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LONG! Another perspective on overseas retirement, from the ones left behind
Old 03-15-2009, 09:38 PM   #1
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LONG! Another perspective on overseas retirement, from the ones left behind

As some of you may remember, we lost my FIL suddenly and unexpectedly a couple of months ago. He was retired in South America and died at his home there. Since that time, we've been working on getting his estate taken care of, a process that isn't terribly complicated but will take time. However, there are several things that I've noticed that I think might be useful for those of us considering a move overseas after retirement. Not all of these are from our personal experience; some of them are "Gee, if X had happened, what would we have done?" So some of them may be lesser issues. Still, I thought I'd share. More may come later.

1. How will your loved ones and/or personal representatives be notified if you're suddenly taken ill, become seriously injured, or die? In our case, we were lucky, as my FIL's wife called us immediately.

2. How do you want your remains handled, and what's the process for that in your country of residence? Find out and write it down in a letter of instruction for your personal representative. Send it to them while you can discuss it. Sure, it's uncomfortable, but it's a LOT easier to do this yourself than to have your loved ones trying to figure it out on a scratchy international phone call to the U.S. Embassy in whatever country you're living in.

3. When your family or personal representative has to fly to the country you've retired to, either to take care of you during a serious illness or injury, or to figure out what to do after you've passed away, who is going to pay for the plane ticket? These are not cheap tickets, and if you think your estate will cover the cost... maybe it will, in a year or so. Can your personal representative float anywhere from two to several thousand dollars in last expenses for a year until your estate settles? If you're going to leave them the money for this in a TOD account, it will still take at least a month for them to get the cash. What if you have high medical expenses that have to be paid before you can leave the hospital? What if your rent or life insurance comes due and you can't access your normal checking accounts? What if your local bank's assets are seized by the government and you lose all your in-country monies?

3. How will you streamline your estate? This is an especially important issue if you plan on purchasing real estate in the country you'll be living in. When you die, U.S. law may or may not have any jurisdiction over those assets. How does the estate process work in your country of residence? For U.S. assets, will you need to show that you were domiciled in the U.S. even though you lived elsewhere? How will you do this?

4. What happens if you get married or have kids in your new country of residence? Be sure to update your will and consult an estate attorney with experience in this sort of thing, because it can really complicate issues for everyone you leave behind if you're not on top of it. For example, what part of your estate is going to go to your new spouse? New kids? Old kids? What does the country you reside in require? (it may be a lot different from what the U.S. requires). If you do remarry and your spouse is not a U.S. citizen or permanent resident of the U.S., they will not be eligible for Social Security benefits. At all. How will this impact their income, especially if they've quit a job to stay home and take care of you as you age?

5. If you have domestic help, think about what will happen to them when/if you die. For example, how will they collect their final paychecks? How will your personal representative know how much to pay them, or how to pay them (cash, check, )? This may be especially an issue if your domestic staff is live-in -- they've suddenly lost home and employment.

6. If you're like most expats these days, large and important parts of your life will be conducted over the internet. And if you're like most internet users these days, you'll have a lot of different passwords. Please, please, please figure out a way to get those passwords to the people who will need them after you're gone. If you conduct your investments and banking online, you may not even have tax forms sent to your address, so your heirs may not even be able to find your bank accounts, not to mention your email accounts.

7. As DH just said: really consider the costs of flying back to the U.S. on a regular basis to visit family and friends, especially if you have or will have grandkids. We saw my FIL one or two times a year, and were lucky to see him even that much, given that his kids were on both coasts and in the midwest. A trip to visit everyone was long, expensive, and covered a lot of miles. How are you going to finance this? And don't say "Oh, I'll be living in a wonderful, inexpensive location. They'll come to see me!" Your kids, much as they miss you, are going to have a hard time swinging the costs to visit you on a regular basis, especially if they've got kids to bring along, too. And they may not want to have ALL their vacation time and vacation money, every year, spent on going to the same location, no matter how fabulous it is.

