Moved into CCRC today

[old medic]

Congratulations on the move.

 

[kcowan]

Sounds like a tough test!

There were actually 3 entrance requirements:

1. Financial and income statement, they want to be sure you have enough assets and income to pay the fees of a long while. They have a trust fund for people who eventually run out of money so they can stay. They do not take Medicaid. I was told that 2 ladies are getting payments from the trust fund because they have run out of money--they are ages 104 and 105!

2. Health requirements. They get all your health records. My DH has to go before the health committee for an interview because he has some chronic health problems. They wait to be sure that you can live independently for at least 5 years.

3. A cognitive test that was surprisingly hard.

When will you know? It sounds exciting.

Is the financial test also for five years?

 

[walkinwood]

Congratulations!


Please come back with an update in a year.

 

[harllee]

When will you know? It sounds exciting.

Is the financial test also for five years?

We passed all the requirements 3 months ago and moved in yesterday after the apartment was renovated. The financial test is a ratio-- your assets have to a certain multiple of the entrance fee and your income has to be a certain multiple of the monthly fees. I had delayed taking SS until age 70 and that helped in meeting the monthly income requirements.

The couple who lives above us invited us to join them at dinner tonight, food was delicious in the more formal restaurant, you must have a dinner reservation there. Their apartment is the same floor plan as ours, they took us on a tour of theirs, good to see how they decorated it. One advantage we have is that we are a ground floor unit with nice patio. We are going to buy some patio furniture and a patio umbrella. We already have a propane grill.

 

[Dreamer]

Congratulations! It sounds like you are in a lovely place.

We were told that it is better to go in at a younger age, so that you have time to enjoy the amenities and can make friends. We are on the list and have been called twice (ours doesn't sound as nice as yours), but passed each time. My DH does not want to do it. He has had some health problems, so I don't know if he could get in. Our son and dil moved next door to us, so I may never make it to one.

Looking forward to hearing more about your experiences. I might have to live vicariously through you.

 

[flyingaway]

If CCRC is in such a high demand, why don't they build more?

 

[Koolau]

If CCRC is in such a high demand, why don't they build more?

No expert, but I believe I've heard that these are relatively high risk investments.

Think about the requirements above that potential residents must pass. Just because their residents pass these requirements doesn't mean that significant numbers of residents will not require taking from the trust fund to stay in the CCRC.

I've also heard that the actual investors have been willing to cut and run when the CCRCs get in trouble. I don't know this for a fact, but I'd want to check it out before joining a CCRC. YMMV

 

[lucky penny]

If CCRC is in such a high demand, why don't they build more?

State regulations governing CCRCs vary considerably. NYS has only 13 CCRCs due to its strict regulations while numerous states have 100+.

 

[Cayman]

Best wishes Harllee. Very good planning has landed you and your husband where you desire to be. Sounds like a great place!

 

[harllee]

If CCRC is in such a high demand, why don't they build more?

They are several new ones going up in the Raleigh/Durham area and several of the existing ones in the area are being expanded. But it is a major project. It is not like building an apartment complex. For every independent living unit you have to have a certain number of assisted living, skilled nursing and memory care units. And then there is all the staffing. And the dining options--we have 5 dining options just in my building.

One reason the waiting list is so long at my CCRC is that it is a Type A Life Care and there are not many of them--most are the fee for services type.

One factor that contributes to the long waiting lists in my area is that so many retirees are moving here. The couple I had dinner with last night are originally from Pennsylvania, then they retired and moved to Florida and did not like it, so they did a search for CCRCs in the southeast and ended up here.

I am surprised at how few native North Carolinians there are here--in fact there is an informal club for us which we have been invited to join.

 

[Pellice]

Congratulations, Harlee! I just toured a CCRC and am going to take the next step and see if I financially qualify - that's free! I will be very interested in your experience. I'm only 67, and would probably qualify for a villa in a couple of years, though I don't plan on moving anywhere for 3-5 years.

I didn't really love any of the floor plans, but the attraction of making a single decision - to move in - and shedding every unwished-for decision afterwards is VERY attractive.

For example, something just went wrong with my doorbell - stupid thing, but I can't get it to stop running and creating static. The joy of getting it taken care of easily ...

I am in good health and basically feel the same as I did 20 years ago, but I know I won't stay that way. But everyone looked much older than I at this place! My niece said that all the people my age were probably out "doing things." I'm not so sure.

I don't have children, and one of my primary motivations is to make things easier on my niece, who will likely be my future caregiver.

