Learning to Fly

[Senator]

Unfortunately Alaska has a high rate of GA aircraft accidents and while a lot of them are weather related a lot are also due to lack of aircraft maintenance and pilot proficiently when each year hunters pull out their aircraft only for hunting season. Hearing stories anecdotally of Super Cub fabric being repaired with duct tape just to get another year or two before recovering or no annuals being done as most flights are out of a home strip flying only to remote flights. A lot of accidents are also high time IFR pilots flying VFR in areas where there is no air traffic radar coverage, weather radar, weather reporting stations or cameras.

I was on a fly in hunt in 1988. Sitting on the packs in the back of the airplane. I think it was a super cub, I know it was a canvas sided plane. The pilot did not have enough gas to fly in and out from the spot, so he brought in gas to the spot on the previous trip. We were flying with floats.

On the flight in, after we got through the 'pass', we got fogged in. Maybe 1/4 mile visibility, if that. VFR only. Not enough gas to get back, we had to press on to the landing place and the extra gas. The pilot said "Don't worry, I know the cliffs". I was wondering if the pilots headed our way knew the cliffs too...

The pilot did say he only had one bad accident in which the landing gear collapsed. He said he was only a few hundred pounds overweight. He said it should not have collapsed, as he had been as much as 800 lbs over on previous flights.

 

[Walt34]

On the flight in, after we got through the 'pass', we got fogged in. Maybe 1/4 mile visibility, if that. VFR only. Not enough gas to get back, we had to press on to the landing place and the extra gas. The pilot said "Don't worry, I know the cliffs". I was wondering if the pilots headed our way knew the cliffs too...

The pilot did say he only had one bad accident in which the landing gear collapsed. He said he was only a few hundred pounds overweight. He said it should not have collapsed, as he had been as much as 800 lbs over on previous flights.

Wow, if that's common practice in Alaska no wonder the accident record is so poor. I for one would refuse to fly with a fool like that.

He plans on flying into someplace where the weather cannot be known without enough fuel to turn around and routinely flies over gross? That's the proverbial "accident going someplace to happen".

 

[Pilot2013]

My understanding is that you can get the "BasicMed" only after you have passed at least one full FAA physical.

Rules here: https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/

@Pullen makes an excellent point though. Better to make sure one can get a medical before spending the money to get to the solo point where the medical is required. If the OP has any specific questions, the Aviation Medical Examiner guide book is here: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/ Not an easy read, sometimes, but definitive.

Yep, you are right. My bad.

 

[teejayevans]

I was going to ask how much $$$ it costs, then decided to just bing for it.

This article goes through the hourly amortized cost of a used plane, and it is much cheaper to rent than own. These are expensive toys.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-own-a-small-plane

I log close to 200 hours a year, I use it for trips, not just flying around the practice area. If using for trips you will be charged a minimum daily rate because they figure they cannot rent it out while you have it. If you are planning to take trips it’s probably better to own.

 

[Senator]

Wow, if that's common practice in Alaska no wonder the accident record is so poor. I for one would refuse to fly with a fool like that.

He plans on flying into someplace where the weather cannot be known without enough fuel to turn around and routinely flies over gross? That's the proverbial "accident going someplace to happen".

I think it is very common in AK. Many even strap a 16' boat between the gear to transport it. I am not sure how the aerodynamics get impacted, but I am sure it makes a difference.

I flew with the bush pilot before I had any ground training, so I assumed what he said was true and OK. He also said, "I have floats, I can land anywhere", as he pointed to the ocean below.

It looked like 10' seas, but maybe it was only 3-5' waves. I took him at his word. I am glad I did not have to see if he could land anywhere. Maybe I should have asked "Land safely anywhere?"

An airplane will always land, walking away from the landing is a critical piece of the puzzle if I am on that plane.

I did see him a a sports show after that flight. he mentioned that was one of his scariest flights. He held his cool though.

There are old pilots, and bold pilots,but no old, bold pilots.

 

[Rustward]

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Speaking of Alaska, there was a guy (Shaun Lunt) that made frequent trips up there for photography and his pictures are absolutely beautiful.

