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Old 06-18-2021, 05:01 PM   #21
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@pb4uski and others who live partially in Vermont. I would love to retire to Vermont but the taxes would kill me. Does living less than 6 months of the year in Vermont side step any taxation issues?
Hold on, your profile says that you are from California and you are worried about Vermont taxes killing you?

If you have $100,000 of ordinary income in 2021 and are MFJ your Vermont income tax would be $3,051 but California income tax would be $3,103.

But to answer your question, yes.... if you are not a Vermont resident you are not subject to Vermont state income tax unless you have income producing property in Vermont.... and part of being a non-resident would be being in Vermont less than 6 months a year, amoungst other things.

https://www.irscalculators.com/tax-calculator
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Old 06-19-2021, 09:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
Hold on, your profile says that you are from California and you are worried about Vermont taxes killing you?
https://www.irscalculators.com/tax-calculator
Umm, because I don't want to pay CA or VT level taxes Either is not worth it.

I love CA and am happy to pay state income taxes when I'm using the great services (i.e. schools) but not when I am not.
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Old 06-19-2021, 09:43 AM   #23
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I have a house in Redmond, WA and a cabin less than an hour away. I split time between the places, usually half the week one place, half the other (since close and a scenic drive between) and except for the dual yard maintenance, it's a lot of fun. If I was to buy again, at least one of the places would be no or low maintenance, but I have no urge to own a place that requires getting on a plane, though I know people do that to follow the sun.
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:23 PM   #24
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Okay, you had me at France. I lived there for a few years and would love to retire there. How does it work if you split your time? I presume you spend the majority of time in the US to qualify as a US resident for taxation purposes?
You can stay 90 days in six months without a long stay VISA and if you stay the majority of the time in the US you remain an US tax resident. However, the VISA process is straightforward and the tax treaty is really pretty good if you are retired, depending on your income sources (most don't pay more than their US taxes due to the treaty; there is a wealth tax only on property after 1.3M E, at modest rates). Inheritance tax and planning is the biggest issue. We will consider a long stay visa in the future for some period of time.
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Living in Two Places - Experiences, Factors and Issues?
Old 06-19-2021, 11:04 PM   #25
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Living in Two Places - Experiences, Factors and Issues?

One issue no one has mentioned is how having two places affects one socially, especially if they are located far apart. On a positive note, you can make new friends in your new location. However, if you have a set of close friends who are important to you, it’s hard to stay as close if you’re only in that location part-time. Yes, you can do FaceTime or Zoom calls, you can visit each other, but you will miss out on day-to-day simple interactions as well as celebrations of some of life’s milestones.

Friends are really important to us. We do have two homes, but decided to rent one of them out to a long-term (2-year lease) tenant. Our homes are only two hours apart and we have been able to make new friends in our new place and still maintain fairly close relationships in our original city. We would love to have a home in the Caribbean and could sell one of our two existing homes to pay for that. However the distance would mean we would hardly ever see any of our long-term friends.

We had a primary home and a vacation home several years ago, and one thing I really disliked is having to have two of most things, and inevitably not having my favorite clothing item or kitchen tool with me when I wanted it because we didn’t have complete duplicates of literally everything.
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Old 06-20-2021, 05:39 AM   #26
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We spend warm months in our cottage on Lake Champlain in Vermont and cold months in home outside St. George UT. So far I think we are on year 4 of this and LOVE it.

The things we notice

- two sets of friends (though some of them also snowbird Vermont and “heatbird” Utah desert) so even if we stayed in one place, some of them would also be gone.
- one more car than necessary. We leave one in each place and then drive out Tesla back and forth.
- doctors/dentists/hair dressers, etc. in both places
- finding health insurance that covers us in both (not medicare yet)
- Home Opening up and shutting down logistics (re-stocking and de-stocking) - not a huge issue but still some work
- where are my clothes? - we leave some clothes in both but inevitably something is @ the other location
- two homes to maintain, pay taxes on, etc.
- less need for vacations - we feel we live in two of the most beautiful places around where other people come to vacation - though Kauai is our special place where we try to go every year
- kids are on the east coast so Utah is a bit of a haul for them (and was never their home so no friends for them to connect to).
- we have two sets of pickleball friends now so great to reconnect with them.

