Sheryl
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 1,463
Amen Sister!
Non retired spouse
- Thread starter theoldwizard
- Start date
Amen Sister!
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
LOL!
OK, I admit I am getting pretty far out here- but OP's situation speaks to me. And he is not getting much understanding- mostly just "what's wrong with you boy- you better shape up." I think that is quite one-sided, based on his reports. There is no reason to think he is misquoting, after all he is looking for help.
Although many women here have made their own way, I believe that it remains true that men and woman both attract one another with what they sit on.
Wallets in one case, and you-knows in the other.
Men and women both need respect and caring, probably more than anything. But getting those can be tricky absent those deep in our mid-brains universal attractors.
Ha
OK, I admit I am getting pretty far out here- but OP's situation speaks to me. And he is not getting much understanding- mostly just "what's wrong with you boy- you better shape up." I think that is quite one-sided, based on his reports. There is no reason to think he is misquoting, after all he is looking for help.
Although many women here have made their own way, I believe that it remains true that men and woman both attract one another with what they sit on.
Wallets in one case, and you-knows in the other.
Men and women both need respect and caring, probably more than anything. But getting those can be tricky absent those deep in our mid-brains universal attractors.
Ha
Ha, I think the OP is getting lots of understanding, along with some suggestions (OK, some are strongly worded, I admit). There are two main messages: (1) there is more going on here than a disagreement about chores and (2) if he wants anything to change, he is going to have to take the lead to - do more, talk more, or both along with calm unflappable patience.
This whole thread is very interesting!
Now Mom's grumpiness while Dad is retired & she isn't makes more sense!
Wizard, I would highly recommend you to read 'Five Languages of Love' (just Google it). It might put all of this in an entirely different perspective!
I suspect your wife might see 'chores' as a labour of love from you (if you don't do it she doesn't feel loved - at least our Mom is such, Sis & I helping out doesn't mean anything if Dad is seen watching TV or reading a newspaper close by!) That's why it's so important to her! ('Chores' is Dad's primary LL too, so as long as Mom still does some of the things, such as cooking on weekends & laundry etc, he's okay. But I know that if you generally don't cook, then you may get cranky when you have to cook 1x a week, cause you may forget where the right pots are, are not up-to-date with groceries etc. So I understand Mum's grumpiness on weekends too, and expectations of 'help' - she usually goes for more complicated things too.)
I suppose you expect kind words of praise and affirmation, since that is your primary language of feeling loved, and when she doesn't praise you you lose all joy to do it (at least I am such, and have always hated to do most things at home as Mom is hypercritical and very detail-oriented - an accountant, it's excellent for her job but we haven't been too happy about it at home!)
I especially laughed at the story how a husband 'Just didn't get it' but when the author told him that when he washes the laundry (insert whatever your wife wants you to do) his wife feels like he does in the most ecstatic intimate moment of sex, his eyes lit up & he yelled, 'Bring on the laundry!'
You might try to get your wife to read the book after you read it yourself, or read her some passages aloud. (Yes, there are examples of similar situations - not of RE, but of failure to appreciate and such.)
My parents did read it (I bought it to them), there were no miraculous over-night results to speak of - or maybe there were, I wasn't living with them at the time, but it did make a difference.
Dad cooks, Mom does laundry on weekends and buys groceries on her way from work, cleaning the house is shared. Dad still prefers doing stuff around the house and repairs. The dishes - and by that Mum means clean 'whole kitchen work area' including the sink - that depends (and has been subject of occasional quarrel and Mum's grumpiness if it all awaited her). Ideally, dishes are put in the dish-washer after lunch and washed in the evening, or next morning. My Granny has a thing about washing the dishes the same day too, must be a generational thing. (Sis & I are thoroughly unaffected.) It may depend on the foods and smells and type of kitchen too.
I am not a 'housekeeping' type, or 'naturally organized', so I found great help on these sites: FlyLady.net: Your personal online coach to help you gain control of your house and home (she even has tips on shining the sink! Though I'm not sure how environmentally friendly they are) and Get Organized - Organizing Tips and Ideas to help you get organized now. (a forum there too)
The main concept for less clutter is having assigned space for things (shelves/baskets/...) - and having routines helps too.
There are other sites, on being organized and menu-planning (there is even the concept of 'once-a-month or once-a-week cooking' (and eating from the fridge) though I'm not sure how healthy that is!)
But I like planning menus for a week in advance, so there's no stress on the day of cooking and figuring what's in the pantry.
Somewhere on these sites there's an idea that both husband and wife have a 'Darling, please...' list of 'to do's' and have assigned time when they both do something from each other's list (followed by something fun for both).
