nm

[brewer12345]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Dad worked in the Fulton Fish Market for 30 years (ya knowadda mean?), so I have a pretty good idea of what good quality seafood is.  Personally, I depend on the merchant.  There are very few fish stores I will patronize because I know I can't exect quality from most of them.  There is an excellent place near work, a decent place on the shore, and I will occasionally buy from the local Whole Foods (fish is decent, but not up to the standards of the place near work).

 

[Martha]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

I presented CTs positions on fresh vs. frozen to the lawyer in the next office (kind of like the step daughter in the spare room). This lawyer was on the cover of Field and Stream once. Before law, he was a guide in the Boundary Waters. He also regularly fishes in Alaska. So I think he is of similar fishing status as CT. For all I know, they might be acquainted with each other.

His opinion is that lean fish, like Halibut, Cod, walleye, etc. freeze well and if they are quick frozen and slowly thawed they taste as good as fresh. His opinion is that fatty fish, like salmon, are better fresh and sometimes don't freeze well at all.

When he goes fishing in Alaska he will bring back flash frozen/vacuum packed halibut.

FWISW

 

[Jarhead*]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

My 2c.

I used to LOVE salmon.  Nothing better than a nice grilled slab o' salmon with a glass of pinot noir.

After a while, I just didnt appreciate it anymore.  My wife still liked it, but I generally made it to suit her, then nibbled a little and ate more vegetables.

A few months ago we took gabe to visit one of my ex girlfriends and her new beau, and he had grilled up a piece of salmon.  Unbellievably good.  I ate three portions and was threatened with stick beating if I approached the fish again.  I asked where she got it...wild salmon from costco at about 50% more than the farm raised.

Then it occurred to me...I'd been getting wild salmon most of my life, but as farm raised became more prevalent, I started buying it.  Hell, it looked and smelled good and it was cheaper than the wild.  Next time I was at costco I bought a slab, cooked it, and devoured it.  Yummy.  The next time I was there I bought a chunk of the farm raised.  Yuck

TH:  I have about 175 lbs. of game in my freezer.
About 30 lbs. of Kohoe Salmon, 50 lbs. of Venison, 40 or 50 lbs. of trout, 15 or 20 lbs. of Steelhead, a couple of Pheasants.  All shot or caught within the last year and a half.  My wife uses that little gadget that compresses the air and seals them.

We've never had a bad meal from any of them, and I (regardless of what Cutthroat claims), would rather eat the cardboard that they come with than "farmed game".

 

[Sheryl]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

There are some who contend that the farming of salmon in BC has had tremendous negative effects on the Orca whale population.  I read the book by Alexandra Morton referenced in this article and was convinced by it.  She was/is a whale researcher who watched the whales' environment degrade as the farms moved into their areas.  Eventually the whales just stopped coming back.

http://tinyurl.com/8jd5x

 

[lazyday]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Anybody ask to smell the fish at the store? I know it's the best thing to do, but I can't bring myself to ask them to let me take a sniff.

I have. When I moved to the city I live in now, the fish I bought was terrible, even at expensive grocery stores. Sometimes smelled so bad, I thew it out without bothering to cook it. Getting a bag of ice with the fish for ride home didn't help.
Started asking to smell, and they almost never smelled good enough to buy, so I gave up on "fresh" fish.
Maybe fresh fish is better in the boutique/gourmet stores, but I won't pay that much.

Walmart has frozen fish at good prices.
Right now, they have both wild "product of China" and farmed salmon frozen, and the wild is cheaper. I find the farmed to be pretty good, and the wild to be disgusting.
I recall the farmed to be from Latin or South America (Chile?) glad to read they're supposedly less toxic.
A few years ago, IIRC, they only had wild, probably from another part of the world, and it tasted good.

 

[Nords]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

So, anyone up for a discussion of wild turkeys or free-range chickens?

 

[haha]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Anybody ask to smell the fish at the store?  I know it's the best thing to do, but I can't bring myself to ask them to let me take a sniff.

I do it.

It's my money, and usually quite a bit of it.

Ha

 

[ESRBob]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

The way you said that made me think of you eating it like almost immediately

My son showed me this picture in a different context today and we had a good laugh -- I highly recommend checking out these posters at thinkgeek.com -- the perfect holiday gift for anyone still stuck in cubicle land, or those of us trying to remember why we left.

I think my favorites are "Mistakes", "Mediocrity", "Incompetence" and "Consulting"


http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/posters/65bf/

 

[Brat]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

There are some who contend that the farming of salmon in BC has had tremendous negative effects on the Orca whale population.  ... She was/is a whale researcher who watched the whales' environment degrade as the farms moved into their areas.  Eventually the whales just stopped coming back. ...

No one can say if it was fish farming, or other sea conditions, that caused the change. Frankly I think it is a mixed bag.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

So, anyone up for a discussion of wild turkeys or free-range chickens?

