Losing my ambition (that's me in the corner)

[daylatedollarshort]

Here's an article I saw today on a CEO texting job candidates at odd hours on the weekend to see if they respond within 3 hours. She thinks about work all the time and wants employees that do the same:

"If you're in the process of interviewing with us, I'll text you about something at 9 p.m. or 11 a.m. on a Sunday just to see how fast you'll respond." The maximum response time she'll allow: three hours.
"It's not that I'm going to bug you all weekend if you work for me," she said, "but I want you to be responsive. I think about work all the time."

Source:
CEO of Barstool Sports: Interviewees must text back within 3 hours - Business Insider

I guess you have to have a lot of ambition towards work and not much else to be happy working for someone like that.

 

[Walt34]

Ha, I'd withdraw my application. No way would I ever have put up with crap like that!

Here's an article I saw today on a CEO texting job candidates at odd hours on the weekend to see if they respond within 3 hours. She thinks about work all the time and wants employees that do the same:

<snip>

I guess you have to have a lot of ambition towards work and not much else to be happy working for someone like that.

 

[scrabbler1]

Here's an article I saw today on a CEO texting job candidates at odd hours on the weekend to see if they respond within 3 hours. She thinks about work all the time and wants employees that do the same:

"If you're in the process of interviewing with us, I'll text you about something at 9 p.m. or 11 a.m. on a Sunday just to see how fast you'll respond." The maximum response time she'll allow: three hours.
"It's not that I'm going to bug you all weekend if you work for me," she said, "but I want you to be responsive. I think about work all the time."

Source:
CEO of Barstool Sports: Interviewees must text back within 3 hours - Business Insider

I guess you have to have a lot of ambition towards work and not much else to be happy working for someone like that.

If they are not paying me for this work time while away from the office, I would not agree to such an arrangement.

 

[ER Eddie]

Re. books extolling the virtues of leisure.

Any suggestions on what has been most enlightening?

I've enjoyed:

- How to Be Idle, by Tom Hodgkinson

- The Importance of Being Lazy, by Al Gini

- Take Back Your Time, by John de Graaf

- The Importance of Being Idle, by Stephen Robins

- Slow is Beautiful, by Cecile Andrews


Tom Hodginson can be a bit extreme, but I like his spirit. Cecile Andrews' book is probably my favorite, although it may not be quite as "on point" as the others. Al Gini's book is precisely on point. He is a professor of leisure, which sounds like a nice job. Take Back Your Time is a good read, focused on reclaiming time from work. I'd put Robins' book at the bottom, since it is made up mostly of quotes from other people, but there are some good thoughts in there about the value of leisure.

 

[Doingitwrong]

Anyone else find that, as they get older, their drive and ambition diminishes?

What I mean is, I used to have lots of dreams and goals for myself. I read motivational books, strived to really do something with my life, dreamed big (not in conventional ways, but my own version), worked hard in my career, and was pretty goal-oriented. But as I've gotten older (55 now), I find a lot of that stuff has just dropped away.

• I don't care about career success. I was never really one for "climbing the ladder," but I could not care less now.
  
• I don't have any big dreams or passion projects. I have nothing in particular that I really feel driven to accomplish or achieve.
  
• I'm not just talking in terms of career, but in terms of personal life, relationships, physical fitness, or spiritual growth. It's not that none of that matters at all. I just don't feel the urgency I used to. It's like, "Well, if it happens in the natural course of things, that's good, but I'm not going to make a special project out of it."
  
• I used to be much more disciplined. I'd have goal sheets for myself every week about what I wanted to get done, to stay on track with my overall goals. I don't do any of that anymore. It seems like too much pressure and structure.
  
• I used to want to be a writer. Don't care anymore. Other big dreams have also fallen to the wayside. Not as disappointments, but just as things I've shed.
  
• At work (I still work part-time), I just come in and do the job, but that's about it. I don't strive to improve. I don't strive for excellence (lol). I keep my professional face intact, but underneath I'm not particularly motivated.