Here is his blog that has most of his pictures: Due Up

That sad part of the story is that Shaun was 33 and living a "perfect life" when he died in 2008. He was flying in Alaska taking some pictures and "spun in" his plane. Weather was not a contributing factor, but it illustrates that if you aren't aware and aren't careful, the hobby can kill you.

 

[dm]

I got my PPL at 55, I was already retired. I was told, and agree that you need to fly around twice a week during training to stay proficient.

I would defiantly rent during training, i know some of my landings were not the best. I did buy my plane before I got my PPL, but I was close to taking my check ride.

I’ve owned my plane now for 5-1/2 years and have flow around 550 hrs in it. It is expensive, but renting doesn’t appeal to me. I like knowing how the plane is maintained and treated. And the ability to go on a trip and return when I like.

 

[Pilot2013]

And the ability to go on a trip and return when I like.

Biggest reason for ownership.

 

[LARS]

I thought it was an expensive way to kill yourself.

Too funny! Could describe much of life (none of us get out alive), but still...

 

[Souschef]

My favorite quote about flying is:
A mile of highway will take you a mile
A mile of runway will take you anywhere.

 

[Meadbh]

My favorite quote about flying is:
A mile of highway will take you a mile
A mile of runway will take you anywhere.

Exactly.

Here is a link to one of the videos from a circumnavigation of the globe recently completed by two guys in a Cessna 210. The pilot is J-P Schulze, a 23 year old recreational flyer.

https://youtu.be/z_mOOrqEV-0

https://www.flybeyondborders.com

That’s as close as I will ever get to learning to fly.

 

[Koolau]

I learned to fly in the early '70s. Much has changed since than and I haven't flown for years. If you check around the net and/or talk to current pilots I think you will find that private pilots are becoming an endangered species. Gummint regs and red tape have added to the already high costs of flying. Additionally the insurance costs have soared - I'm sure you can guess why. All this has taken a lot of the fun out of flying.

Little FBOs that once grew up around every small city are virtually gone now. Back in the day, these little strips offered tie-downs or even hangers for not much money. Everyone knew everyone and helped the new guys avoid pitfalls associated with low-time pilots and questionable aircraft sales. Now, you'll likely fly in and out of regional airports and pay a fortune to just store or rent an aircraft.

But if you're serious about learning to fly, there is one option which can help cut costs significantly. Join (or preferably) form a flying partnership or club. One aircraft owned by 3 or 4 people is about right for people all getting their PPL and typical 100 to 150 hours/year flying. Be certain to do you due diligence and maybe get some legal assistance. Much as I miss it, I'd never do it again in today's GenAV climate. YMMV

 

[Souschef]

I am sorry, but I disagree with Koolau. I also learned to fly in the 70's. i am still a very active pilot, flying about 70 hours so far this year.
There are still many small airports around, like the one I fly from. I regularly fly through some of the most congested airspace around in Southern California. Once you are familiar with the restrictions, it is not a problem.

Yes, there have been changes in the airspace, but it is not too difficult to understand them. The FAA has just recently updated the requirements to get a pilot's license, but there is now an emphasis on good decision making.

I have renter's insurance with high liability coverage, and it is less than $200 a year.
I recently did a study on owning a Cessna 172, based on flying 50 hours a year. I included insurance, annual inspections, etc. It came out almost a wash with renting. The thing I like about renting is that it is turnkey. The plane gets parked and gassed, and all the required maintenance is performed.

 

[ncbill]

Your renter's insurance covers aircraft?

My homeowners and umbrella specifically excludes coverage for any claims (liability or property damage) arising from operating an aircraft.

So I pay over $1000/year for $1 million liability/$100,000 airframe coverage for my student pilot.

 

[Walt34]

Your renter's insurance covers aircraft?

My homeowners and umbrella specifically excludes coverage for any claims (liability or property damage) arising from operating an aircraft.

I think he means renter's insurance for someone renting an aircraft. That was available when I was learning.

 

[CoolRich59]

The pilot did say he only had one bad accident in which the landing gear collapsed. He said he was only a few hundred pounds overweight. He said it should not have collapsed, as he had been as much as 800 lbs over on previous flights.

Bubba and Earl were two avid hunters who hired a pilot to take them to Alaska to hunt moose. They bagged six.