Cooks magazine did a taste test of "heritage" turkeys recently, and free range chickens a while back. I just tried a fancy-dan (-tien) chicken a while back myself at 3x the cost.

Cooks found the heritage turkeys to be strong flavored and very inconsistent, even within the same brand/farm. Inferior to 'farmed' turkeys. They found very little advantage/difference to a free range organic blah blah chicken, and so did I.

I do like the free range/organic/flax fed eggs though. Brighter yellow yolks and a lot more flavor.

 

[pbrane]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

I recently found a farmer who raises "free range" chickens on a small scale and bought (2) 4 pounders and (2) 12 pounders. They seem to be a little bit on the chewy side compared to the mushy commercial ones from the store (but that could be the cook's fault ). The dark meat is also quite a bit darker. I had to drive 50 miles to his farm to get them, but they were killed just hours before and I got to see where they lived and ate etc. The farm was extremely funky and natural..pretty cool experience.

But the only reason I drove so far was because they were only 95 cents a lb. I wouldn't pay more than around $2 a lb for free-range chickies.........

pb

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

I recently found a farmer who raises "free range" chickens on a small scale and bought (2) 4 pounders and (2) 12 pounders. They seem to be a little bit on the chewy side compared to the mushy commercial ones from the store (but that could be the cook's fault  ). The dark meat is also quite a bit darker. I had to drive 50 miles to his farm to get them, but they were killed just hours before and I got to see where they lived and ate etc. The farm was extremely funky and natural..pretty cool experience.

But the only reason I drove so far was because they were only 95 cents a lb. I wouldn't pay more than around $2 a lb for free-range chickies.........

pb

Not being in C-T's class as a fisherman (have not fished for salmon in years), I have no opinion on the original topic. However, I do believe
that catfish is the most widespread farm raised fish in this country.
I catch more catfish than anything else by far, and truly can not tell the difference between those I catch and the farm raised variety. I do notice that
in the stores, fresh catfish goes for up to $5.00/lb. We have a fortune
in our freezer.

JG

 

[Brat]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

I catch more catfish than anything else by far, and truly can not tell the difference between those I catch and the farm raised variety.

It may be that there is little difference between the content of the fish feed and natural diet.

 

[Nords]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Cooks magazine did a taste test of "heritage" turkeys recently, and free range chickens a while back.

OK, if my sarcasm was so subtle that even TH treated it like a serious question, then that didn't work at all.

So lemme start over.

When I read the threads about the quality of meat, salmon, wine, beer, or other food articles (and I use the word "food" in its widest nutritive sense) I'm reminded of being at sea for three consecutive months with no resupply. Lettuce is edible after six weeks of careful refrigeration, with minor spoilage. Eggs last a couple months. I've pulled MILSPEC beef from the Korean War (at least it was labeled & tasted like beef!) out of 1980s freezers. I've drunk more dark liquids labeled "coffee" than world production would ever support, and there've been plenty of times when I haven't had anything to eat for 24 hours or even more.

To me, food is yummy and I'm omnivorous. Even the less-yummy stuff, like bugs & baluts, will delay death by malnutrition. Ever since those sea-duty days, whenever I shop for food I have a hard time getting excited over pedigree. Everybody should have food and no one should turn up their nose at its less-glamorous sources. I buy cheap but I'm too lazy to shoot my own deer or butcher my own hogs. I buy frozen because it stores for months. I buy fresh if it's on sale and if I'm cooking it soon, but if I cooked them side-by-side I doubt that I could taste the difference. Either way I'm cruising for second helpings & desserts and then rushing back to whatever activity had to be interrupted by refueling.

So I tend to shop by price and by ease of preparation. Everything after that seems to have little or no value to me. If I allocated everyone else's budgets to my dietary needs then I'd be donating at least a quarter of it to our local food kitchen.

OK, thanks for listening, just wanted to let you know that all this excitement over a few thousand calories seemed to be a little extreme, you may now resume the reciprocated diatribe debate.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

OK, if my sarcasm was so subtle that even TH treated it like a serious question, then that didn't work at all.

Ok, you be serious and I'll be rowbuck. Hey...maybe we should start a department store?

Your attempt was noted, but I thought I'd give you some return on your investment

I think in general the real thing isnt fresh vs farmed, free range vs mass market...its about tastes. I'm quite sure someone from 100 years ago would find our farmed/mass marketed products tasteless and uninteresting and very much miss the variability and strong flavors of the products of their day.

My personal experience with salmon was quite an epiphany, as I'd noted my declining interest in the product without associating that with a change from wild to farmed. I remember when Frank Purdue started rolling out his large cottony breasted chickens in new england and nobody liked them. "Tastes like mushy nothing" a lot of people said. A few years later, thats all you could find in stores.

If you havent tried it in a while, substitute a "country ham" from smithfield for the usual spiral sliced "city ham". After you're done drinking 3 gallons of water you'll wonder how people ever ate the dang things.

