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Old 05-14-2021, 05:54 AM   #21
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So after a blistering experience trying to secure an apartment in Maryland and Pennsylvania ( so we could be close to our grandkids) we have come up short. I guess our Midwestern needs are what have brought us to the consensus that those areas are much too busy for our lifestyle. We have (hopefully) secured an apartment in Michigan across town and will be moving starting next week. Then DW and I can re-evaluate where we want to land in the coming months. Covid has just made everything weird. Homes are more expensive and good apartments are hard to find. We are so blessed to have our health and each other so we will make this work. Once it gets less weird it will be easy to jump on a plane in Detroit and go visit family. But for now we are taking a breath and trying to figure this all out.
Good to hear. Will provide you with relief until you move onward to your next stage in life.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:22 AM   #22
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apologies in advance for what may appear to be a thread hijack but I did want to comment on JD's post.

my mother-in-law, a widow who lived alone, suffered a bad fall at home in '06 and, after spending a few weeks in the hospital recovering it was time to move her to a rehab nursing home. my wife and I must've visited 10 or 12 nursing homes all of which had one thing in common. the "good" ones did not accept medicaid patients and those that did were...how should i phrase this....they were simply unsuitable.

her late husband was frugal and wise and had built up a substantial nest egg for her benefit in a trust and appointed my wife as the first successor trustee. the trust was more than able to pay her rehab expenses and her 10-years in assisted living. my point is this. had she not had the nest egg once her assets were depeleted she would have had to move from the "good" nursing home we found into one that was little more than a warehouse.

my personal belief is that if one has the assets available to pay for independent living, assisted living and/or skilled nursing care then those funds should be set aside for that purpose and not manipulated in order to pass the cost to the government , i.e. the taxpayer. employing a strategy to pass that baton may very well result in the loved one being forced to live out their days in a less than desireable place. all the more reason to build wealth with a long term strategy.
+1

Having just gone through this experience of picking nursing homes, what I learned was there are some homes that will take private pay patients and keep them when the money runs out.
Generally they do not accept Medicaid patients directly.

Those are the ones that are a better choice (IMHO), it also means a person needs to have $250K -> $350K of available cash to pay for 2->3 yrs before going on Medicaid.

I also found the price for nursing homes here in IL varied from $100K -> $200K per year.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:39 AM   #23
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A permanent move?? No way I'm hell! Temporary measure check out an area or lifestyle? Great idea!

We used to live a a townhouse with a big expensive HOA. One of my few regrets over the last decades. Simple repair stuff was hard and potentially expensive to get done. Too much red tape, too many people involved. Now, in single family, I just bring in a few vendors, pick one, then burn cash. Still, glad to be in full control.

Good thing about townhouse or condo is that is more lock and leave. Especially applies when it's time to leave for good. Hate the crap of selling.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:43 AM   #24
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There are apartments and there are apartments.

Big difference between a three or four story wood frame building and a concrete building.

Huge difference between a 2BR on the second floor and a 1500 sq apt with a fabulous view on the top floor or near the top floor of a hi rise concrete building.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:49 AM   #25
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There are apartments and there are apartments.

Big difference between a three or four story wood frame building and a concrete building.

Huge difference between a 2BR on the second floor and a 1500 sq apt with a fabulous view on the top floor or near the top floor of a hi rise concrete building.
Yes, view can be a significant plus - adding significant cost either to rents or cost of ownership. Our condo building (I still consider it "apartment" living) has a hazy dividing line, depending upon where you have a peek-a-boo view of the ocean vs a stunning view. When we considered moving from our wood-frame town house with a decent mountain view, we held out for a stunning view of the ocean. It DID cost us but was well worth it. YMMV
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:55 AM   #26
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We moved from a 3500 SF house into 650 SF apartment located in the backyard of a family member. A lot of stuff being donated and the rest go into a small storage unit. It was supposed to be a quick 2-month transition after we sold our house and buy a new one. But it has been 6 months. We are closing on a new house next month so there is light at the end of the tunnel. After a while we got used to the small space but not without some life style adjustment.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:59 AM   #27
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+1

Having just gone through this experience of picking nursing homes, what I learned was there are some homes that will take private pay patients and keep them when the money runs out.
Generally they do not accept Medicaid patients directly.

Those are the ones that are a better choice (IMHO), it also means a person needs to have $250K -> $350K of available cash to pay for 2->3 yrs before going on Medicaid.

I also found the price for nursing homes here in IL varied from $100K -> $200K per year.
+2 Medicaid LTC planning is my pet peeve.... effectively transfer assets to heirs and have taxpayers pick-up the bill. IMO extend the lookback period to 15 years but have some reasonable annual allowance.