We always talk about simplifying (especially in this crazy housing market) but there is no way we could live in Vermont in the winter or Utah in the summer so can’t think of a better option @ this point.
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Old 06-20-2021, 05:45 AM   #27
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For the cars you leave, do you have someone start them? I've always tried to drive idle cars every 2-4 weeks, and I've still had to jump start one when it was about time to replace the battery. This is one of the parts that I wonder about most, although if you drive back and forth you'll still have the Tesla, so I suppose the second car is optional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbahop View Post
We spend warm months in our cottage on Lake Champlain in Vermont and cold months in home outside St. George UT. So far I think we are on year 4 of this and LOVE it.

The things we notice

- two sets of friends (though some of them also snowbird Vermont and “heatbird” Utah desert) so even if we stayed in one place, some of them would also be gone.
- one more car than necessary. We leave one in each place and then drive out Tesla back and forth.
- doctors/dentists/hair dressers, etc. in both places
- finding health insurance that covers us in both (not medicare yet)
- Home Opening up and shutting down logistics (re-stocking and de-stocking) - not a huge issue but still some work
- where are my clothes? - we leave some clothes in both but inevitably something is @ the other location
- two homes to maintain, pay taxes on, etc.
- less need for vacations - we feel we live in two of the most beautiful places around where other people come to vacation - though Kauai is our special place where we try to go every year
- kids are on the east coast so Utah is a bit of a haul for them (and was never their home so no friends for them to connect to).
- we have two sets of pickleball friends now so great to reconnect with them.

We always talk about simplifying (especially in this crazy housing market) but there is no way we could live in Vermont in the winter or Utah in the summer so can’t think of a better option @ this point.
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Old 06-20-2021, 05:48 AM   #28
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the car we leave in Vermont is a BMW electric which we leave plugged in anyway. No one drives it while we are gone. The only issue we have had is the brakes don’t like not driving and get a bit rusty in the unheated garage. In Utah we now have a used VW Touareg Diesel (used to be a jeep Wranger). Never had an issue with the wrangler - will see with the VW when we return.
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Old 06-20-2021, 06:14 AM   #29
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Our primary home is in SE Pennsylvania and our second home, a condo, is in SE Florida. Our plan was to winter in Florida and remain Pennsylvania residents. Elder care got in the way and we haven’t spent as much time in Florida as we’d like. Haven’t decided to sell yet, but the thought has crossed my mind.
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Old 06-20-2021, 06:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger View Post
For the cars you leave, do you have someone start them? I've always tried to drive idle cars every 2-4 weeks, and I've still had to jump start one when it was about time to replace the battery. This is one of the parts that I wonder about most, although if you drive back and forth you'll still have the Tesla, so I suppose the second car is optional.
My mom has snowbirded for years and the only thing that I do to her CR-V is to disconnect the negative battery terminal wire. It starts up every spring without fail and I let it idle for about 20 minutes to charge up the battery while I top of the air in the tires.

Last winter I forgot to disconnect the negative wire on my truck but it started right away when we returned a little over 6 months later.

No need for any special procedures IME.
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Old 06-20-2021, 06:48 AM   #31
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For the cars you leave, do you have someone start them? I've always tried to drive idle cars every 2-4 weeks, and I've still had to jump start one when it was about time to replace the battery. This is one of the parts that I wonder about most, although if you drive back and forth you'll still have the Tesla, so I suppose the second car is optional.
We used to go to our Arizona townhome in November and January through March. The car battery hardly ever made it through the summer. We didn't have anyone start it while we were gone.

The first thing I would do when we got there in November was call AAA. They would jump start the car, and give me a diagnostic printout that showed that the battery was dead. And instruct me not to turn it off because it wouldn't start again without jumping.

I had a lifetime battery warranty, so I would drive to Autozone, give them my diagnostic report, and they would put in a new battery.
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:05 PM   #32
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westernNY summer, westernAZ winter. Oct/Apr. drive back and forth. both places pretty well furnished/stocked. only thing I take back and forth is warm wear (sweatshirts, long sleeve tshirts, long jeans; gets chilly Dec/Jan in the desert), prescriptions. the drive is my favorite part of the year. ~1 week, stop at every casino in my path along the way
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:31 PM   #33
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My 2 homes are about 3.5 hours away from each other (one in middle NC and one in the NC mountains). We have many friends in both places. One advantage of having 2 houses within driving distance of each other is that you can easily invite friends from one place to visit you in the other place. Our friends in the middle of the state love to visit us at our mountain house in during hot summer weather.
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Old 06-20-2021, 02:31 PM   #34
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Main home in NH, condo in VA. Primarily due to grandkids. I try to go back and forth every two months as they are still young and actually enjoy seeing me.
Weather has little to do with time in each place because DD in VA decided to have her child in July and DS in NH had his in Feb 🤦*♀️.

