Living in Two Places - Experiences, Factors and Issues?

[ychuck46]

Different approach

We have our primary home in TN and since we didn't want to have to maintain a second property (our TN home is large and with acreage), we went the timeshare route in a big way. Lots of points with Wyndham and since we don't like traveling during the busiest times, we are able to spend three months each winter on the beach in SC in the same oceanfront condo, and usually travel another two months out of the year elsewhere (the Smokies, New Orleans, Daytona Beach, ...) It worked for us; ever see what it takes to maintain an oceanfront property, which is what we would have bought if we decided to actually buy and maintain a second home? Best wishes on your particular journey.

 

[BoodaGazelle]

1. Southern New England 5 months, SW FL 7 months2. The biggest issue is security of. your property when not there, and having
a plan for what to do if something does go wrong when not there.
3. Research very carefully who will be. your neighbors, and whether you will
be living near vacation rentals. If a condo do they have 24 hr security?

 

[2177V]

So I'm fortunate enough to have the money to own two properties. So I want to know:

For those of you live in two places.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.
b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?
c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live in

a) San Francisco Bay Area and Tieling China which 40 miles from Shenyang. Grew up in California but Tieling China is super inexpensive. Dinner cost $4 per person, Cab fare is $3, Access to High speed rail, no homeless, low crime, no guns, and inexpensive health cost. Night life in Shenyang is similar to NYC. 6 months in California (Summer, Fall) and 6 months in Tieling (Winter, Spring). Tieling's summer is too hot and humid for me.

b) Health cost claims takes a long time. My wife's heart surgery cost $5K in China which would have cost $25K to $50K in California but it took 3 months for me to get re-imbursed from my USA health coverage. Also, I was stuck in California during the pandemic which I did not foresee.

c) I suggest looking into a more exciting life style for the second house. I enjoy the night life in China and many places are open all night in Shenyang and the night life there is stimulating and never boring. The low cost of living in China is a bonus since going out on the town in the USA can be expensive. If I had to choose between California and Tieling China, I would have to choose Tieling China for the low cost of living.

 

[Ebendana]

Ocean and Mountains

Our primary home is across the street from the Ocean in Flagler Beach FL...we love it, but have the hurricanes to deal with...in the process of building a 2nd home 550 miles away in the N. Georgia Mountains...our plan is to go up to the mountains July -Oct...it is one long day of driving. This gives us a place to evacuate to, a place to get out of the Florida heat in the summer and two modest spots...we love both locations. The second home is a Destination travel trailer on a 1.4 acre lot, in a gated community, under a RV port, upkeep should be minimal....that's the plan at least. Ocean spot in a 55+ community manufactured home that is on land you own, lots of folks to keep an eye on it...easy to maintain

 

[rodi]

I don't have a second home - but we've discussed/toyed with the idea of getting a small apartment in Southern Italy. We love Italy. Puglia is beautiful. DH has cousins in Sicily. Io parlo un po' di italiano... But despite visiting regularly - we've always just rented vacation rentals. In the town the cousins live in we have a great relationship with the owner of a vacation rental we've stayed at several times... It's cheap, he treats us well because he knows all the cousins and they would get mad at him if he wasn't nice. LOL

 

[boont]

I have a home opposite San Francisco in the Berkeley hills. It looks right at the Golden Gate Bridge. I can also see most of S.F. and the bay from Oakland to the coastal hills of Marin County. My second home is a small ranch in the wine country about two and a half hours north of the City house.

My first advice is to not go farther than this if you want to use both places a lot. The next forty minutes would take me to the ocean but people who buy there at three and a half hours usually sell within five years. It is too far. We have hills in California, elsewhere in flat country three plus hours may work, just not here.

Also, the country house is secluded but not remote, I can be in a couple of our small towns in five minutes. This means I don't have much prep time to take the drive from one to the other. Each house is turn key, so I can decide to leave any morning and be at the other usually by 3pm after a lunch and grocery stop along the way. You don't want to be too far from some kind of town and realize you forgot to get milk or something. It puts too much pressure on you to not forget anything.

