Living in Two Places - Experiences, Factors and Issues?

[jabbahop]

We spend warm months in our cottage on Lake Champlain in Vermont and cold months in home outside St. George UT. So far I think we are on year 4 of this and LOVE it.

The things we notice

- two sets of friends (though some of them also snowbird Vermont and “heatbird” Utah desert) so even if we stayed in one place, some of them would also be gone.
- one more car than necessary. We leave one in each place and then drive out Tesla back and forth.
- doctors/dentists/hair dressers, etc. in both places
- finding health insurance that covers us in both (not medicare yet)
- Home Opening up and shutting down logistics (re-stocking and de-stocking) - not a huge issue but still some work
- where are my clothes? - we leave some clothes in both but inevitably something is @ the other location
- two homes to maintain, pay taxes on, etc.
- less need for vacations - we feel we live in two of the most beautiful places around where other people come to vacation - though Kauai is our special place where we try to go every year
- kids are on the east coast so Utah is a bit of a haul for them (and was never their home so no friends for them to connect to).
- we have two sets of pickleball friends now so great to reconnect with them.

We always talk about simplifying (especially in this crazy housing market) but there is no way we could live in Vermont in the winter or Utah in the summer so can’t think of a better option @ this point.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

For the cars you leave, do you have someone start them? I've always tried to drive idle cars every 2-4 weeks, and I've still had to jump start one when it was about time to replace the battery. This is one of the parts that I wonder about most, although if you drive back and forth you'll still have the Tesla, so I suppose the second car is optional.

We spend warm months in our cottage on Lake Champlain in Vermont and cold months in home outside St. George UT. So far I think we are on year 4 of this and LOVE it.

The things we notice

- two sets of friends (though some of them also snowbird Vermont and “heatbird” Utah desert) so even if we stayed in one place, some of them would also be gone.
- one more car than necessary. We leave one in each place and then drive out Tesla back and forth.
- doctors/dentists/hair dressers, etc. in both places
- finding health insurance that covers us in both (not medicare yet)
- Home Opening up and shutting down logistics (re-stocking and de-stocking) - not a huge issue but still some work
- where are my clothes? - we leave some clothes in both but inevitably something is @ the other location
- two homes to maintain, pay taxes on, etc.
- less need for vacations - we feel we live in two of the most beautiful places around where other people come to vacation - though Kauai is our special place where we try to go every year
- kids are on the east coast so Utah is a bit of a haul for them (and was never their home so no friends for them to connect to).
- we have two sets of pickleball friends now so great to reconnect with them.

We always talk about simplifying (especially in this crazy housing market) but there is no way we could live in Vermont in the winter or Utah in the summer so can’t think of a better option @ this point.

 

[jabbahop]

the car we leave in Vermont is a BMW electric which we leave plugged in anyway. No one drives it while we are gone. The only issue we have had is the brakes don’t like not driving and get a bit rusty in the unheated garage. In Utah we now have a used VW Touareg Diesel (used to be a jeep Wranger). Never had an issue with the wrangler - will see with the VW when we return.

 

[Dash man]

Our primary home is in SE Pennsylvania and our second home, a condo, is in SE Florida. Our plan was to winter in Florida and remain Pennsylvania residents. Elder care got in the way and we haven’t spent as much time in Florida as we’d like. Haven’t decided to sell yet, but the thought has crossed my mind.

 

[pb4uski]

For the cars you leave, do you have someone start them? I've always tried to drive idle cars every 2-4 weeks, and I've still had to jump start one when it was about time to replace the battery. This is one of the parts that I wonder about most, although if you drive back and forth you'll still have the Tesla, so I suppose the second car is optional.

My mom has snowbirded for years and the only thing that I do to her CR-V is to disconnect the negative battery terminal wire. It starts up every spring without fail and I let it idle for about 20 minutes to charge up the battery while I top of the air in the tires.

Last winter I forgot to disconnect the negative wire on my truck but it started right away when we returned a little over 6 months later.

No need for any special procedures IME.

 

[Ronstar]

For the cars you leave, do you have someone start them? I've always tried to drive idle cars every 2-4 weeks, and I've still had to jump start one when it was about time to replace the battery. This is one of the parts that I wonder about most, although if you drive back and forth you'll still have the Tesla, so I suppose the second car is optional.

We used to go to our Arizona townhome in November and January through March. The car battery hardly ever made it through the summer. We didn't have anyone start it while we were gone.