My Mom & Dad hate the idea of having 'to do' lists, but if asked the night before they may tell what they want done the next day or week. - But one must ask always, they don't volunteer this information, and Mum has sometimes been seen as expecting everyone to read her mind and know what & how she wants something done too. We sometimes joke about it. I tell her I wish I had the superpowers of telepathy to read her mind, but it's not working - not yet, at least!
Also, it is not enough if she just tells or shows you something! (Mom has a knack for pulling things out of ones hands and doing it herself - not very motivational, or a learning experience) I realized you have to insist on doing it yourself, under her supervision - like an apprentice (with a humble attitude & inquiring mind: 'How do you clean the sink so that it shines?' - let her show you first, and supervise you 2nd at least once when you do it on your own) to actually get the knack for it! It can be something really simple you'd never have thought of on your own! - Maybe you could ask to be her 'apprentice' once in a while, regarding certain things? Dad enjoyed having me as apprentice for painting the room! And I had to ask Mom to be her apprentice to do the laundry, several times!)
Word of caution: WEAR GLASSES if required (Dad & Granny don't want to and often the dishes are half-dirty, which is not nice)
You could also then ask your wife what she would like to have done (and write it down so you don't forget it) or show her a schedule you come up with (maybe after browsing the FlyLady and other sites), and ask her opinion or further suggestions. (Is she happy with once-a-week cleaning like my Mom, or does she want the kitchen swept every day? If it seems too much for you, negotiate - or delegate, as has been suggested.)
In the morning, I am very cranky before breakfast, so asking me anything before I ate is a no-go! After breakfast is better, unless when I'm in a hurry! A friend also wants total peace in the morning. And I need to be left alone when I'm hungry (eg after returning home) or I get cranky.
So, could you consult the day before at least? (If you plan weekly and check things weekly, and keep track of things yourself, this may get easier anyway! You could plan menus together weekly!)
Sorry if I gave too many suggestions - hope some of them will spark off inspiration for a better co-existance together!
Well, good luck!
Now Mom's grumpiness while Dad is retired & she isn't makes more sense!
Wizard, I would highly recommend you to read 'Five Languages of Love' (just Google it). It might put all of this in an entirely different perspective!
I suspect your wife might see 'chores' as a labour of love from you (if you don't do it she doesn't feel loved - at least our Mom is such, Sis & I helping out doesn't mean anything if Dad is seen watching TV or reading a newspaper close by!) That's why it's so important to her! ('Chores' is Dad's primary LL too, so as long as Mom still does some of the things, such as cooking on weekends & laundry etc, he's okay. But I know that if you generally don't cook, then you may get cranky when you have to cook 1x a week, cause you may forget where the right pots are, are not up-to-date with groceries etc. So I understand Mum's grumpiness on weekends too, and expectations of 'help' - she usually goes for more complicated things too.)
I suppose you expect kind words of praise and affirmation, since that is your primary language of feeling loved, and when she doesn't praise you you lose all joy to do it (at least I am such, and have always hated to do most things at home as Mom is hypercritical and very detail-oriented - an accountant, it's excellent for her job but we haven't been too happy about it at home!)
I especially laughed at the story how a husband 'Just didn't get it' but when the author told him that when he washes the laundry (insert whatever your wife wants you to do) his wife feels like he does in the most ecstatic intimate moment of sex, his eyes lit up & he yelled, 'Bring on the laundry!'
You might try to get your wife to read the book after you read it yourself, or read her some passages aloud. (Yes, there are examples of similar situations - not of RE, but of failure to appreciate and such.)
My parents did read it (I bought it to them), there were no miraculous over-night results to speak of - or maybe there were, I wasn't living with them at the time, but it did make a difference.
Dad cooks, Mom does laundry on weekends and buys groceries on her way from work, cleaning the house is shared. Dad still prefers doing stuff around the house and repairs. The dishes - and by that Mum means clean 'whole kitchen work area' including the sink - that depends (and has been subject of occasional quarrel and Mum's grumpiness if it all awaited her). Ideally, dishes are put in the dish-washer after lunch and washed in the evening, or next morning. My Granny has a thing about washing the dishes the same day too, must be a generational thing. (Sis & I are thoroughly unaffected.) It may depend on the foods and smells and type of kitchen too.
I am not a 'housekeeping' type, or 'naturally organized', so I found great help on these sites: FlyLady.net: Your personal online coach to help you gain control of your house and home (she even has tips on shining the sink! Though I'm not sure how environmentally friendly they are) and Get Organized - Organizing Tips and Ideas to help you get organized now. (a forum there too)
The main concept for less clutter is having assigned space for things (shelves/baskets/...) - and having routines helps too.