8. What will happen when and if you become permanently disabled? My FIL's widow came to stay with us for his U.S. memorial service, and one of the things she said to me was "I don't know what we would have done if he had become permanently disabled and needed nursing home care -- we just couldn't afford it." And Medicaid would only have covered him if he lived in the U.S. So would she have moved back to the U.S. with him, leaving her job and family behind? Could she have gotten a green card? Work? When you look at the availability of health care in your country of choice, you also need to consider the long-term care options, since you likely won't have family networks to care for you in your dotage (unless you marry someone from there...).

9. Can you afford to relocate if things go south in your chosen country of abode? Political climates change, policies are made or abolished. As an expat, you won't have the same or maybe as many rights as a citizen -- what would you do in those situations?

I don't think that retiring abroad is a bad idea, but I do think that it bears careful consideration, especially as regards estate planning and social services / eldercare. So many things are different, even in cultures that appear to be close to ours. I think it's a great idea for some, but if you are going to retire abroad, take some time to take care of the details earlier rather than later.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:52 PM   #2
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What an excellent post - TY for taking the time to put all that down in one place.
I have no plans to become an ex-pat. However, we do plan to travel to Canada for longer trips (like the rail trip that goes to the Canadian Rockies) and shorter weekend trips (only 2 hours drive to the border), so even extended travel to a different country might create some of the issues you've raised here.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:28 PM   #3
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Great post. There is much food for thought whether you are a expatriate or not. Some of these issues are just as dicey if you retire right here. Thanks for posting this, I am going to share this with my husband.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:13 PM   #4
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Thanks for the eye-opening post.

OK, that's it. No more pipe dreaming of retiring to an exotic locale for me. It's not very likely that I would do that, but reading your post reinforced my thinking that it's a lot more hassle than I want to go through. My wife already snickered at my plan to relocate to the Puget Sound. I'll just stay here in the Southwest and die a desiccated mummy.
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:15 PM   #5
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Thanks Urchina, very interesting post. Though my situation is not quite that of an expat, I face many of the same challenges outlined in your post, and while I had already addressed some of them, I found that others merit more attention on my part.
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Old 03-17-2009, 02:56 AM   #6
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Just changing states can lead to unforeseen complications. My accountant asked me why I hadn't sent him a 1099 from a bank I had reported the year before. Turns out that the bank couldn't forward 1099s so I never got it. I had closed the account and forgot that I would need a 1099 - so failed to give them my new state's address. Worked out OK thanks to alert accountant.

Several similar glitches have occurred, some of which were insignificant. One thing I'm still struggling with is car registration here (since I will be gone when it comes due) and car registration for a car I leave at my old location. Add to that the insurance issues with these cars and it's a pain.

I live in fear that some governmental agency will ask me for a document which is in storage elsewhere. I'd hate to fly 5000 miles to try to find my SS card for instance. Each time I visit my old state, I try to gather more stuff I might need. Funny how many things there are and how difficult they can be to find.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:13 PM   #7
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Thank you very much, Urchina, for the post. Many of these points are important even for those of us living in the U.S.
For example, it would be hell for our executor to figure out DH and my finances, because we do most everything online and the executor doesn't have even a list of all the institutions where we have accounts. We can produce the list for ourselves, but only because we know our software.
OTOH I'm not comfortable divulging all that yet. Maybe in an envelope (to be opened upon our death)?
Sheesh, lots to think about.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by toofrugalformycat View Post
Thank you very much, Urchina, for the post. Many of these points are important even for those of us living in the U.S.
For example, it would be hell for our executor to figure out DH and my finances, because we do most everything online and the executor doesn't have even a list of all the institutions where we have accounts. We can produce the list for ourselves, but only because we know our software.
OTOH I'm not comfortable divulging all that yet. Maybe in an envelope (to be opened upon our death)?
Sheesh, lots to think about.
Why not a Letter of Instructions to the one that will have the chore. I have a letter I keep up dated with all data I think she will need. It was a chore to initially set up but can be easily updated as changes (or new thoughts come to mind). The file has a name she will recognize (which she knows) in a software program she knows how to use. It can be encrypted to protect the sensitive data (be sure to provide the key for the one that needs it).