The first thing I would do when we got there in November was call AAA. They would jump start the car, and give me a diagnostic printout that showed that the battery was dead. And instruct me not to turn it off because it wouldn't start again without jumping.

I had a lifetime battery warranty, so I would drive to Autozone, give them my diagnostic report, and they would put in a new battery.

 

[drb391]

westernNY summer, westernAZ winter. Oct/Apr. drive back and forth. both places pretty well furnished/stocked. only thing I take back and forth is warm wear (sweatshirts, long sleeve tshirts, long jeans; gets chilly Dec/Jan in the desert), prescriptions. the drive is my favorite part of the year. ~1 week, stop at every casino in my path along the way

 

[harllee]

My 2 homes are about 3.5 hours away from each other (one in middle NC and one in the NC mountains). We have many friends in both places. One advantage of having 2 houses within driving distance of each other is that you can easily invite friends from one place to visit you in the other place. Our friends in the middle of the state love to visit us at our mountain house in during hot summer weather.

 

[KM]

Main home in NH, condo in VA. Primarily due to grandkids. I try to go back and forth every two months as they are still young and actually enjoy seeing me.
Weather has little to do with time in each place because DD in VA decided to have her child in July and DS in NH had his in Feb *.

Biggest challenge I had the first year or so was lugging too much stuff back and forth. I’ve gotten much better about that.

DH doesn’t like to spend as much time in VA because he “gets bored” with no yard work to do. I don’t have that problem

 

[Freedom56]

So I'm fortunate enough to have the money to own two properties. So I want to know:

For those of you live in two places.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.
b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?
c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live in

We have three places (we never planned to, but life happens).

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.

Southern California - Most of the year (Primary Residence)

South East Florida - (normally Dec-Jan and when we feel like going)
This property was purchased as an investment and
we have been owners since 2011.
It's well located and was a bargain when be bought it.

Lausanne Switzerland - My in-laws gave us one of their properties a few
years after we married. We have owned it for over
20 years.

b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?

Property taxes rise rapidly if you don't have a homestead exemption.
Permitting process for home improvements can be complex in foreign countries.

Switzerland terminated banking relationships with U.S. Citizens around 2014 which was unexpected and complicated our property ownership since we could no longer hold bank accounts.

c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live

Make sure you have good internet service and install cameras, remote controlled thermostats, and remote controlled sprinkler systems.

Set up your Amazon and eBay accounts with multiple addresses.

Make sure you have health insurance coverage at all locations. We use a Blue Shield PPO to give us coverage at all locations. You should determine which health care providers are in-network at all locations.


----

Have an exit plan before you reach an age where travel becomes difficult.

 

[Splash]

We own 2 homes in WI and rent a 3rd in FL.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.

Mid-April through mid-December we split our time between our 2 homes in WI. We've owned both properties for 20+ years. The northern WI property was our cottage during our working years. It is in a great outdoor recreational area. Our other property provides better access to healthcare, shopping, dining, entertainment, etc. The properties are 75 minutes apart and we split our time based on what we have going on. Mid-December through mid-April we rent the same house each year in FL for the weather and water access. We choose to rent in FL so that we don't have to deal with maintaining a 3rd property.

b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?

The biggest issue is that all health insurance options available to us have networks limited to WI. So when we are in FL, we only have coverage for emergencies. So far, we've managed through this without too much difficulty. Hopefully that continues as we have 6 more years before Medicare.

The other experience we didn't expect was that we have had to rush back to to WI from FL for family needs 4 of the 5 years we've been snowbirds. However, now that all of our parents are deceased I expect that to decrease significantly.

As someone else mentioned, I found turning internet services on/off so burdensome that I now leave them on.

c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live.

We have been able to maintain friendships in all 3 locations.

We use security cameras to monitor vacant properties.

YouTube TV allows you to have one membership cover multiple locations provided you either sign in on your home network every 3 months or you change your home network. This is the only streaming service I found that does this well.

 

[mboley]

Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.

 

[harllee]

Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.

I bet that both of my homes in NC and all related expenses are less than half of one similar home in San Diego. Plus I love living in both places. And very little traffic or pollution in either place.

 

[KingOfTheCheapos]

Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.

Cost and Congestation. Desirable locations are expensive and popular.

I live in Northern California (Folsom) which is not nearly as desirable as San Diego and the cost of living where I live (a good but hardly luxurious suburb of Sacramento) is astounding. Just 5 years ago my 2000 sqft 1998 home on an 8000 sq ft (0.2 acre) lot was $500K now its pushing upto $750K. That's a lot of money for a retirement home which is nice but hardly luxurious.