Where great aunt went they favored applicants who could private pay for a period of time and if they ran out of money then Medicaid would step in... I'm ok with that as lng as there haven't been big transfers of wealth to heirs in the previous 15 years.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:10 AM   #28
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We moved from a 3500 SF house into 650 SF apartment located in the backyard of a family member. A lot of stuff being donated and the rest go into a small storage unit. It was supposed to be a quick 2-month transition after we sold our house and buy a new one. But it has been 6 months. We are closing on a new house next month so there is light at the end of the tunnel. After a while we got used to the small space but not without some life style adjustment.
Ah yes! 600SF apartment. Our last stent as tourists here in the Islands was actually in a 1BR condo for 5 weeks. We were doing our final test-run to see if we could "live" here (shopping, cooking, driving, parking, existing, etc.). We decided the "dividing line" was 2BR/2bath. Fortunately, we already owned our town-home but it was leased out. The longest we ever got to stay in it before was the 2 weeks we spent rehabbing it between sets of long-term tenants, thus the "final run through" in the 600SF apartment. Without a nice shaded lanai, DW was going nuts before the end of our stay. That told us exactly what kind of place we would need at some point in our future. The town home was certainly big enough, but the set up wasn't right - for DW. I was fine with it. SO, of course, we moved after a couple of years in the Islands - to a place DW could exist. SO far, no regrets after 10 years though YMMV.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:21 AM   #29
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We went from a 2400 sq. ft. house on an acre and a half to a 1000 sq. ft apartment to a 2400 sq ft house on a tiny lot in a busy, noisy neighborhood.

The take away for us was that we never wanted to be renters and we never wanted to have close neighbors. As a renter, you go from being in charge of your home to being subject to the whims and petty rules of people that were flipping burgers the week before. If you have a common wall or even close proximity, you get to "enjoy" the constant dog barking, domestic disputes, loud parties or just daily music of your neighbors. And if you are retired, you get to do it 24/7 unless you are away. Even in a small lot neighborhood, there is always some jackass that has to use a gas powered leaf blower every other day and run a loud pressure washer in the days between.

So in summary, as a homeowner on a decent sized lot, you can yell, "Get the hell off my lawn!"
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:25 AM   #30
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+2 Medicaid LTC planning is my pet peeve.... effectively transfer assets to heirs and have taxpayers pick-up the bill. IMO extend the lookback period to 15 years but have some reasonable annual allowance.

Where great aunt went they favored applicants who could private pay for a period of time and if they ran out of money then Medicaid would step in... I'm ok with that as lng as there haven't been big transfers of wealth to heirs in the previous 15 years.
I agree that transfer of wealth should only happen after your passing and you have done your best to pay your way.
The point I was trying to pass along that Iamolder was making was about trying to protect a surviving spouse. Those couples who sell their houses and choose to rent and use the proceeds to help fund retirement may risk leaving the surviving spouse with little to live on due to Medicaid rules. Does this sound right?
This was kinda sorta part of my plan. Sell the current paid off home worth around 350000 go by smaller place at 150000 condo type and use the 200000 to help fund retirement. But now I dunno?
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:54 AM   #31
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I agree that transfer of wealth should only happen after your passing and you have done your best to pay your way.
The point I was trying to pass along that Iamolder was making was about trying to protect a surviving spouse. Those couples who sell their houses and choose to rent and use the proceeds to help fund retirement may risk leaving the surviving spouse with little to live on due to Medicaid rules. Does this sound right?
This was kinda sorta part of my plan. Sell the current paid off home worth around 350000 go by smaller place at 150000 condo type and use the 200000 to help fund retirement. But now I dunno?
Not a recommendation but something to consider: LTC insurance out of that 200,000 - you could buy a lot if you are still reasonably healthy. Also, longevity annuities (that's not the right name - you buy an annuity now and it only starts paying off when you are "old" - that could cover a lot of decent elder care or nursing home care 10 or 15 years down the road.)

You may have several options. My take on "down-sizing" has almost as much to do with being able to take care of a place and also adapting it to your "new way of life as you age." May have more importance than planning for, say, Medicaid.

Additionally, downsizing may help you put off placing a loved one into a facility if you buy with that in mind. Setting up the downsized place (simple things such as grab bars in showers, one floor, covered parking, better weather perhaps, safer location, "wandering" prevention, on-and-on.) I think there are actually folks that help with this kind of planning in many locals. But each of us has our priorities to deal with so YMMV.
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:42 PM   #32
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+1

Having just gone through this experience of picking nursing homes, what I learned was there are some homes that will take private pay patients and keep them when the money runs out.
Generally they do not accept Medicaid patients directly.

Those are the ones that are a better choice (IMHO), it also means a person needs to have $250K -> $350K of available cash to pay for 2->3 yrs before going on Medicaid.

I also found the price for nursing homes here in IL varied from $100K -> $200K per year.
Generally agree, but having been through this I note that it is a bit more complicated than just having money to private pay for a period or not.........