Sorry, Harlee, this is your thread and here I am talking about myself. But the tour and initial consultation just took place. I really will be interested in how you adjust!

 

[harllee]

Pellice, I think it is a very good idea for you to look into CCRCs. We are like you with no children. Regarding floor plans the place we moved allows some modifications to floor plans. For example, in our apartment we had a choice of a large great room or it could be walled off to make a smaller living room and a small den. We opted for the large great room and we will divide it with some shelves to make an office area. I too think the residents look old but then I look at the mirror and realize I look old too!

 

[nwsteve]

While we use the CCRC label as a convenience, it is important to not forget there are actually THREE very different offerings in that category--Types A-C. Tyoe A(Life Care) characterized by significant buy-in which locks in your care cost the rest of your life regardless of how much you required. Type C is simply a rental congregate care community with three levels of care priced at market when you require. Type B is a hybrid of A & C.
Admittedly, an oversimplification but posting simply to remind newcomers, all CCRCs are NOT equivalents.

 

[harllee]

While we use the CCRC label as a convenience, it is important to not forget there are actually THREE very different offerings in that category--Types A-C. Tyoe A(Life Care) characterized by significant buy-in which locks in your care cost the rest of your life regardless of how much you required. Type C is simply a rental congregate care community with three levels of care priced at market when you require. Type B is a hybrid of A & C.
Admittedly, an oversimplification but posting simply to remind newcomers, all CCRCs are NOT equivalents.

Thanks. The CCRC I moved into is a Type A Life Care. I paid a large entry fee and I pay monthly fees and if I have to move from independent living to a higher level of care (like skilled nursing) my monthly fee stays the same.

Last night we met a resident that I knew prior to moving to the CCRC for dinner in the pub in the CCRC. It is a bar that serves surprisingly good food. I had a lobster roll (delicious), DH had fish and chips and I had a drink called a "mule" which combines ginger beer and vodka. I liked it. There was a performer playing a guitar and singer, he was pretty good. We all wear name tags and I am glad of that because I am meeting so many people. My name tag has a green ribbon that indicates I am a new resident and so many people come up to me to introduce themselves and welcome us.

One thing I am having to remember--there is a button beside the bathroom door I have to push every morning by 10 am to let them know I am up and alive. If I don't push it they call me and if I don't answer someone comes to my apt to check on me. A good thing.

I also have an emergency pendant to wear around my neck, we are not required to wear it yet but some people (for example those who fall) are required to wear it. DH and I have decided that for now we will not wear it if both of us are together but we will wear it if we are alone. My mother is in a CCRC and is required to wear a pendent because she is a fall risk in her 90s. She fell last fall the the pendant probably saved her life.

 

[youbet]

Thanks. The CCRC I moved into is a Type A Life Care. I paid a large entry fee and I pay monthly fees and if I have to move from independent living to a higher level of care (like skilled nursing) my monthly fee stays the same.

It works a bit differently here in Illinois harllee. If you move to full nursing care, you pay a predetermined fee per month that is the same for everyone regardless of what your monthly fee for independent living in the apartment was. That means that folks who had a low monthly fee in their apartment (say a small studio unit) might be paying somewhat more when they move to full nursing care. Folks in high monthly fee units (say a 2 bed + 2.5 bath) might actually pay less to be in fuil nursing care. This avoids the situation where two residents in full nursing care are paying different amounts for the same thing.


This also accommodates the situation where a couple has one person move to full nursing care and the other remains in the independent living apartment. In that case, your monthly bill would increase by the nursing care charge for one person and decrease by the second person charge you were paying in independent living.

Keep up the great reports! Very interesting and informative.

 

[harllee]

youbet, thanks for the explanation of how it works in Illinois. There could be some CCRCs in NC that work the way you describe but that is not how my CCRC works. If you move to skilled nursing or assisted living your monthly fee stays the same as what you paid for independent living. This is an advantage for folks with smaller less expensive units although the monthly fee difference for small versus large is not that much in my CCRC. The entrance fee for small vs large is much different however. The entrance fee for a large villa is up toward $1 million, I paid much less than that for a 2 bedroom apt. If one spouse stays in independent living and the other goes to skilled nursing the combined fees stay the same as they are paying in independent living.

In my CCRC there is flexibility regarding dining. You get a certain number of points included in your rent each month to use in the dining facilities which averages about 1 full dinner per day. You do have the option to buy less points or more points and this can be changed quarterly. If you move to assisted living or skilled nursing then you are required to buy 3 meals a day so your food charge will probably go up.