 

[pb4uski]

Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.

I love visiting San Diego, La Jolla, Carlsbad, etc. but too crowded and expenive for me... but the weather is wonderful.

I think your friend is wrong. Our property taxes, HOA fees, insurance and electrici for our Florida winter condo is around $8k a year... equal to about 2 1/2 months of prime season rent.... hardly a money pit.

 

[finnski1]

I love visiting San Diego, La Jolla, Carlsbad, etc. but too crowded and expenive for me... but the weather is wonderful.

I think your friend is wrong. Our property taxes, HOA fees, insurance and electrici for our Florida winter condo is around $8k a year... equal to about 2 1/2 months of prime season rent.... hardly a money pit.

Not a money pit but you also have to amortize the (presumably cash) cost that you laid out to purchase. Let's say it was "only" $200k and you get to enjoy it for the next 20-25 years(hopefully) then you need to add another 8-10k/year to your figures. $16-18000 per year plus whatever maintenance costs are and dual ownership of many items and you could easily be approaching $20k/year. Also there is an opportunity cost for outlaying that cash which could be invested. I also realize that the RE market is booming and you may actually get a much better return from that than stocks. Who knows? So far I know I can rent for 3 months for half of that or less for a reasonably nice place (not on the ocean of course) in the Bonita Springs area of FL and probably many other places in the US

This is the main stumbling block I've always had to buying a 2nd place.
I don't know that I would like any place enough to commit to that. But that's just me of course. I also think i would like to try new places rather than the same one year after year. I realize there are pros and cons to that as well.

 

[MuirWannabe]

I find this paradox when considering a second vacation home. It can’t be justified financially very well. The arguments about it being cheaper and more flexible to go wherever you want renting VRBO type accommodations are true.

EXCEPT. Nobody I know who makes these arguments actually ever goes anywhere (or at least very often), renting VRBO places. It’s too much trouble to find a place in an area you know little about. Requires too much planning.

So, instead it seems paralysis occurs where the vacation home is avoided, but also actual frequent travel is also avoided. All unintentional and undesirable from the folks working through these considerations. At least that’s what I see with friends and family in my life. And, so far, within my own thoughts. It’s frustrating to me.

I think at some point I’m going to break down and just go ahead and purchase that mountain log cabin home I’ve always wanted. Maybe.

 

[KingOfTheCheapos]

That's true, but I have to say. I've bought and sold half a dozen homes and if you do your home work and don't get too caught up you can make money on a property or at the very least lose no more than the money you'd spent on VRBO accomodations.

I find this paradox when considering a second vacation home. It can’t be justified financially very well. The arguments about it being cheaper and more flexible to go wherever you want renting VRBO type accommodations are true.

EXCEPT. Nobody I know who makes these arguments actually ever goes anywhere (or at least very often), renting VRBO places. It’s too much trouble to find a place in an area you know little about. Requires too much planning.

So, instead it seems paralysis occurs where the vacation home is avoided, but also actual frequent travel is also avoided. All unintentional and undesirable from the folks working through these considerations. At least that’s what I see with friends and family in my life. And, so far, within my own thoughts. It’s frustrating to me.

I think at some point I’m going to break down and just go ahead and purchase that mountain log cabin home I’ve always wanted. Maybe.

 

[Ronstar]

A lot of talk on whether second homes make financial sense. Those without second homes question the financial viability more than those who have second homes.

This is because people with second homes do not buy them as investments. Rather than financial aspects, the people with second homes put more consideration into comfort and convenience of the home.

 

[pb4uski]

Not a money pit but you also have to amortize the (presumably cash) cost that you laid out to purchase. Let's say it was "only" $200k and you get to enjoy it for the next 20-25 years(hopefully) then you need to add another 8-10k/year to your figures. $16-18000 per year plus whatever maintenance costs are and dual ownership of many items and you could easily be approaching $20k/year. Also there is an opportunity cost for outlaying that cash which could be invested. I also realize that the RE market is booming and you may actually get a much better return from that than stocks. Who knows? So far I know I can rent for 3 months for half of that or less for a reasonably nice place (not on the ocean of course) in the Bonita Springs area of FL and probably many other places in the US

This is the main stumbling block I've always had to buying a 2nd place.
I don't know that I would like any place enough to commit to that. But that's just me of course. I also think i would like to try new places rather than the same one year after year. I realize there are pros and cons to that as well.