A permutation of CT's original point, minus the subjective taste portion, is that with the population growth, our food supply will continue to lean towards mass produced, genetically modified/engineered, plump, cottony, mild and whiter. We're conditioned to go for 'bigger' when many foods (especially fruits) only have a certain amount of flavor in them and bigger means blander.

 

[Martha]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

And so we eat more and get fat.

 

[bongo2]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

CT, if you're still reading this thread where do you get your fish, and how much do you pay? I'm also in MN, and last year I could get salmon for $4/lb, but this year it seems to be $9-10/lb. Is that what you're seeing as well? I get it from the supermarket, do you do the same, or do you go to some sort of fish market?

 

[plattj1]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Wow - what a thread!

This should be only my second or third post ever... but this topic has brought me out of lurkerville.

I live to fish. I have been a deck hand on a fishing boat. I have fished for salmon for years. I have killed and eaten more fish than I could ever count.

Cut-Throat is wrong.

The are more reasons than could ever be expressed in this thread, but consider this. The single largest magazine dedicated to this type of fishing is Salmon-Trout & Steelheader. They consistently publish fact filled articles on the problems with large scale fish farming in the ocean.

The ocean is the last open wilderness. I can buy a boat, drive out into the water almost anywhere I want to and enjoy myself. Large corporations are now talking about setting up "claims" on the ocean and using these areas exclusively for their own farms. Due to the profits involved I feel that someday this will happen. Just like we farm the land today.

As far as taste, I have fished Alaska, Oregon, California and Washington for Salmon.

Fresh is awesome.
Flash frozen is delicious.
Smoked is great!

Farmed is mushy and not as flavorful.

It reminds me of Sacramento River spawners. If you have never had a good piece of wild salmon you would think it was great, but it cannot compare to the real thing.

Trout is the same. Farm raised trout is nasty. I would rather eat McDonalds.

JP

 

[TromboneAl]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

So, anyone up for a discussion of wild turkeys or free-range chickens?

We roast a small chicken once a week. A year or two back we had two mass-produced (Foster Farms) chickens that tasted like liver (yes, I took it out first), and we switched to organic chickens.

But, in my latest extreme-tightwad mode, I went back to the cheaper ones. We've been eating .59/lb chicken for months now and it's every bit as good as the organic expensive ones (I have four in the freezer right now).

 

[plattj1]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

"Oh dude, if it were only so simple! I have known fishing experts in my life and you sir are no expert! - A deck ape on a fishing boat and a reader of SST - knows just about enough to be dangerous"

Wow - thanks. Let's discuss religon and politics sometime, with an attitude like yours I would expect it to be some kind of fun.

Love,

JP

 

[Danny]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

....and you sir are no expert! - A deck ape on a fishing boat and a reader of SST - knows just about enough to be dangerous.

I have spent over 30 weeks on Alaskan Rivers eating King Salmon, Coho, and Sockeye - All Fresh - So I know what I'm talking about. We would not think of eating a Pink Salmon - They save those for Dan Tien to spread on his toast (Yuck!)

That's Deming's Red Sockeye Wild Alaska Salmon, You Sweet Pompous Thing you. Man you can be pretty darn immoderate for a moderator.

For those of you who can't justify the expense of wild salmon fresh or frozen, or if its not available, the following is my humble receipe offering. Believe me there's more flavor in these cans than there is in the farm stuff I've eaten in the Twin Cities.

Take a lot of Miracle Whip (Light, for those of us on red wine medication), Djon mustard, a can of the Sockeye, get the toast going while you mix, layer it on thick and wet, and man you got some good eating! A good change from Tuna Salad.

You know you could have a lot better relationship with some folks Cutthroat if you didn't condescend and insult those that dare to disagree with you. You could read back on our posts and see how it got a little heated between us. I wasn't going to just take your crap, roll over and ask you to scratch my belly, after you in so many words told me how stupid and naive I was. :

 

[plattj1]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

You know you could have a lot better relationship with some folks  Cutthroat if you didn't condescend and insult those that dare to disagree with you. You could read back on our posts and see how it got a little heated between us. I wasn't going to just take your crap, roll over and ask you to scratch my belly, after you in so many words told me how stupid and naive I was.  :

I was going to suggest foregoing all the talk and just going straight to peeing for distance. I have relieved myself on well over 30 rivers in my years of fishing and consider myself to be quite the expert. I think I could take him.  8)

 

[Nords]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

That is because their diet is alwieves.

With the goal of improving my vocabulary, C-T, what the heck is an alwieve?

 

[justin]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Anyone figured out how to have an e-pissing (men only, sorry ladeez) contest yet? Maybe through videoconferencing? I think it would be a much more efficient and sensible way to resolve a number of disputes on this board.

 

[WhodaThunkit]

Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Anyone figured out how to have an e-pissing (men only, sorry ladeez) contest yet?  Maybe through videoconferencing?  I think it would be a much more efficient and sensible way to resolve a number of disputes on this board.   

Maybe the famous skunkworks could come up with something