As they were loading them on the plane to come home, the pilot tells them the plane can only carry four.

The two good old boys objected strongly. "Last year we shot six and the pilot let us put them all on board; he had the same plane as yours." Reluctantly, the pilot gave in and all six animals were loaded.

Unfortunately, even on full power the little plane couldn't handle the load and went down a few moments after takeoff.

Climbing out of the wreck Bubba asked Earl, "Any idea where we are?"

"Yeah, I think we're pretty close to where we crashed last year."

 

[OldShooter]

... Join (or preferably) form a flying partnership or club. One aircraft owned by 3 or 4 people is about right for people all getting their PPL and typical 100 to 150 hours/year flying. Be certain to do you due diligence and maybe get some legal assistance. ... YMMV

A club is a great path to your ratings, one reason being that with larger clubs especially you are also joining an aviation community. DO NOT, however, even consider forming your own partnership/aka "club." As a budding aviator, you have no idea what airplanes are good choices, how to evaluate them, what all the costs will be for maintenance, hangar, insurance, etc. and you and your merry band of novices are absolutely clueless about the mechanics and maintenance of the airplane itself. Burning about 100 x $100 bills or flushing them down the toilet will be much cheaper, much faster, and involve less stress.

 

[dm]

I generally pay around $5 to $10 to park the plane for a night. Usually that is even waved if I buy gas. Sometimes they even give me a car to use.

The most I’ve paid is $30 at key west, some places I’ve been told I could park for free as long as I didn’t stay 30 days. Most seem to be in the $5 to $10 range though, cheaper than parking your car at some places. This is for overnight, except Key West I’ve rarely been charged for just a short stay.

My insurance runs around $1,200, hangar cost $300 month. Annual inspection cost around $2,000 and add another $3,000 or so for maintenance. And don’t even think about updating your avionics.

But I also like to know I’m the only one flying the plane and know how it’s been treated. I also like the ability to fly whenever I want and choose any upgrades I want.

Thats not to say that if it got to expensive for me I wouldn’t consider a partner if I could find someone I could trust.

 

[Pilot2013]

I'm hearing that there are starting to be a lot more freedom from the avionics standpoint. I hope that's true.

 

[bloom2708]

My #1 rule with hobbies is "don't die".

I would not want to put in the time/effort/money to be the best pilot.

 

[Pilot2013]

My #1 rule with hobbies is "don't die".

To each his own. The feeling of accomplishment is hard to match, IMO.

 

[Cessna152]

To each his own. The feeling of accomplishment is hard to match, IMO.

That. Although it is about as dangerous as riding a motorcycle. But it does provide a different perspective that I happen to think is pretty neat, if you are into life adventures.

This is not really the forum for aviation trip reports, and I don't know what the limits are on uploads, but here are some photos I took during a short trip in April of this year in a rental C-152 (as some might guess from my forum handle.) The Oregon cascades were about at their maximum snow depth.

Mount Washington, while west-bound out of Sister's Eagle Air.

Westbound - North and Middle Sister, with South Sister at left edge of photo.

The Three Sisters while west-bound. Ancient lava flow pretty evident.

Record of west-bound (return home) flight path to give context. Logged 2.5 hours @ $95/hour to rent the C-152. Self-guided sight-seeing cost: $237.50. Benefit to me: priceless.

 

[OldShooter]

... it is about as dangerous as riding a motorcycle ...

There is an important difference, however: In flying, 80% of accidents are attributable to pilot error. On bikes many, maybe most, accidents are out of the rider's control and caused by other drivers' errors like left turns in front of the bike.

Pilot errors include things like launching into bad weather, running out of fuel, not maintaining proficiency, flying with known equipment problems, etc. So a conservative pilot who trains regularly, doesn't take chances with weather, etc. Is going to be safer than a careful biker on the street. And "retired" is a big advantage because it minimizes cases of get-there-itis where a pilot will launch in marginal conditions or with marginal equipment because he has to get back home for work or other obligations. "Retired" can also be a safety advantage if it means the pilot has the money to be flying and training on a regular basis.

Life is a fatal disease. Staying home all the time might be safer, but like a ship in harbor, that is not its purpose.