More Clickbait

[Nightcap]

My morning reading turned up an article published in The Motley Fool retirees' dissatisfaction with life after w*rk. I should know better, but I clicked.

The first point was that 28% of retirees are unhappy with their lives. I tend to read that as "72% of retirees are happy," but I guess that doesn't attract eyeballs.

Scrolling down a bit, I find the plonkingly obvious statement that not all costs go down in retirement. But then they cite food costs, which is nuts. Food costs absolutely go down. I'm not buying my lunches anymore. Yes, had I been truly frugal, I would have made my lunches at home, but I often didn't have time. And even if I did, there's still the evening meals. I remember any number of nights when the Unindicted Co-Conspirator and I got home late and worn out, and just ordered take-out for dinner. Now, we buy what's on sale this week and can easily devote an hour or two to home cooking. (Hey, Purdue oven-roaster chickens are 98 cents a pound! That's chicken dinner, leftovers, and soup!)

Now, it is true that not everyone is as fortunate as we are. I have friends and family who can't afford to retire, and if circumstances force them to, will be living in straitened circumstances. That's a prospect that fills no one with joy. And yet, the majority of retirees seem to be enjoying life after labor.

[ER Eddie]

I'll bet that percentage (28% dissatisfied) is similar to what you'd find if you asked ten thousand random working people whether they were satisfied or dissatisfied with their lives.

In other words, I don't think it's specific to retirement. I think you'll find about 28% of people dissatisfied with their lives, whether they're retired or not.

If that's true, then it's really not about retirement at all. It's like saying 28% of people who live in Kansas are dissatisfied with their lives, or 28% of people who drive Toyotas are unhappy with their lives.

Or, in other words, correlation doesn't equal causation...

[Nightcap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie I'll bet that percentage (28% dissatisfied) is similar to what you'd find if you asked ten thousand random people whether they were satisfied or dissatisfied with their lives. In other words, I don't think it's specific to retirement. I think you'll find a significant chunk (28% in this case) dissatisfied with their lives -- whether they're retired or not. If that's true, then it's really not about retirement at all. It's like saying 28% of people who live in Kansas are dissatisfied with their lives, or 28% of people who drive Toyotas are unhappy with their lives. Or, in other words, correlation doesn't equal causation...

Good point! In which case it's a very low dissatisfaction rate indeed.

[Senator]

I hope the 28% go back to work, I may need the SS...

[Red Badger]

We do actually eat out more often. I make DW go with me a few times a months. I used to brown bag lunch and, on occasion, add soup from the cafeteria ($1). Did same as road warrior - buy groceries first night (both for dinner and lunch) to last the duration.

We buy a lot more organic (past few years) and also patronize our awesome farmers market. While this does cost a lot more, we're of the mindset that clean food is it's own medicine. Supporting our community feels right, too. Grass fed beef, free range chickens, and wild salmon are important to us. Any fruits/veggies where we eat the skin (potatoes, apples, etc) need to be organic. I grew up on a farm and our livestock were always well treated (that is, until we put a fork in 'em). There's a lot about modern agri-mega that is anti-consumer, and just plain animal cruelty.

On the happiness part. I used to work second shift supervisor in a factory. I'd always ask my first shift peer how his day was. In the year that I was there, he never once had anything but a very negative response. I always thought that he was mentally ill. Maybe depression or something?

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightcap Good point! In which case it's a very low dissatisfaction rate indeed.

Here's a poll saying that, in the US, 20% of people say they are unhappy:
Global Poll Shows 53% of the World Is "Happy" -- But What About the U.S.?

Here's one that says 40% of people in the UK are unhappy with their lives:
Just three in 10 people feel 'happy with their lives' - Telegraph

Stats on this vary widely, because so much depends on how you ask the questions and how you calculate things, but overall, seems like a lot of people are just unhappy with their lives, period.

So it probably has very little to do with being retired per se, but with other factors.

[CaptTom]

My first question would be, did they survey a representative sampling of retirees or just early retirees. I would tend to imagine that a large percentage of the former group didn't retire on their own terms, and are justifiably unhappy about it.

Add to that the percentage who have had unhappy things happen to them or their families post-retirement. Then those who are just generally unhappy with life (as mentioned above.) I don't see 28% as a very high number.