There are other sites, on being organized and menu-planning (there is even the concept of 'once-a-month or once-a-week cooking' (and eating from the fridge) though I'm not sure how healthy that is!)
But I like planning menus for a week in advance, so there's no stress on the day of cooking and figuring what's in the pantry.
Somewhere on these sites there's an idea that both husband and wife have a 'Darling, please...' list of 'to do's' and have assigned time when they both do something from each other's list (followed by something fun for both).
My Mom & Dad hate the idea of having 'to do' lists, but if asked the night before they may tell what they want done the next day or week. - But one must ask always, they don't volunteer this information, and Mum has sometimes been seen as expecting everyone to read her mind and know what & how she wants something done too. We sometimes joke about it. I tell her I wish I had the superpowers of telepathy to read her mind, but it's not working - not yet, at least!
Also, it is not enough if she just tells or shows you something! (Mom has a knack for pulling things out of ones hands and doing it herself - not very motivational, or a learning experience) I realized you have to insist on doing it yourself, under her supervision - like an apprentice (with a humble attitude & inquiring mind: 'How do you clean the sink so that it shines?' - let her show you first, and supervise you 2nd at least once when you do it on your own) to actually get the knack for it! It can be something really simple you'd never have thought of on your own! - Maybe you could ask to be her 'apprentice' once in a while, regarding certain things? Dad enjoyed having me as apprentice for painting the room! And I had to ask Mom to be her apprentice to do the laundry, several times!)
Word of caution: WEAR GLASSES if required (Dad & Granny don't want to and often the dishes are half-dirty, which is not nice)
You could also then ask your wife what she would like to have done (and write it down so you don't forget it) or show her a schedule you come up with (maybe after browsing the FlyLady and other sites), and ask her opinion or further suggestions. (Is she happy with once-a-week cleaning like my Mom, or does she want the kitchen swept every day? If it seems too much for you, negotiate - or delegate, as has been suggested.)
In the morning, I am very cranky before breakfast, so asking me anything before I ate is a no-go! After breakfast is better, unless when I'm in a hurry! A friend also wants total peace in the morning. And I need to be left alone when I'm hungry (eg after returning home) or I get cranky.
So, could you consult the day before at least? (If you plan weekly and check things weekly, and keep track of things yourself, this may get easier anyway! You could plan menus together weekly!)
Sorry if I gave too many suggestions - hope some of them will spark off inspiration for a better co-existance together!
Well, good luck!
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I'm glad someone mentioned this book. It's fabulous! It's the one book I wish I had read when my marraige was going downhill. But I'm convinced that the ideas could improve any male-female relationship.
And about needing men for companionship and caring. Hmmm. A man who was great company and wonderful in bed would be my first choice. My second choice would be a man who was wonderful in bed and good company. I don't have a third choice.
LeatherneckPA
Recycles dryer sheets
Wizard - you are reminding me of the joke e-mail about the guy who was being "so considerate" by "allowing" his wife more time to get the chores done. Died with a 50" golf club up his butt. All female jury acquitted wife, believed her story that he accidentally "sat" on the club.
OK, y'all are officially scaring the bejeebers out of me now!! Cindy is a fanatical housecleaner. My family started calling her Felix (as in Unger, The Odd Couple) over 20 years ago. I have often told her that I don't clean for her because no matter what I do it's not good enough for her. And no, I am NOT Oscar Madison.
And she's a fantastic list maker. Hooo boy, can that lady make lists!!! My "honey-do" lists for my two days off are usually 10-12 items long and I can generally only do about half of them. Her's are even longer, to the point of being ridiculous. Except she takes them seriously and then when she doesn't finish it on the weekend she gets depressed for like two days after and doesn't do anything.
So I'm thinking that if I'm home in ER and she's still working at the bank my "honey-do" lists are liable to grow exponentially. Hmmmmm, maybe I should buy stock in Post-It notes?
OK, y'all are officially scaring the bejeebers out of me now!! Cindy is a fanatical housecleaner. My family started calling her Felix (as in Unger, The Odd Couple) over 20 years ago. I have often told her that I don't clean for her because no matter what I do it's not good enough for her. And no, I am NOT Oscar Madison.
And she's a fantastic list maker. Hooo boy, can that lady make lists!!! My "honey-do" lists for my two days off are usually 10-12 items long and I can generally only do about half of them. Her's are even longer, to the point of being ridiculous. Except she takes them seriously and then when she doesn't finish it on the weekend she gets depressed for like two days after and doesn't do anything.