As an example of how the food charges work, I get 16 points per day. If I have a steak in the main dining room and a dessert this uses my full 16 points. However, we ate last night in the pub and I did not get a dessert so I only used 12 points. You cannot use points for alcohol. If you order alcohol you are charged dollars for that. You can also bring a guest a use your points , there is a guest fee of few dollars. You cannot carry over your points from one month to another so I have heard of people eating a lot of desserts (or taking them home) at the end of the month to use up all their remaining points.

 

[disneysteve]

Best of luck to you there.

 

[nwsteve]

youbet, thanks for the explanation of how it works in Illinois. There could be some CCRCs in NC that work the way you describe but that is not how my CCRC works. If you move to skilled nursing or assisted living your monthly fee stays the same as what you paid for independent living. This is an advantage for folks with smaller less expensive units although the monthly fee difference for small versus large is not that much in my CCRC. The entrance fee for small vs large is much different however. The entrance fee for a large villa is up toward $1 million, I paid much less than that for a 2 bedroom apt. If one spouse stays in independent living and the other goes to skilled nursing the combined fees stay the same as they are paying in independent living.

In my CCRC there is flexibility regarding dining. You get a certain number of points included in your rent each month to use in the dining facilities which averages about 1 full dinner per day. You do have the option to buy less points or more points and this can be changed quarterly. If you move to assisted living or skilled nursing then you are required to buy 3 meals a day so your food charge will probably go up.

As an example of how the food charges work, I get 16 points per day. If I have a steak in the main dining room and a dessert this uses my full 16 points. However, we ate last night in the pub and I did not get a dessert so I only used 12 points. You cannot use points for alcohol. If you order alcohol you are charged dollars for that. You can also bring a guest a use your points , there is a guest fee of few dollars. You cannot carry over your points from one month to another so I have heard of people eating a lot of desserts (or taking them home) at the end of the month to use up all their remaining points.

Pretty much the same for our Type A-Life care property in Wa State. Main exception is all our meals from the restaurant are ala cart but at a price well below market--more a fully loaded cost recovery. A sister property has evolved to a choice of allowance or ala cart. For younger residents, the ala cart is better as we are away most meals or prefer to have the convenience of preparing our own.

 

[lucky penny]

youbet, thanks for the explanation of how it works in Illinois. There could be some CCRCs in NC that work the way you describe but that is not how my CCRC works. If you move to skilled nursing or assisted living your monthly fee stays the same as what you paid for independent living. This is an advantage for folks with smaller less expensive units although the monthly fee difference for small versus large is not that much in my CCRC. The entrance fee for small vs large is much different however. The entrance fee for a large villa is up toward $1 million, I paid much less than that for a 2 bedroom apt. If one spouse stays in independent living and the other goes to skilled nursing the combined fees stay the same as they are paying in independent living.

In my CCRC there is flexibility regarding dining. You get a certain number of points included in your rent each month to use in the dining facilities which averages about 1 full dinner per day. You do have the option to buy less points or more points and this can be changed quarterly. If you move to assisted living or skilled nursing then you are required to buy 3 meals a day so your food charge will probably go up.

harllee, I've been reading all your posts with great interest, & others' as well. I've been exploring CCRCs for about 2 years & have made a refundable deposit at one to get on a waitlist. I told them I probably wouldn't be ready to move in for the next 5 years (that was 18 months ago), but the truth is that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the possibility that I could actually make such a move -- a drastic change from the life I now live. I like privacy & independence & don't like the thought of losing that.

Anyway, the CCRC where I made the deposit has a Type A plan, & the monthly fee includes 30 meals at the independent living level -- no points, no prices. (Another I visited had a $450 monthly meal allowance, based on the menu prices, & if you go over that you're billed.) At the assisted living & skilled nursing levels, the monthly fee stays the same but includes 3 meals a day; you DO NOT pay a higher charge for the additional meals.

 

[SecondCor521]

As a volunteer tax preparer for AARP Foundation Tax Aide, and the son of someone in assisted living in a Type C CCRC, I just wanted to remind folks that you can generally deduct a certain percentage of the independent living cost as a Schedule A itemized deduction.

And if a primary reason for you living there is medical care - which I personally consider not to be true of independent living but to be true for assisted living, skilled nursing, and memory care - then you can deduct 100% of your food and lodging fees plus any medical care fees on Schedule A (after subtracting 7.5% of AGI, of course).