Yes, you have to eventually own two of everything. The country house is made of Redwood and is on 20 acres. I can't see any neighbors and never will. If I replace something in either house I think, "Can the other place use this?"

It's California so both properties have sky rocketed in value over the last 30 plus years that I've owned them both. I find it refreshing to go from one environment to the other. I return to the City house when I want Chinese Food and Cafe/bookstores and libraries.

Since property taxes are almost frozen in Calif. and we can carry them with us to a new home if you are over 65, it's not that expensive to own here once you get over the shock of new home prices.

No harsh weather in either place. For me the Country house is the ideal escape from City life, I have a friend who calls it, "The hide-out."

I never rent either one. I found a metal sign in a Paris flea market that says, "Mon Reve" and it hangs near the door to the Country house.

 

[Retired Expat]

So I'm fortunate enough to have the money to own two properties. So I want to know:

For those of you live in two places.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.
b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?
c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live in

A for us Punta del Este Uruguay and Litchfield CT. Uruguay probably 7 months out of the year. US winter for sure. 1 month traveling and 4 months in CT. Spring and Fall are lovely.

B didn’t foresee 15 months in UY due to the pandemic or the one direct flight to the US being cancelled! But on the plus side didn’t foresee making our CT home an AirBnB and it doing so well!

C if you choose to become an expat and live outside the US you can save on state income taxes, medical insurance and a slew of other things possibly. As to splitting your stuff take photos of your stuff so you know what is where?

 

[anothercog]

Im sure most of you have compelling reasons to own two homes, such as family or other emotional attachment. But if it's just climate why not own one home in a place like San Diego, especially if you're not spending much time in the 2nd home?

Asking for a friend who thinks second homes are a money pit unless you can easily afford it.

I go back in forth with this. I live near San Mateo where the weather is pleasant year round. I like the thought of a second home but not sure I want to deal with the maintenance or return to the same place. On the other hand, the equity I’m sitting on could easily afford two houses in cheaper locales with leftover spending money.

 

[gooddog]

So I'm fortunate enough to have the money to own two properties. So I want to know:

For those of you live in two places.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.
b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?
c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live in

a) Beach front on the space coast of FL, and Beach front on the north coast of CA. NOV - APR for FL, MAY - OCT for CA. Weather is opposite.


b) COVID and travel difficulties. Wears one arse out driving across the country vs a 5 hour flight.



c) Make sure the areas have everything you want, and don't cheap out - you will regret it. Also (despite COVID) an airport with a non-stop between your two points is a real bonus.

 

[Crabbyjerry]

Our primary home is across the street from the Ocean in Flagler Beach FL...we love it, but have the hurricanes to deal with...in the process of building a 2nd home 550 miles away in the N. Georgia Mountains...our plan is to go up to the mountains July -Oct...it is one long day of driving. This gives us a place to evacuate to, a place to get out of the Florida heat in the summer and two modest spots...we love both locations. The second home is a Destination travel trailer on a 1.4 acre lot, in a gated community, under a RV port, upkeep should be minimal....that's the plan at least. Ocean spot in a 55+ community manufactured home that is on land you own, lots of folks to keep an eye on it...easy to maintain

Care to share the park. Trying to decide on going a similar route with motor home if we decide to keep it.

 

[dixter]

the problems...
1) double the property taxes, insurance
2) need to watch the weather patterns more... some times you need to go to the other place to make sure the weather doesn't break things... like when a deep freeze comes or a hail storm messes up the roof
4) mowing the yard when you get back
the good things..
1) you feel like your on vacation every time you switch locations...

 

[Retired Expat]

First off as another poster mentioned a 2nd home fir most is not seen as an investment but more as enjoyment. We bought ours with the clear idea to put it up on AirBnB. Had hoped it would pay the carrying costs so we would both have the use of it but it wouldn’t be a money pit. First year it paid for its taxes and insurance, 2nd year after all expenses paid a 10 % return on its investment. This year as we are using it more will simply cover it’s costs and pay our trip there but market has gone crazy so is appreciating by 20% at a minimum. So financially it is all positive.