So I'm thinking that if I'm home in ER and she's still working at the bank my "honey-do" lists are liable to grow exponentially. Hmmmmm, maybe I should buy stock in Post-It notes?
LeatherneckPA
Recycles dryer sheets
Oldbabe I'd like to volunteer for the job. don't know what you consider wonderful in bed, but I'm open to suggestions and very quick learner.
When I first retired there was an adjustment period. My wife and I were getting in each other's way because she was not used to having me at home. But we have worked on it and it is getting better and better each day.
I have learned to let some of the NAGGING go. There is good NAGGING and bad NAGGING. I look at GOOD NAGGING as a positive. As for BAD NAGGING I use selective hearing and thus it cuts down greatly on the disagreements.
But overall I look at our time together whether it is GOOD or BAD as a BLESSING.
I am of the thought that there might not be too many women that would put up with a slightly fat grumpy old man (age 49 but on some days I feel as though I am 66).
GOD BLESS AMERICA
I have learned to let some of the NAGGING go. There is good NAGGING and bad NAGGING. I look at GOOD NAGGING as a positive. As for BAD NAGGING I use selective hearing and thus it cuts down greatly on the disagreements.
But overall I look at our time together whether it is GOOD or BAD as a BLESSING.
I am of the thought that there might not be too many women that would put up with a slightly fat grumpy old man (age 49 but on some days I feel as though I am 66).GOD BLESS AMERICA
toofrugalformycat
Full time employment: Posting here.
My DH and I were the exact same situation as you and your DW for a few years. We are now both ERed.
I agree with everyone's suggestions that you need to have a talk with your DW and discuss who will do what, and when.
Make an appointment with your spouse ahead of time, for a time when you are both relaxed (like after a nice dinner out or a pleasant walk).
Also, your wife may need to write out instructions for how to do particular chores. She may be surprised that it's not obvious to you how things are done. If you disagree with the instructions, that's cause for another appointment for a scheduled discussion (and another nice dinner out).
In my experience there will be lots of adjusting going on, but this can be a good thing if you anticipate that there will be misunderstandings and keep making those appointments to talk with each other. You have leisure time, she doesn't, so you need to bend more, IMHO.
She's still adding to the next egg and that will benefit both of you in future.
I agree with everyone's suggestions that you need to have a talk with your DW and discuss who will do what, and when.
Make an appointment with your spouse ahead of time, for a time when you are both relaxed (like after a nice dinner out or a pleasant walk).
Also, your wife may need to write out instructions for how to do particular chores. She may be surprised that it's not obvious to you how things are done. If you disagree with the instructions, that's cause for another appointment for a scheduled discussion (and another nice dinner out).
In my experience there will be lots of adjusting going on, but this can be a good thing if you anticipate that there will be misunderstandings and keep making those appointments to talk with each other. You have leisure time, she doesn't, so you need to bend more, IMHO.
She's still adding to the next egg and that will benefit both of you in future.
LeatherneckPA
Recycles dryer sheets
AMEN Wags!!! If more folks realized how good they actually have, and that they themselves are not necessarily a bargain, there'd probably be a lot fewer divorces. (Married to a saintly woman for 26 years now, and hoping to make it another 35.)I am of the thought that there might not be too many women that would put up with a slightly fat grumpy old man
citrine
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 984
I agree with you Oldbabe....I'd rather have a man that was great company and wonderful in bed! Laundry and chores are really an after thought....they can be done as a team or outsourced as need be.
I still think that she is grumpy that you get to retire and she has to work.....she should just retire.....and then you both can hire a maid and frolick about!
That is what I would do
I still think that she is grumpy that you get to retire and she has to work.....she should just retire.....and then you both can hire a maid and frolick about!
That is what I would do
theoldwizard
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- May 20, 2007
- Messages
- 107
Update
Well a week or so has gone by. I have been doing most of the cooking (DW cooked once or twice). Not always up to her standards, but she is eating it (and, no, I'm not trying to screw up !) She has helped with meal planning which is where I am most challenged.
I have also done the dishes most of the time. DW did them once because "I made the mess" and another time because I think she thought the sink and countertop "needed a womens touch". Sigh.
Well a week or so has gone by. I have been doing most of the cooking (DW cooked once or twice). Not always up to her standards, but she is eating it (and, no, I'm not trying to screw up !) She has helped with meal planning which is where I am most challenged.
I have also done the dishes most of the time. DW did them once because "I made the mess" and another time because I think she thought the sink and countertop "needed a womens touch". Sigh.