A number of factors are contributing, I think -- increased maturity (so a lot of what used to seem important, doesn't); decreased energy levels; overcoming narcissistic needs to be special; overcoming self-esteem issues that led to a need to prove myself and over-compensate; comfortable competence in my work so I can relax; unearthing more of who I really am, which honestly is sort of lazy and isn't all that interested in achieving, accomplishing, etc. Also, feeling like I've done a lot of hard work in my life, and I just want to take it easy.

Anyhow, just wondering if others have noticed this diminished drive or ambition, as they've gotten older or shifted into retirement or semi-retirement?

This sums up how I arrived here at 54! And checking out at 55.

 

[bloom2708]

At 44-45, my ambition sunk to a very low level. I changed careers and at 46 my ambition is returning. I think in this new role I can tough it out for another 8-10.

Another thing that helped is my wife pulled back and is "at home" with our busy 3 kids. She might return once the oldest 2 are off to college.

 

[ER Eddie]

OP here. I'm surprised this thread is still going. I guess it touched on something a lot of people think about.

It's been helpful to me to frame it as a transitional phase. I see myself as in transition. I've let go of the old ambitions, but I haven't quite found the new ones yet. I'm in a sort of limbo, which I think is a natural part of transitions. You let go of the old way of life, and there is a period of drifting before you find the new way. You set off from one shore, and you're at sea for a while, before you find the new shore.

That's sort of how I see myself. In transition.

I also think of Richard Rohr, and how he talks about the first half of life, and the second half of life. The first half of life is concerned with learning how to function in society, building a sense of self, build a career, start a family, etc. The second half of life (which is not chronological, but a psychological or spiritual thing) involves a shift to more spiritual matters (questions of meaning, of what matters).

I see that happening, too, although those "second half of life" concerns have always been with me. My dad used to say I was 16 going on 60, which he meant as an insult, but I think it captured a part of the truth.

Anyway, don't mean to ramble. Just thinking about this whole process of transitioning from one stage of life, with its concerns, to another. I think there's a period of drifting or limbo involved, and I think I'm in it.

 

[Scuba]

I totally agree! After w*rking hard for 30-40+ years, I don't think the transition happens overnight for many people. So far I am loving being ER'd but am definitely still in transition re how I want to spend my time. May always be as I try new and different things.

 

[target2019]

Anyway, don't mean to ramble. Just thinking about this whole process of transitioning from one stage of life, with its concerns, to another. I think there's a period of drifting or limbo involved, and I think I'm in it.

Rambling is good practice for transitioning to phase #2.
Phase #1 - accumulation vs. Phase #2 de-cumulation

Another perspective is to consider your earning power over time. For example:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/do-you-show-human-capital-on-the-balance-sheet/

We find ourselves at some interval on that curve with regard to earning potential, and are adjusting mentally to what are continuous changes. I am getting very close to the 40th year in the graphic. I think that without seeing the graphic, we also know that something is changing.

 

[Totoro]

"If you're in the process of interviewing with us, I'll text you about something at 9 p.m. or 11 a.m. on a Sunday just to see how fast you'll respond." The maximum response time she'll allow: three hours.

Since I'm rarely awake on a Sunday before noon I guess I'll miss that career opportunity of a lifetime. I think I'll manage.

 

[Marita40]

A classic book on the importance of leisure: Leisure: the Basis of Culture, by Josef Pieper.

 

[Jeffman52]

Here's an article I saw today on a CEO texting job candidates at odd hours on the weekend to see if they respond within 3 hours. She thinks about work all the time and wants employees that do the same:

"If you're in the process of interviewing with us, I'll text you about something at 9 p.m. or 11 a.m. on a Sunday just to see how fast you'll respond." The maximum response time she'll allow: three hours.
"It's not that I'm going to bug you all weekend if you work for me," she said, "but I want you to be responsive. I think about work all the time."

Source:
CEO of Barstool Sports: Interviewees must text back within 3 hours - Business Insider

I guess you have to have a lot of ambition towards work and not much else to be happy working for someone like that.