It may be a good idea to start a thread on what would be recommended here for a LOI.
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:49 PM   #9
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We can produce the list for ourselves, but only because we know our software.
OTOH I'm not comfortable divulging all that yet. Maybe in an envelope (to be opened upon our death)?
Sheesh, lots to think about.
Isn't this the sort of thing that one would leave with his/her lawyer, along with the will? I plan to do something like that.

ha
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:09 AM   #10
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Urchina, thank you for an excellent post.

Somehow I missed it when it came out.

ed
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:30 AM   #11
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Good post, but a lot of the same concerns can be said for a cheap retirement destination in the U.S. A lot of full time RVer would face the same lack of contact. It isn't cheap to drag hundreds of thousands of pounds of your living quarters and belongings on a coast-to-coast trip to see the grand kids. The same concern for nursing home care, passwords, will, etc. also apply. The one thing that is different is that the spouse may not be a foreign national.
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:44 AM   #12
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I'm glad settling your FIL's affairs is working out okay, Urchina. My father died overseas a long time ago and the overseas funeral and transporting his remains for a stateside burial were complicated and expensive.

I wonder what the ratio of retirees without children to those with (adult) children is in the expat communities.
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:41 PM   #13
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THANK YOU urchina for this incredible masterpiece of heads up on our final days, complete with all kinds of necessary informative details! I only came across it now, 10 years after you wrote it and I know I'll benefit from it.

I'm 91 yo and have no longer family nor close friends to be my executor, successor trustee, etc. Very tough having to place all my entire life/death in the hands of a stranger. Found an estate lawyer but not happy as he doesn't seem to have enough experience. And I'm stuck with him as I'm terribly tired of the hassle of searching, checking backgrounds, etc.

Thanks again and wish you and all the others in this thread a smooth and uncomplicated departure from Earth.
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:45 PM   #14
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Thank you for a great post .It has given me a lot to think about
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Old 03-29-2019, 09:54 PM   #15
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THANK YOU urchina for this incredible masterpiece of heads up on our final days, complete with all kinds of necessary informative details! I only came across it now, 10 years after you wrote it and I know I'll benefit from it.

I'm 91 yo and have no longer family nor close friends to be my executor, successor trustee, etc. Very tough having to place all my entire life/death in the hands of a stranger. Found an estate lawyer but not happy as he doesn't seem to have enough experience. And I'm stuck with him as I'm terribly tired of the hassle of searching, checking backgrounds, etc.

Thanks again and wish you and all the others in this thread a smooth and uncomplicated departure from Earth.
Hi again All. I'm wondering if anywhere in this excellent website there's someone, as I, without family and close friends and how that person manages the final arrangements? It should be very helpful to us alone individuals. Thank you.
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:48 AM   #16
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Hi again All. I'm wondering if anywhere in this excellent website there's someone, as I, without family and close friends and how that person manages the final arrangements? It should be very helpful to us alone individuals. Thank you.
Sorry that I can't give definitive help, as @ age 83, we still have family, and live in a senior community, so our plans are pretty well set. That said, just a few ideas. As you obviously have a good mind, and are well in touch with the world, some thoughts.

First... a lead in to eldercare, and the services available.
https://eldercare.acl.gov/Public/Index.aspx\

The next step may be to look for a specialty "eldercare lawyer" experienced not only in law, but the the ability to deal with older persons and the wider concerns beyond wills and trusts.

Another possibility... based on our own experience. A visit to a well regarded senior living facility. Let me explain:

In our entire complex, ranging from senior homes to to nursing home and an alzheimer, there are probably 450 persons. This inevitably means the we lose a good percentage of residents every year. Just a fact of life and death.
In our case, we know most of the members of management and realize that their responsibilities go far beyond personal care, but in many, many cases have to deal with the legalities involved when a person passes away. They deal with the best lawyers and all of the details that go along with closing down a personal residence, settling bills, and planning for all of the factors that are necessary.
Knowing what I know today, I would make an appointment to talk with the management of a well regarded facility for advice. It's a part of their job, and every place we visited before buying here, we were treated well, and learned more than we could have online.
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:12 PM   #17
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Sorry that I can't give definitive help, as @ age 83, we still have family, and live in a senior community, so our plans are pretty well set. That said, just a few ideas. As you obviously have a good mind, and are well in touch with the world, some thoughts.

