range.

But still. If you covet that car/house/vacation and avoid it simply on what people will think, well....life is too short for that IMO. We try to live our lives as we wish and to h*ll with "how it looks". If you resent my Mercedes, well, that's your problem not mine.

I drive my older(er) cars because they still meet my needs. I don't drive much, so using newer equipment means the cost per mile is quite high. Older cars' cost per mile is lower because depreciation is negligible after the car is 10 years old or so in most cases. I have no problem with what other people drive. I've mentioned that I'd like to have a C8 Corvette. But I don't even have a parking space for it right now! Besides I would personally feel stupid driving that car now (had a Vette in 1970) for a short while. - fun but glad when it was gone.) YMMV

 

[bobbyr]

What I've never understood were those who deliberately denied themselves in order to stay under the radar.

If you just love driving that 20 year old heap, good for you. But if you drive it just so that "people won't think you're rich", isn't that sort of "worrying what people think" in reverse?

In our case, Mom's family was well known and quite wealthy. There is no hiding for us and that means being approached for donations for museums/hospitals/churches who just assume that we're a whole lot wealthier than we actually are. Often gets awkward with requests that are way out of our range.

But still. If you covet that car/house/vacation and avoid it simply on what people will think, well....life is too short for that IMO. We try to live our lives as we wish and to h*ll with "how it looks". If you resent my Mercedes, well, that's your problem not mine.

I don't really drive cars based on what people think. My older model nissan just drives smoothly and I care mostly about getting from a to b...also I like keeping annual car expenses low, and saving $s for something else

Anyway, I probably overstated things a bit. I was just responding to the question about being flashy in retirement or needing praise. Anyway, I am probably wading into territory I don't belong, so disregard my ramblings!

 

[marko]

Anyway, I probably overstated things a bit. I was just responding to the question about being flashy in retirement or needing praise. Anyway, I am probably wading into territory I don't belong, so disregard my ramblings!

No prob. I wasn't commenting on your post directly but more of a general observation on my part; your point on fund raising was a good one and I see it first-hand.

 

[Bigdawg]

What I've never understood were those who deliberately denied themselves in order to stay under the radar.

I realize you wrote that refering to vehicles but it applies to all aspects of FIRE if you ask me. When people say they LBYM I think that they deprived themselves of vacations, nights out, other fun but maybe pricey events all in the name of FIRE. We didn't approach it that way. We did save but we we never deprived ourselves. I do drive a 21 year old truck. It is a Chevy Silverado Z71 4x4. Runs great and has everything I need. I occasionally ride with buddies who have the 2018 model and it is no better than mine. I also drive a classic 1983 Jeep CJ8 Scrambler. 5 inch lift with 33's. I enjoy having an iconic vehicle. FIRE isn't a destination but a journey. I also didn't RE when we became FI. Still enjoy the 32 hrs/wk that I get paid for. Actually work maybe 5-8 hours per week (from home). Pay is 6 fig's + so why stop. Just got back from 2 weeks in St Croix. Basically do what we want, when we want (minus COVID of course). No desire to show off or get recognized.