Holy crap!!! I think I work for this person! Probably not but its the same thing, kind of. The leadership where I work has lost all consideration for work/life balance. It is not unusual now to get a call at 10PM or 4AM or to have someone call you 'unplanned' on the weekend and expect you to log in and create a PPT or be on a call. Friggin ridiculous.

 

[JoeWras]

Holy crap!!! I think I work for this person! Probably not but its the same thing, kind of. The leadership where I work has lost all consideration for work/life balance. It is not unusual now to get a call at 10PM or 4AM or to have someone call you 'unplanned' on the weekend and expect you to log in and create a PPT or be on a call. Friggin ridiculous.

+2. I thought it was my place of w*rk too.

The B.S. Bucket is really getting heavy.

 

[Focus]

A buzz phrase or word can help to give the impression that an author has discovered or created an entirely new perspective or concept. Explaining his/her ideas in plain English would often reveal that this not necessarily the case.

I well remember this from corporate life. Someone in upper management would read a then-popular business book (e.g., "Good to Great") and encourage others in management to do the same. Suddenly, you'd hear jargon from the book all the time (e.g., "get the right people on the bus"). It would last about a year or two, until the next book uncovering all the new secrets of success.

 

[Nemo2]

I well remember this from corporate life. Someone in upper management would read a then-popular business book (e.g., "Good to Great") and encourage others in management to do the same. Suddenly, you'd hear jargon from the book all the time (e.g., "get the right people on the bus"). It would last about a year or two, until the next book uncovering all the new secrets of success.

I remember it well!

 

[Focus]

It's been helpful to me to frame it as a transitional phase. I see myself as in transition. I've let go of the old ambitions, but I haven't quite found the new ones yet. I'm in a sort of limbo, which I think is a natural part of transitions. You let go of the old way of life, and there is a period of drifting before you find the new way. You set off from one shore, and you're at sea for a while, before you find the new shore.

That's sort of how I see myself. In transition.

I also think of Richard Rohr, and how he talks about the first half of life, and the second half of life. The first half of life is concerned with learning how to function in society, building a sense of self, build a career, start a family, etc. The second half of life (which is not chronological, but a psychological or spiritual thing) involves a shift to more spiritual matters (questions of meaning, of what matters).

I see that happening, too, although those "second half of life" concerns have always been with me. My dad used to say I was 16 going on 60, which he meant as an insult, but I think it captured a part of the truth.

Anyway, don't mean to ramble. Just thinking about this whole process of transitioning from one stage of life, with its concerns, to another. I think there's a period of drifting or limbo involved, and I think I'm in it.

You're not rambling at all. It's well-articulated, interesting stuff. I can totally relate to what you're saying.

I also tended to be "mature thinking" for my years and forward looking. As soon as I retired, the focus shifted to the present, bringing a sense of greater responsibility, in a way. It's relatively easy to think of the future (and plan for it) and much more challenging to have a fulfilling and meaningful "now."

Nearly three years into retirement, I still feel in transition. I don't expect to find a hidden passion -- I think that's generally a quixotic quest. And it's hard to argue with the fact that options narrow as one ages, for a variety of reasons. Right now, I'm not sure there is another shore and maybe being at peace with that is a necessary part of my spiritual development.

Have you read the Merrill Lynch / Age Wave report on leisure in retirement? I especially appreciate the four stages of retirement leisure detailed on pp. 18-20. This description of the second phase might ring some bells:

There’s an enormous sense of liberation and relief as most (78%) feel they finally have enough free time. Nearly all (92%) say retirement provides them with the freedom to now do what they want—and on their own terms. However, during this transitional period, some still feel unsettled, anxious, or bored, and 35% say it’s harder to structure their time than before they retired. 47% still say they feel guilty about not using leisure productively.

The "enormous sense of liberation and relief" fades pretty fast. Leisure becomes the new normal. We're adaptable creatures. I mentioned in a previous thread how obtaining an unstressful, very part-time job helped me continue to appreciate my hard-earned leisure.

 

[ER Eddie]

It's relatively easy to think of the future (and plan for it) and much more challenging to have a fulfilling and meaningful "now."

