Pilot's license question

[SecondCor521]

I'm 50 and may start trying to clean up some regrets.

When I was a teenager I got a fair way along the way to getting my private pilot's license (just single engine VFR). I solo'ed, had maybe 50 hours total, including several solo and cross country solo hours. I never took the written and never did the check ride.

Although I would have no practical use for the license, I'm considering going back and finishing just, well, to finish.

Anyway, I have no idea where my log book is...wherever it is it is now over 30 years old. It might be in a box in the garage, or my ex-wife may have tossed it at some point (she used to do that kind of thing).

I'd hate to start over on accumulating those hours, because it would be expensive and since I was well trained I still remember a lot of the skills from way back when. But I don't know if or how to claim credit for those old hours.

Anyone know how that would work in this kind of situation?

 

[Bamaman]

It will be impossible to document your past flying history without logs. But you can apply for a Sport Pilot's License with approximately half the hours logged than what it takes to get the basic Pilot's License.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Sport_pilot

When I took my pilot training in 1979, it took 40 hours or so to get a license. But as a type II diabetic today, I wouldn't be able to keep my license. The Sport License would allow me to fly on a limited basis today.

 

[Tiger8693]

When I took my pilot training in 1979, it took 40 hours or so to get a license. But as a type II diabetic today, I wouldn't be able to keep my license. The Sport License would allow me to fly on a limited basis today.

Not 100% accurate. From the FAA.Gov website, if you are Type 2 and on medication (Metformin) after you have taken for a minimum of 14 days, (other meds - 60 days) your AME can determine you as stabilized and issue 3rd Class certificate. If not on medication, fasting Glucose less than 126 avg, and or a1c less 1.65, AME can issue. There is a lot of information, but this is the gist of it.

As for using your 30 years ago training, I don't think any reputable CFI will use that. You might move more quickly through the training, and legally have the minimum hours faster, but that's about it.

Personally, if I haven't flown in month(s), never mind years, I don't fly without a recent pilot or better yet CFI with me, until I feel "recent" again.

Just my $0.02

 

[Bamaman]

Not 100% accurate. From the FAA.Gov website, if you are Type 2 and on medication (Metformin) after you have taken for a minimum of 14 days, (other meds - 60 days) your AME can determine you as stabilized and issue 3rd Class certificate. If not on medication, fasting Glucose less than 126 avg, and or a1c less 1.65, AME can issue. There is a lot of information, but this is the gist of it.

As for using your 30 years ago training, I don't think any reputable CFI will use that. You might move more quickly through the training, and legally have the minimum hours faster, but that's about it.

Personally, if I haven't flown in month(s), never mind years, I don't fly without a recent pilot or better yet CFI with me, until I feel "recent" again.

I'm not looking to fly again. I just remember the day my next door neighbor, a DC10 captain, had to report he was diabetic. The rest of his career was spent working pilot training running simulators. Not flying was tough for an ex-Phantom pilot.

 

[ncbill]

Flight lessons ~$200/hour here with an instructor.

PPL will allow you to fly VFR in a non-turbo single-engine plane, figure about 2x as fast as you can drive (if you were thinking about renting for travel)

Cheapest plane at local flight school here is ~$100/hour to rent.

I paid a lot of money for flight lessons for the youngest while they were in high school (over 100 hours) & they still didn't finish, though they should this summer (taking practice exams for the written)

It's expensive enough that I've told them anything past the PPL they'll need to pay for themselves,

Or get it from Uncle Sam.

I can see both my kids ending up helicopter pilots via that route (the oldest who just graduated & commissioned has been assigned to flight school)

 

[samclem]

I'm not sure how you could get credit for the time you've flown without your logbooks. Perhaps you could ask an instructor or the FBO you are planning to go to, maybe this comes up a lot.


Regardless, if it has been three decades since you've flown, you'll be plenty rusty and will need quite a few hours to get proficient again. Some tips on how to get your ticket quickly (which may be old news to you). It is entirely possible and reasonable to be done at 50 hours or less.