Another poster suggested simply living is SanDiego or somewhere like that. Well I left Southern California when I retired and between not paying CA taxes, property taxes water, elec gasoline I saved a small fortune! Living well in CA is lovely but very expensive. Now with two homes and a much more interesting lifestyle it still costs me less per year.

 

[RVplusDog]

We have a house in a very reasonable Dell Webb retirement community in Ohio near great doctors, friends, & family. Purchased an RV lot at the edge of Gorges State park in the NC mountains near hundreds of waterfalls and unlimited hiking. I’m inclined to spend most of my time in NC, while DH likes to do some consulting work & socialize more in Ohio. We already travelled the US & Canada for years in RVs, seeking the best places for our tastes. For now , this pair works well for us and we can always take off in the RV if we want to visit other areas (and rent out our NC RV site).

 

[Live Large]

Life Style Choices

Exactly. We've had two second homes. Bought them to use them... have never rented either of them.

So second time I’ve posted on similar topic - buying or owning second home. Is it sound a decision? How about cost analysis etc. I enjoy reading the various post, we do what we want with our hard earned $$$.

Taxes are going to be paid wherever you live! I’m no longer interested in ever leaving CA - DW & I choice.

Owned 2nd home since 2002 it’s a great turn key with amenities of a pool & jacuzzi 1br/1ba contrast with primary home 2500sft 4/2. I was there other day (condo) stayed 1nite DW at ranch house about 75mi away. Ez drive CA highway to Central Valley. Can see San Francisco on Hill in SF Bay behind state college never rented used frequently before and now after retired. Near 3 airports OAK, SJO, SFO. We like to travel and stay at nice hotels.

I concur, closer 2nd home perhaps used weekly may go one month absent before a stay but can visit in a day!
I change out vehicles car or motorcycle on whim. All the various eateries of the metropolis vs country living where we see cows farms horses orchards. A Luxurious option.

International travel is great for visits, saw post on China been there but live? Perhaps if I spoke Mandarin I’d stay 90days. Thailand preferred. Person with chateau in France sounds nice. Travel back soon! Cruise?

My summary ~ live in two places -Life Style choices!

 

[NoEZmoney]

This currently is an unbalanced pair, to become more balanced when fully out: northern California and the French Riviera. No particular months. California is where many family roots are and a home. The south of France condo allows easy access to all of Europe and just 30 minutes from Italy giving the influence and access to two countries on the daily. Warm sea during the summer, but not too hot and humid outside, nor is it too cold or snowy in the winter. Plenty of people in similar situations, top health care, very good tax treaty. The adventure itself invigorates one out of your daily patterns.

EXPATS IN TRAINING - We're looking at Expat living as we've traveled quite a bit throughout Europe. France is on our radar as we've traveled it quite a bit as far as the Southern and Western regions (and Paris of course). Have you looked into longer stay visas in France? Wife keeps bookmarking properties for sale in Occitanie', Brittany / Aquitane regions. We have found some nice properties in these areas and have visited there a bit. We're glad to know that France tax treaty recognizes ROTH accounts as tax free as that's a big part of our retirement funding right there. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. We also love Portugal but the ROTH's are viewed as taxable at least as far as things are now.

Our other thought is to "hop-scotch" Europe from Schengen / non-Schengen countries to reset the 180 day clock so to speak and not deal with tax issues. Thanks in advance.

NoEZmoney

 

[oiseux]

EXPATS IN TRAINING - We're looking at Expat living as we've traveled quite a bit throughout Europe. France is on our radar as we've traveled it quite a bit as far as the Southern and Western regions (and Paris of course). Have you looked into longer stay visas in France? Wife keeps bookmarking properties for sale in Occitanie', Brittany / Aquitane regions. We have found some nice properties in these areas and have visited there a bit. We're glad to know that France tax treaty recognizes ROTH accounts as tax free as that's a big part of our retirement funding right there. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. We also love Portugal but the ROTH's are viewed as taxable at least as far as things are now.

Our other thought is to "hop-scotch" Europe from Schengen / non-Schengen countries to reset the 180 day clock so to speak and not deal with tax issues. Thanks in advance.