That's an interesting thought. I've gotten convinced recently that part of the solution to my sense of being adrift is to set goals. I'm going to do that, but it also strikes me that what you're saying makes perfect sense -- that it is easier to plan for the future than it is to live in the now.

Maybe one of my goals for the future should be to have a better present.

Nearly three years into retirement, I still feel in transition. I don't expect to find a hidden passion -- I think that's generally a quixotic quest.

Yeah, I've tried and tried to "find my passion," and it just hasn't shown up. I have come to believe that I don't "do" passion. I find it more helpful to think in terms of what interests me or what I enjoy.

Have you read the Merrill Lynch / Age Wave report on leisure in retirement? I especially appreciate the four stages of retirement leisure detailed on pp. 18-20. This description of the second phase might ring some bells:

That does sound familiar -- especially that last line, about the 47% who feel guilty about not spending their leisure time productively.

The "enormous sense of liberation and relief" fades pretty fast. Leisure becomes the new normal. We're adaptable creatures. I mentioned in a previous thread how obtaining an unstressful, very part-time job helped me continue to appreciate my hard-earned leisure.

Yes, I remember that comment, and that made sense to me. Days off would start to feel less special, when every day is a day off. Doing a little low-stress, low-hours work would be an ideal way to keep that contrast. I hope to find something like that for myself.

 

[Surewhitey]

I had a 3 year stint of trying out "almost full retirement". I'm there on the passion thing. I really enjoy a lot of things, but I didn't know of some of these until I took the time off to find them. Living in Mexico, I found spearfishing, snorkeling and scuba. None of these would have surfaced to the level they did until we had the time to enjoy them.

Also, we have the travel bug and living there allowed us to travel more in 2 years than the prior 15. I'm back at w*rk, but with a view to not working soon, again.

I don't let 23 yr olds who know it all bother me, I just ignore them and do my thing. If I don't contribute to the profit enough, I'll go back to my thing on the beach. DW is the reason for working anyhoo.

Ambition to do a good job and enjoy my job is the only thing I have for w*rk. I get other fringe benefits "after hours" to put up with an occasional stressful day.

My $.02

 

[Focus]

Days off would start to feel less special, when every day is a day off. Doing a little low-stress, low-hours work would be an ideal way to keep that contrast. I hope to find something like that for myself.

Along those lines...

When Working In Retirement Is The Way To Go | Retirement – Only the Beginning

 

[ER Eddie]

Along those lines...

When Working In Retirement Is The Way To Go | Retirement – Only the Beginning

Two days a week, doing wine-tasting tours. Now that's a part-time gig I can get behind. Well, not really -- I'm an introvert, so I wouldn't want to lead tours. But it sounds great for him.

I'm currently transitioning to part-time at my current job. I have to see how that pans out, before I know what my next move is (i.e., whether to stay here or look for another part-time gig elsewhere, or maybe just take a year off and see how that goes).

 

[O2Bfree]

I well remember this from corporate life. Someone in upper management would read a then-popular business book (e.g., "Good to Great") and encourage others in management to do the same. Suddenly, you'd hear jargon from the book all the time (e.g., "get the right people on the bus"). It would last about a year or two, until the next book uncovering all the new secrets of success.

I just got an email from an "associate" (i.e. coworker) talking about "promoting" (i.e. advertising) a "top delighter" (i.e. something that customers like), wondering if I'd want to "author" (i.e. write) a blog about it. He said he could "partner with me" (i.e. work with me) on it.

 

[Focus]

I just got an email from an "associate" (i.e. coworker) talking about "promoting" (i.e. advertising) a "top delighter" (i.e. something that customers like), wondering if I'd want to "author" (i.e. write) a blog about it. He said he could "partner with me" (i.e. work with me) on it.

Sounds like a win-win.

 

[limeyx]

Sounds like a win-win.

I'll run that up the flagpole and see who salutes

 

[Koolau]

I'll run that up the flagpole and see who salutes

Don't forget to run it by your stakeholders!

 

[Markola]

Yeah, now that's really out of the box thinking. Time to ramp up and lean in!