I am doing this for my Dad, and it looks like even though his rent went up moving from independent living to assisted living, his overall cost of living will actually drop measurably due to the tax effects.

IRS reference: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p502#en_US_2022_publink1000178988

 

[Telly]

harlee, that's great! Sounds like a very nice situation to be in!
Your thorough investigation and long term planning pays off for you and DH

 

[harllee]

As a volunteer tax preparer for AARP Foundation Tax Aide, and the son of someone in assisted living in a Type C CCRC, I just wanted to remind folks that you can generally deduct a certain percentage of the independent living cost as a Schedule A itemized deduction.

And if a primary reason for you living there is medical care - which I personally consider not to be true of independent living but to be true for assisted living, skilled nursing, and memory care - then you can deduct 100% of your food and lodging fees plus any medical care fees on Schedule A (after subtracting 7.5% of AGI, of course).

I am doing this for my Dad, and it looks like even though his rent went up moving from independent living to assisted living, his overall cost of living will actually drop measurably due to the tax effects.

IRS reference: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p502#en_US_2022_publink1000178988

Thanks for this reminder. I do my mother's taxes and take a large medical deduction for her CCRC and caretaker costs. I too will get a large CCRC medical deduction this year. I will get a letter from the CCRC showing the percentage of my entrance fee and monthly fees attributable to health care (usually about 35%), I look at this portion of my fees as sort of long term care insurance. I had to sharpen my pencil on whether to take the entrance fee out of my IRA and take the medical deduction or pay my entrance fee from my large HSA, in the end I did some of both.

 

[lucky penny]

As a volunteer tax preparer for AARP Foundation Tax Aide, and the son of someone in assisted living in a Type C CCRC, I just wanted to remind folks that you can generally deduct a certain percentage of the independent living cost as a Schedule A itemized deduction.

And if a primary reason for you living there is medical care - which I personally consider not to be true of independent living but to be true for assisted living, skilled nursing, and memory care - then you can deduct 100% of your food and lodging fees plus any medical care fees on Schedule A (after subtracting 7.5% of AGI, of course).

I am doing this for my Dad, and it looks like even though his rent went up moving from independent living to assisted living, his overall cost of living will actually drop measurably due to the tax effects.

IRS reference: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p502#en_US_2022_publink1000178988

The IRS reference you give addresses someone in a nursing home. Are you sure the deduction is the same for assisted living expenses?

 

[ChrisC]

The IRS reference you give addresses someone in a nursing home. Are you sure the deduction is the same for assisted living expenses?

I think the medical expense deduction here is grounded on the long term custodial care that is necessary for people who can’t independently perform 2 out of 6 ADLs or have severe cognitive impairments like dementia or Alzheimer’s that prevent independent living. It doesn’t matter if you’re in a nursing home or ALF for purposes of the medical expense deduction; the key is whether there is medical documentation that you meet the IRS standards for this medical expense deduction. My BIL has MS, and can’t independently perform 5 out of 6 ADL (and is cognitively compromised); he has been in an assisted living facility for the last 6 years and we deducted almost his entire cost of staying in this facility as a medical expense on his Federal tax returns. ( We’re now looking for a skilled nursing facility as his current place is not meeting his needs.) I’m sure someone here will reference the appropriate IRS rules here.

But to your point upthread above the CCRC you’ve been evaluating. Likewise, my wife and I are on are 2 waitlists for CCRCs in Charlotte NC. As we age, the pleasure of eating food might be one of the few senses that doesn’t diminish with age so good dining, good wait staff, and good food are at the top of our lists for CCRCs. We don’t like the point system or a dollar ceiling that some of these CCRCs impose on dining. We prefer the 30 meals a month dining plan, in which you can eat whatever is available on the menu, and the meal could be lunch or dinner in the CCRC dining facilities or take home!

 

[harllee]

Regarding the point plan for dining at my CCRC you can easily adjust the number of points each quarter from 0 points up to the equivalent of 3 meals a day. If you are going to be out of town for at least 2 weeks you can also get credit back for those days. I also like the variety of different places to eat--everything from a formal dining room where jackets are required to a regular restaurant to pub to a casual cafe where you can wear shorts and t shirt. Something for everyone. You can also have meals delivered to your apartment or get take out, we only plan to use the delivery service or take out service if we are sick or have had surgery etc. DH needs to have his second knee replacement soon and we plan to use delivery meal service then.