First... a lead in to eldercare, and the services available.
https://eldercare.acl.gov/Public/Index.aspx\

The next step may be to look for a specialty "eldercare lawyer" experienced not only in law, but the the ability to deal with older persons and the wider concerns beyond wills and trusts.

Another possibility... based on our own experience. A visit to a well regarded senior living facility. Let me explain:

In our entire complex, ranging from senior homes to to nursing home and an alzheimer, there are probably 450 persons. This inevitably means the we lose a good percentage of residents every year. Just a fact of life and death.
In our case, we know most of the members of management and realize that their responsibilities go far beyond personal care, but in many, many cases have to deal with the legalities involved when a person passes away. They deal with the best lawyers and all of the details that go along with closing down a personal residence, settling bills, and planning for all of the factors that are necessary.
Knowing what I know today, I would make an appointment to talk with the management of a well regarded facility for advice. It's a part of their job, and every place we visited before buying here, we were treated well, and learned more than we could have online.
THANK YOU SO MUCH imoldernu for your awfully kind response filled with most helpful references and articles! I read them all and, although so far I’m very healthy and able to take care of my apartment and myself…one never knows what may bring tomorrow at this stage of our lives so I’m most grateful for this golden information you gave me for when I need it and some for right now.

When the time comes, I hope I can afford primarily, to stay in my apartment with whatever help I may need (I live in a secure building with needed stores close enough), and if not, in a senior community, as from what you showed me it seems like a very nice and cheerful place to spend the rest of one’s life, or as the title of a very old and interesting English sitcom says “Waiting for God” The link you gave me is most useful and I’ll keep it together with the rest of your wonderful advice.

I might’ve come across some "eldercare lawyers" in my many searches before I settled with my present estate lawyer, but I’ll try again as I could’ve overlooked some good ones due to my getting so weary of the searches, appointments, etc. As you say they might help beyond wills and trusts, as important as those documents. In fact, I’m already emailing Eldercare Locator for more information.

Although I don’t need it now and do prefer to stay in my apartment, you’re right that I should visit a senior community facility for advice, as part of getting ready so as to know what to choose when the time comes. Your link above will help me choose a couple of them to visit. When you say of your senior community “every place we visited before buying here”…did you actually buy it? Just curious. I’ve seen the pics of the senior communities that you sent me and they are most beautiful!

Again a big hug and thanks for all your wonderful information and advice. You’re a youngster compared to me lol! I wish you and your family a long and happy life at the senior community.

P.S. Love your signature…
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:50 PM   #18
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Rosedala...

I wish you could come to our Liberty Village complex here in Peru, IL. One of my very best friends is 94 and living in assisted living. You'd love her. She taught college English, and may be the sharpest person in our entire community. A total delight. My jeanie and I go to the exercise center at the same time as she goes.
So you asked if we "bought" our home... Yes... It's called a villa and is about 1560 sf... newer home... Part of what we call the campus. The way most newer care communities are going. Here's a link that covers the way we're set up. The complexes are named Liberty Village. Now 24 CCRC's mostly in the midwest.

https://simplythefinest.net/

I think the FAQ part might help in understanding what one might expect, depending on the state of health. The best part is that once one 'belongs', moving to another part of the complex is guaranteed and easy.

We have many residents who are well into their 90's and a good number who are near or over 100... and who are still in independent living in the apartments,
and who attend the many events and things like card games and social gatherings.

I had friends who were in senior facilities on Long Island... many years ago, so I'm well aware of the cost of those facilities. Costs here in Peru, are likely less than half of what they would be paying today. Independent living here in our apartments including all costs... meals, TV, internet, transportation... everything except phone is about $2700/mo.

I wish you well. Based on where you are in life, and your alertness, I'd guess you'll be a prime candidate for the Century Club.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:55 AM   #19
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DH had briefly considered an oversees retirement. But, my children, and DGD are in this country, so that's not happening.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:17 AM   #20
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I had not looked at this thread until just now. Great reference. I have a letter of instruction for DW but I will consider the letter to executor in the event of death. We are just 6 month snowbirds so the odds are 50-50 that it will happen in Mexico.
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