[Cessna152]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Here's a poll saying that, in the US, 20% of people say they are unhappy: Global Poll Shows 53% of the World Is "Happy" -- But What About the U.S.? Here's one that says 40% of people in the UK are unhappy with their lives: Just three in 10 people feel 'happy with their lives' - Telegraph Stats on this vary widely, because so much depends on how you ask the questions and how you calculate things, but overall, seems like a lot of people are just unhappy with their lives, period. So it probably has very little to do with being retired per se, but with other factors.

Here's a Gallop trend poll seems to suggest that the cited 72% retiree satisfaction is only a bit lower than that of the general population (as you note, the polls probably aren't even measuring the same thing):

Satisfaction With Personal Life | Gallup Historical Trends

A graph from that web page:

[Winemaker]

The couple that had their $5,000 sailboat sink from the other thread, were in the 28%!


But I do recall a co worker years ago, who returned to work after a year saying," There's only so many times you can clean out the garage before there's nothing left to throw out!"

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightcap Scrolling down a bit, I find the plonkingly obvious statement that not all costs go down in retirement. But then they cite food costs, which is nuts. Food costs absolutely go down...

They eat out more, and that costs more. Duh!

I bought 4 lbs of onion today for $1, and made a big pot of onion soup. We eat out occasionally, but like to cook.

I can't get over how food is so cheap in this country. I actually feel sorry for people who work in the food production chain. But the restaurant goers support people working in restaurant business. Who am I to say it's not good?

[NW-Bound]

Here's another thing. Retirees' unhappiness may not have anything to do with retirement. It may have a lot to do with being old.

Take my mother for example. Financially, she is doing very well: living in her own paid-off modern 1,800 sq.ft. home, having money in the bank to supplement her SS+pension and to buy whatever she wishes.

Yet she complains all the time about being unhappy. Old-age ache and pain. Loneliness as she outlived my father. Just imagine how more miserable she would be if she had to work or have no money to pay for her medicine, but she does not think that way.

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Count me among the dissatisfied early retirees: I'm sorry I didn't do this years sooner! Oh, the anguish...

-BB

[Out of Steam]

My suspicious side sometimes comes up with the idea that there are people in the financial (and general) media with an agenda to talk down the possibility and desirability of retirement.

Not sure whether it's to keep people from wishing for a retirement many won't have until their bodies and minds force them to, or to keep the labor supply up with flexible, part time workers who will stay at the grindstone at low cost.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Here's another thing. Retirees' unhappiness may not have anything to do with retirement. It may have a lot to do with being old. Take my mother for example. Financially, she is doing very well: living in her own paid-off modern 1,800 sq.ft. home, having money in the bank to supplement her SS+pension and to buy whatever she wishes. Yet she complains all the time about being unhappy. Old-age ache and pain. Loneliness as she outlived my father. Just imagine how more miserable she would be if she had to work or have no money to pay for her medicine, but she does not think that way.

Maybe she needs a boyfriend?

[copyright1997reloaded]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Or, in other words, correlation doesn't equal causation...

Ever see this site? Spurious Correlations

Some of the examples are hilarious, although one or two make me wonder if there isn't truly some weird underlying causation.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded Ever see this site? Spurious Correlations Some of the examples are hilarious, although one or two make me wonder if there isn't truly some weird underlying causation.

They left out the correlation of the market at a given time (I forget when) to butter production in Bangladesh. I always thought that one was hilarious.

[Winemaker]

It's just like the story today in the WSJ, I'd give a link but it's not worth the effort.
The gist of the story is that a larger percentage of men who take SS at 62 are dead earlier than men who take SS at 65. Do ya think that most of the ill, sick, or manual laborers that can't go on, are going to wait til 65 or 70 to file?
I plan to take at 70, or maybe 66 8/12ths, but if I'm diagnosed terminal, I filing on the way home from the doctor who gave me a second/third opinion.

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Out of Steam My suspicious side sometimes comes up with the idea that there are people in the financial (and general) media with an agenda to talk down the possibility and desirability of retirement. Not sure whether it's to keep people from wishing for a retirement many won't have until their bodies and minds force them to, or to keep the labor supply up with flexible, part time workers who will stay at the grindstone at low cost.

I think it's because they stand to benefit from the anxiety they stir up by these sorts of articles. Notice that the people writing and publishing them are often people selling financial or investment services, advice about retirement, etc. It's the circle of advertising -- stir up anxiety, then provide a "solution."