1) Take it seriously--like a job. Show up for each lesson having done the required reading AND knowing the material. Use a desktop computer sim or just a chair and your chart/checklist/inflight guide to "chair fly" the stuff you'll do (to include radio calls, etc). I'd usually have a question or two i wanted to get clarified with my instructor. If you show up to the flight room and ask "what are we going to do today?," you've set the expectations of your instructor ("this guy's not serious about getting value from every minute we spend together") and it will show in his attitude. Don't leave the FBO without a thorough debriefing of the flying time and some things to work on at home.
2) Get good continuity. Start your lessons when your finances, other commitments, your instructor's schedule, and the weather will let you fly a lot--ideally two or three times per week. That's the best way to reinforce what you've learned and make progress. Flying once per week or less is a recipe for a lot of required flight time and an expensive PPL.


I finished in 48 hours, but I had some 25+ year old USAF flight time. Other students flying with the same instructor were at 90+ hours and still weren't close to being done. They showed up to fly, learned what they could while in the air, then went home and didn't think about it until their next lesson. In all these cases they either had a lot of money of their own (successful businessmen) or someone else was paying for their lessons with no apparent limit on the dough. Other scrappy "kids" applied themselves, took every opportunity to learn from others, did self-study to pass their written tests (AND really know the material/rules), and they also finished in less than 50 hours despite having no previous flying experience.

 

[OldShooter]

I'm 50 and may start trying to clean up some regrets. ...

Good for you! IMO you are not going to get credit for your hours, however. Long shot: if you can find your old instructor and he can find you in his logbook that might work. Your check ride pilot is the one to ask, not your instructor.

I tell people wanting to learn to fly that there are two options: (1) Take the training, pass the test, and savor the sense of satisfaction. or (2) keep flying with the understanding that maintaining proficiency is not three landings in 90 days. If the latter, consider joining a local flying club. That will reduce the cost of your training.

First, make sure you can pass a third class medical. Don't visit the AME just yet, look online for any show stoppers in medical history or medications. The AME manual can be downloaded and text searched. If you're OK for the third class, then see the AME. If you can't get the third class, then look into options like Sport Pilot.

Once you have your medical situation decided then just sign up and start flying. You'll learn for yourself how much rust there is and see the massive changes in airspace rules and in navigation tools. Remember that your goal is to be proficient and safe. It is not to finish in X hours.

Do it!

 

[Souschef]

Dear Second,
One long shot is to see if you can contact the instructor you had. He would have entered your training in his logbook.
Go for it! I got back flying at 69, and really enjoyed it. My favorite quite is:
A mile of highway will take you a mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere

 

[samclem]

First, make sure you can pass a third class medical. Don't visit the AME just yet, look online for any show stoppers in medical history or medications. The AME manual can be downloaded and text searched. If you're OK for the third class, then see the AME. If you can't get the third class, then look into options like Sport Pilot.

I'll reinforce the need for caution here. If you go to an AME and something turns up that he/she believes is important, you are in deep trouble. Welcome to the FAA hell that is known as "special issuance."

After you get the Class 3 (at least) FAA medical certificate, under a relatively new program ("BasicMed") your regular doctor can conduct future exams to keep you qualified to fly (with some restrictions). Do some research on "BasicMed" if you are interested. EAA's page on BasicMed. FAA's page on BasicMed. FAA Advisory Circular on Basic Med


As Old Shooter says, if you think you might have trouble with that first FAA medical exam conducted by an AME, then a Sport Pilot certificate might be what you want instead of a PPL.

 

[Cessna152]

Boise? There is a lot of beautiful scenery within easy flying distance of there. And a fair number of public use backcountry airstrips. Sure, you can add the license (“certificate” for the anal) to check off an item on your bucket list, but it represents a lot more potential for enjoyment.

I agree with those that say misplacing your logbook isn’t losing much. Just enjoy the extra hours you’ll be flying when you happen to have a CFI or examiner along as a passenger.

With regard to a third class medical - if in doubt, request a “consultation” rather than a medical exam with an AME. It would be an exam and problems that are found are not reported to the FAA, which allows more options to address them. Once a potentially grounding condition is reported to the FAA during a regular exam you are in the clutches of FAA Aeromedical, which is not a pleasant place to be (been there, done that.)

Light sport or (powered) gliders are alternatives if there are places nearby you can rent such aircraft.