NoEZmoney

A 12 month renewable long term visa for a "visitor" is what most retirees get in France -- you basically promise not to seek work, show a place to live (lease/deed), and sufficient resources (for a couple, roughly 1500E per month), and 90 days of health insurance. After a period of time you will become eligible for enrollment in national health care.

 

[doneat54]

So I'm fortunate enough to have the money to own two properties. So I want to know:

For those of you live in two places.

a) What locations and what months? Why did you choose them as a pair.
b) What are some of the hidden issues you didn't foresee?
c) Any other tips/suggestions for people researching two areas to live in

Main home in North eastern MA, been there since 2004. DW always wanted a "lake house". I wasn't opposed, but challenged her with "Find one we can afford, and one that has privacy, and doesn't have weekly rentals 100 feet away on either side.".

And in 2019, she actually found such a place and we bought it. 1 hour + away in south central NH. Easy ride always, never any traffic.

Months? She is still working until May next year, I FIRE'd in 2017. I spend about half my days there, a bit more in the summer, less in the winter. But it is not a monthly schedule at all.

Hidden issues? None really. the lake house is a 120 year old property and I knew going in that there would be issues, but no huge surprises. Financially a bit of a strain, but we have planned/budgeted for it. Plan is next spring to sell the MA house and live at the lake full time. Beyond that, who knows...


As for tips.... explore a new area as best you can. Consider renting/Air BnB'ing of you can. Life and homesteads are quirky things. Add to that the anxieties of being "in the fourth quarter" of your life, and things can get dicey. I like one day at a time, and one (big) step at a time, keep as many options open as you can....

 

[finnski1]

You're on the right track but your numbers are totally off. Amortizing is inappropriate... a second home isn't a depreciating asset like a car or RV.

Let's say it was $200k for discussion purposes and that we paid cash. That is $200k that is tied up in the second home that is not earning income... so let's say $14k a year at a 7% blended rate of return. But the property is appreciating in value at 4%... so that's $8k a year... so the net adds $6k a year to my $8k of direct costs... so $14k a year. The alternative would be to rent for the season... say 4 months at $3k a month so that would be $12k.

Not much different but we have our own place and can leave our stuff there.

Well perhaps "amortization" was the wrong term. I'm not a CPA nor even an accountant.
When I said "you" in my earlier post I was really meaning "one" as a generic person not you specifically. Was just going thru the mental calculation of the other things one needs to add to the calculus to estimate their true outlays. I also realize, as others have stated, that these things go beyond just the bottom line and if one can afford a second place and gets a lot of enjoyment out of it then it makes perfect sense.
For me personally, I struggle constantly with the question of will I enjoy it enough to justify a purchase. I keep concluding no even though we could afford it. We're all different.
Well we're not really that "far off" are we. I included 2 -4 grand for maintenance that you didn't include so really I said 16-18 k and 20k with maintenance and you said 14k without. If you include the maintenance like I did you would be at $16-$18k. We only differ by 2 grand. Again, that was a generic "you" not you specifically.

Those numbers I used were actually the exact ones I went thru recently for a condo in Bonita Springs next to BIL. He was much smarter than me and bought in 2011 for only $90k on a unit that had reached $250k in 2005/2006 time frame. Now they are back up to $200-$220k.

 

[doneat54]

For me personally, I struggle constantly with the question of will I enjoy it enough to justify a purchase. I keep concluding no even though we could afford it.

I struggled with that too..... before we bought our lakehouse in 2019. But the thing that made me OK with it was that I really felt like if it wasn't what we really wanted, we could bail and sell it pretty quickly.


And now, of course, we could sell it and make maybe $50k-$100k.

 

[finnski1]

I struggled with that too..... before we bought our lakehouse in 2019. But the thing that made me OK with it was that I really felt like if it wasn't what we really wanted, we could bail and sell it pretty quickly.


And now, of course, we could sell it and make maybe $50k-$100k.

Right now around me lakeside stuff is selling like crazy!

 

[Koolau]

I explained in post 49 how we rent from family which works for both parties. I forgot to mention that (though we don't have an official budget) we DO consider the rent as part of our travel budget. Living where we do, we must travel the long distance to the mainland and set up a home base to "see the USA" so to speak. Those concerned about the significant outlay for either renting our buying a second home COULD consider that purchase as part of their travel budget as well. I know it doesn't change the actual numbers but it might well change how one thinks about spending the money. Just a thought, especially for those who believe travel to be one of those luxuries they had to put off until FIREd. As always, YMMV.