Biggest challenge I had the first year or so was lugging too much stuff back and forth. I’ve gotten much better about that.

DH doesn’t like to spend as much time in VA because he “gets bored” with no yard work to do. I don’t have that problem 🤣
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Old 06-20-2021, 04:18 PM   #35
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So I'm fortunate enough to have the money to own two properties. So I want to know:

For those of you live in two places.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.
b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?
c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live in
We have three places (we never planned to, but life happens).

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.

Southern California - Most of the year (Primary Residence)

South East Florida - (normally Dec-Jan and when we feel like going)
This property was purchased as an investment and
we have been owners since 2011.
It's well located and was a bargain when be bought it.

Lausanne Switzerland - My in-laws gave us one of their properties a few
years after we married. We have owned it for over
20 years.

b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?

Property taxes rise rapidly if you don't have a homestead exemption.
Permitting process for home improvements can be complex in foreign countries.

Switzerland terminated banking relationships with U.S. Citizens around 2014 which was unexpected and complicated our property ownership since we could no longer hold bank accounts.

c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live

Make sure you have good internet service and install cameras, remote controlled thermostats, and remote controlled sprinkler systems.

Set up your Amazon and eBay accounts with multiple addresses.

Make sure you have health insurance coverage at all locations. We use a Blue Shield PPO to give us coverage at all locations. You should determine which health care providers are in-network at all locations.


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Have an exit plan before you reach an age where travel becomes difficult.
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Old 06-20-2021, 06:30 PM   #36
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We own 2 homes in WI and rent a 3rd in FL.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.

Mid-April through mid-December we split our time between our 2 homes in WI. We've owned both properties for 20+ years. The northern WI property was our cottage during our working years. It is in a great outdoor recreational area. Our other property provides better access to healthcare, shopping, dining, entertainment, etc. The properties are 75 minutes apart and we split our time based on what we have going on. Mid-December through mid-April we rent the same house each year in FL for the weather and water access. We choose to rent in FL so that we don't have to deal with maintaining a 3rd property.

b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?

The biggest issue is that all health insurance options available to us have networks limited to WI. So when we are in FL, we only have coverage for emergencies. So far, we've managed through this without too much difficulty. Hopefully that continues as we have 6 more years before Medicare.

The other experience we didn't expect was that we have had to rush back to to WI from FL for family needs 4 of the 5 years we've been snowbirds. However, now that all of our parents are deceased I expect that to decrease significantly.

As someone else mentioned, I found turning internet services on/off so burdensome that I now leave them on.

c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live.

We have been able to maintain friendships in all 3 locations.

We use security cameras to monitor vacant properties.

YouTube TV allows you to have one membership cover multiple locations provided you either sign in on your home network every 3 months or you change your home network. This is the only streaming service I found that does this well.
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Old 06-20-2021, 11:14 PM   #37
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Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.
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Old 06-21-2021, 06:50 AM   #38
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Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.
I bet that both of my homes in NC and all related expenses are less than half of one similar home in San Diego. Plus I love living in both places. And very little traffic or pollution in either place.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:09 AM   #39
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Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.
Cost and Congestation. Desirable locations are expensive and popular.

I live in Northern California (Folsom) which is not nearly as desirable as San Diego and the cost of living where I live (a good but hardly luxurious suburb of Sacramento) is astounding. Just 5 years ago my 2000 sqft 1998 home on an 8000 sq ft (0.2 acre) lot was $500K now its pushing upto $750K. That's a lot of money for a retirement home which is nice but hardly luxurious.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:32 AM   #40
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Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.
I love visiting San Diego, La Jolla, Carlsbad, etc. but too crowded and expenive for me... but the weather is wonderful.

I think your friend is wrong. Our property taxes, HOA fees, insurance and electrici for our Florida winter condo is around $8k a year... equal to about 2 1/2 months of prime season rent.... hardly a money pit.
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