The NH will look at the client's particular personal situation and their overall financial picture in making a determination. The overall financial picture will include ongoing income such as pensions and SS. So, if the client has a decent pension + SS totaling $50k annually and a $150k FIRE portfolio, they know the client can fund 3 years in their $100k/yr facility as full private pay. ($50k from ongoing income and $50k portfolio withdrawal each year.) They look at the client's age, health, likely needs, etc., and take a swag at life expectancy and make a decision.

If it turns out the client lives more than 3 years and the client's assets are depleted, the NH must reach out to the government for the annual $50k the client's pension + SS does not cover. The client moves to a Medicaid bed in that facility (usually means downgraded accommodations but in a "good" facility might still be OK) despite the fact the client is private paying $50k of the $100k annual bill.

That's one of the most interesting parts of Medicaid in Illinois. If your ongoing income covers the bulk of the NH annual bill and Medicaid is paying only a small amount, you're still on Medicaid and receive Medicaid level accommodations.

Back on topic. I agree that (all the above complications aside) in the states I'm familiar with, owning a home (as opposed to selling and renting) provides at least a bit of financial protection for the at-home spouse when one goes into a NH.
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Yes my thread was seriously hijacked
Old 05-14-2021, 12:58 PM   #33
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Yes my thread was seriously hijacked

Thanks to all who replied.
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:59 PM   #34
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Thanks. I will start a new thread after I have moved in to report back. This one has gone to the great beyond....
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Old 05-14-2021, 01:57 PM   #35
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Thanks. I will start a new thread after I have moved in to report back. This one has gone to the great beyond...
Back on the subject of apartments - and closely tied to "going to the great beyond" - is this news story I ran across today:

Quote:
Ana Cardenas’ apartment was splattered with blood dripping onto her from the ceiling. The blood covered her bed, clothing, furniture - and even her hair.

Cardenas says she immediately called 911 and her apartment management. When officers got to her unit, they looked around and decided to check the apartment above hers - only to find her upstairs neighbor dead and decomposing.
https://www.news4sanantonio.com/news...ng-on-her-face
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Old 05-14-2021, 02:30 PM   #36
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DW & I recently sold our 2600 sqft home of 28 years and initially looked at apartments in the area. But driving around the parking lots made us realize how much we'd miss our own driveway and garage. So we found a new duplex community and been very happy. It's only 1350 sqft, but has double car garage and driveway, gated community with clubhouse and pool. The downsizing to move was difficult (and not finished!) but we really love our little place!
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Old 05-14-2021, 06:08 PM   #37
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I have a full house and a separate full barn. I dread the downsize that is coming.
Why is a downsizing coming
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Old 05-14-2021, 08:37 PM   #38
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DW & I recently sold our 2600 sqft home of 28 years and initially looked at apartments in the area. But driving around the parking lots made us realize how much we'd miss our own driveway and garage. So we found a new duplex community and been very happy. It's only 1350 sqft, but has double car garage and driveway, gated community with clubhouse and pool. The downsizing to move was difficult (and not finished!) but we really love our little place!
Only?! That was approximately our pre-downsizing amount of space, and it seemed like plenty for two people. As I mentioned above, I downsized (alone) to 400+ square feet. Now, that's small! But I realize it's all relative.
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Old 05-14-2021, 09:25 PM   #39
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Only?! That was approximately our pre-downsizing amount of space, and it seemed like plenty for two people. As I mentioned above, I downsized (alone) to 400+ square feet. Now, that's small! But I realize it's all relative.
Yeah, that's pretty small. Our spare BR is quite small and we tried setting it up with a King size bed as that's what we have in our master. We figured our guests deserved a King. BUT the room was so small with that bed you had go outside to change your mind! So a Queen works in there reasonably well. A tiny desk allows one of us a "get away" area WITH a door to shut out the TV noise. Works for us. YMMV
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:19 PM   #40
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Ah yes! 600SF apartment. Our last stent as tourists here in the Islands was actually in a 1BR condo for 5 weeks. We were doing our final test-run to see if we could "live" here (shopping, cooking, driving, parking, existing, etc.). We decided the "dividing line" was 2BR/2bath. Fortunately, we already owned our town-home but it was leased out. The longest we ever got to stay in it before was the 2 weeks we spent rehabbing it between sets of long-term tenants, thus the "final run through" in the 600SF apartment. Without a nice shaded lanai, DW was going nuts before the end of our stay. That told us exactly what kind of place we would need at some point in our future. The town home was certainly big enough, but the set up wasn't right - for DW. I was fine with it. SO, of course, we moved after a couple of years in the Islands - to a place DW could exist. SO far, no regrets after 10 years though YMMV.
600 SF? I'm not sure how I'd maneuver a 4x8 sheet of plywood onto my tablesaw in there.
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