 

[pb4uski]

Well perhaps "amortization" was the wrong term. I'm not a CPA nor even an accountant.
When I said "you" in my earlier post I was really meaning "one" as a generic person not you specifically. Was just going thru the mental calculation of the other things one needs to add to the calculus to estimate their true outlays. I also realize, as others have stated, that these things go beyond just the bottom line and if one can afford a second place and gets a lot of enjoyment out of it then it makes perfect sense.
For me personally, I struggle constantly with the question of will I enjoy it enough to justify a purchase. I keep concluding no even though we could afford it. We're all different.
Well we're not really that "far off" are we. I included 2 -4 grand for maintenance that you didn't include so really I said 16-18 k and 20k with maintenance and you said 14k without. If you include the maintenance like I did you would be at $16-$18k. We only differ by 2 grand. Again, that was a generic "you" not you specifically.

Those numbers I used were actually the exact ones I went thru recently for a condo in Bonita Springs next to BIL. He was much smarter than me and bought in 2011 for only $90k on a unit that had reached $250k in 2005/2006 time frame. Now they are back up to $200-$220k.

I figure it this way on the hypothetical $200k place we have been talking about.

Direct costs (property taxes, HOA fees, insurance, electricity, etc)... $8k
Maintenance............................................................................. $1k (not much in a condo)
Opportunity cost of money at 7%...............................................$14k
Appreciation at 4%....................................................................-$8k
Net cost...................................................................................$15k

We use it six months so that's only $2,500/month. It cost $3,000/month or more to rent for 4 months in season so that would be $12k... so for an additional $3k/year I can own, visit whenever I want, let friends use it and leave all my stuff there.

And FWIW, the appreciation has been a lot higher in the last 6 months... but IMO unrealistically/unsustainably high.

 

[Scuba]

I explained in post 49 how we rent from family which works for both parties. I forgot to mention that (though we don't have an official budget) we DO consider the rent as part of our travel budget. Living where we do, we must travel the long distance to the mainland and set up a home base to "see the USA" so to speak. Those concerned about the significant outlay for either renting our buying a second home COULD consider that purchase as part of their travel budget as well. I know it doesn't change the actual numbers but it might well change how one thinks about spending the money. Just a thought, especially for those who believe travel to be one of those luxuries they had to put off until FIREd. As always, YMMV.

This is why we decided to sell our vacation home years ago. We compared the cost of ownership to our travel budget and realized we could dramatically increase our travels elsewhere if we didn’t spend so much money owning and maintaining a second home. If we ever get to the point where an occasional vacation is enough for us, maybe we will use our beach condo which is currently a long-term rental as our second home. Right now, we enjoy taking at least a couple of trips a year that run anywhere from 2-3 months, plus some additional shorter trips to see friends and family. It doesn’t make sense to us to own two places that are both vacant for almost half the year. And we don’t want to consider offering our primary residence as a short-term rental when we go on a long trip. YMMV

 

[EastWest Gal]

Our primary home is in SE Pennsylvania and our second home, a condo, is in SE Florida. Our plan was to winter in Florida and remain Pennsylvania residents. Elder care got in the way and we haven’t spent as much time in Florida as we’d like. Haven’t decided to sell yet, but the thought has crossed my mind.

I’m surprised you didn’t try to reverse that. Florida has no state income tax and no inheritance tax. PA doesn’t tax IRA withdrawals and pensions.

Elder care doesn’t last forever, but I understand. My parents both got sick 2 years after we moved away from them, across the country. It was a huge challenge.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

A 12 month renewable long term visa for a "visitor" is what most retirees get in France -- you basically promise not to seek work, show a place to live (lease/deed), and sufficient resources (for a couple, roughly 1500E per month), and 90 days of health insurance. After a period of time you will become eligible for enrollment in national health care.

Can you please elaborate on the Period of time, and perhaps the rules.