You're on the right track but your numbers are totally off. Amortizing is inappropriate... a second home isn't a depreciating asset like a car or RV.

Let's say it was $200k for discussion purposes and that we paid cash. That is $200k that is tied up in the second home that is not earning income... so let's say $14k a year at a 7% blended rate of return. But the property is appreciating in value at 4%... so that's $8k a year... so the net adds $6k a year to my $8k of direct costs... so $14k a year. The alternative would be to rent for the season... say 4 months at $3k a month so that would be $12k.

Not much different but we have our own place and can leave our stuff there.

 

[Jenna]

You can stay 90 days in six months without a long stay VISA and if you stay the majority of the time in the US you remain an US tax resident. However, the VISA process is straightforward and the tax treaty is really pretty good if you are retired, depending on your income sources (most don't pay more than their US taxes due to the treaty; there is a wealth tax only on property after 1.3M E, at modest rates). Inheritance tax and planning is the biggest issue. We will consider a long stay visa in the future for some period of time.

What went into your decision to buy a home in france instead of just renting or staying in a hotel for 90 days?

 

[pb4uski]

A lot of talk on whether second homes make financial sense. Those without second homes question the financial viability more than those who have second homes.

This is because people with second homes do not buy them as investments. Rather than financial aspects, the people with second homes put more consideration into comfort and convenience of the home.

Exactly. We've had two second homes. Bought them to use them... have never rented either of them.

 

[oiseux]

What went into your decision to buy a home in france instead of just renting or staying in a hotel for 90 days?

As others have posted, there is nothing like a home base with your own stuff, the lack of a learning curve, and the ability to form connections locally (we also have friends in France and Italy - we have both worked + studied in the Europe previuosly). It is also a great jumping off place to explore, with excellent transport connections and a service infrastructure in place that eases remote ownership. And as others pointed out, it is not about the money, but the enjoyment. We also still plan to stay elsewhere on extended stays -- nothing excludes that.

However, right now, we also rent out the place short term, as well, which provides income that more than offsets the costs (with tax advantages).

 

[Koolau]

A lot of talk on whether second homes make financial sense. Those without second homes question the financial viability more than those who have second homes.

This is because people with second homes do not buy them as investments. Rather than financial aspects, the people with second homes put more consideration into comfort and convenience of the home.

What went into your decision to buy a home in france instead of just renting or staying in a hotel for 90 days?

Picking a couple of pieces to comment on:

Regarding renting: (In france might make sense.)

We rent full time the old homestead on the mainland. We can stay in it all year or (as in 2020) not at all. Our average is probably 15 weeks/year. We leave furniture, clothes, personal belonging AND the car there. Family/friends have easy access to make certain all is well and that the car is started regularly.

For the rent we pay yearly, we might be able to stay in an INN SUITES or similar for about 2 months of the year - with no privileges of leaving anything. Our rent is less than our HOA dues on our condo, so IOW our rent is fairly inexpensive. It's all within the family, so we all make allowances (for instance, we don't run the AC at 68 deg. in the summer. We are never there in winter, so heat is 50 deg. We don't expect updated furnishings or decoration, etc.) To rent to an "outsider" would require the family to spend a LOT of money for fix up and separation from the family business - long story.

As far as having the same place year round, we have the best of both worlds. As a rental, we have no big chunk of money tied up. Our rent is less than an equivalent (sort of) cost-of-capital on a mostly un-used home.

NOT needing to move each year or rent a storage unit is well worth the cost of rent. Works well for the family too. No need to vet renters or clean up after messy renters or worry about pandemic non-payers, etc.

We HAVE looked into buying back "home" on the mainland. Each time, the answer comes back the same. Why buy when we can rent - especially since it works well for the family.

I realize that not everyone has the advantage of family symbiosis regarding property so YMMV.

 

[RAE]

And as others pointed out, it is not about the money, but the enjoyment. We also still plan to stay elsewhere on extended stays -- nothing excludes that.

However, right now, we also rent out the place short term, as well, which provides income that more than offsets the costs (with tax advantages).

+1, we also rent out our house short-term when we are not there, and it has worked out well so far. And yes, we bought our second home so we could enjoy it whenever we want to. We've made lots of friends there after just a couple years, and we look forward to going there every year when the weather starts to get colder up north. We could afford it at the time (paid cash), and I know we could sell it now for a lot more than we paid for it (but we have no plans to sell at this time). So I really don't stress at all over the money we have invested into it. Life is short, if you really want a second home and can afford it, then buy it while you are still young and healthy enough to enjoy it.