Ultralights - good to go regardless of health and no training at all required....

 

[SecondCor521]

Thanks all for the replies. I will digest them and review them further.

Since the tangent of health was brought up, I am fairly certain I would have no problems whatsoever. Other than being nearsighted (which I was when I was training originally, and since my Dad was a CFI and IFR/multi-engine rated and gave me some of my training, I can't imagine that being a problem) and perhaps 20 pounds overweight, I'm perfectly healthy. But maybe I'm naive, so I'll keep the warnings and comments in this area in mind as well.

Thanks all!

 

[Tiger8693]

Sounds like you are good to go! I never had any issues with 3rd class medical - just a note that says i need readers.

+1 (again) to proficiency not being the minimums. I just never felt proficient enough for solo or non-pilot occupants unless I had been flying several times a month.

Have fun!

 

[DatumPoint5]

One way I used to gain, many, many hours was to sign up with a local Civill Air Patrol group. Most groups have at least one and sometimes several airplanes. They are funded by the USAF and a variety of federal agencies (such as the DEA, FBI, etc, etc) The hours are "free" when you are flying a sortie related to anything the Feds are requesting. I used to log hours related to FAA practice search and rescue sorties. I did sorties for the DEA where I had a "spotter" on board and we circled looking for "pot farms". The list of reasons, and the agencies could fill several pages of text on this post, but, I will leave it to say I don't think I spent more than a hundred dollars over the period of time I needed to get my "first fifty". I now have several hundred hours and most are due to the Feds, Civil Air Patrol, and/or just flying other people's airplanes when they need someone to accompany them somewhere while they flew a second plane headed somewhere. Also, I have flown people to places for medical treatment, corpses that needed to be relocated, and many, many more "free flying" stories. It is the perfect environment. In the end, they need your time as much as you need to "build time"!!!!!!

 

[OldShooter]

... local Civil Air Patrol group. ...

This can work, but it is not without drawbacks. The bureaucratic BS is absolutely incredible. After many years as a Mission Pilot and Air Ops Branch Director I finally quit in disgust last year when a new boatload of BS was dumped on us.

That said, if you can stomach the environment and have 100+ hours you can get checked out and (IRRC) at 200 hours you can take the MP checkride. You cannot, however, earn a Private rating in CAP.

 

[rk911]

I'm 50 and may start trying to clean up some regrets.

When I was a teenager I got a fair way along the way to getting my private pilot's license (just single engine VFR). I solo'ed, had maybe 50 hours total, including several solo and cross country solo hours. I never took the written and never did the check ride.

Although I would have no practical use for the license, I'm considering going back and finishing just, well, to finish.

Anyway, I have no idea where my log book is...wherever it is it is now over 30 years old. It might be in a box in the garage, or my ex-wife may have tossed it at some point (she used to do that kind of thing).

I'd hate to start over on accumulating those hours, because it would be expensive and since I was well trained I still remember a lot of the skills from way back when. But I don't know if or how to claim credit for those old hours.

Anyone know how that would work in this kind of situation?

i had roughly 20-hrs logged when i was forced to stop lessons back in 1982. fast forward to 2012 (age 62) when i climbed back aboard. i had my logbook but functionally the 20-hrs did not count. the intervening gap was just too large so i started over but both my CFI and I were surprised how quickly I caught up.

I know of no way to count hours you cannot document other than to contact your old CFI...if alive...or school to see if they can provide them to you.

blue skies to you!

 

[rk911]

It will be impossible to document your past flying history without logs. But you can apply for a Sport Pilot's License with approximately half the hours logged than what it takes to get the basic Pilot's License.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Sport_pilot

When I took my pilot training in 1979, it took 40 hours or so to get a license. But as a type II diabetic today, I wouldn't be able to keep my license. The Sport License would allow me to fly on a limited basis today.

Type II’s can get a 3rd class medical but there are hoops. once obtained you can renew thru the new Basic Med rules. but you’re correct, the Sport Certificate requires less training...no night flying or instrument-only training. and rumor has it the FAA will soon relax some SPL restrictions regarding the max take-off weight of light sport. to the OP...keep in mind that if you fail the 3rd class medical you can’t qualify for the SPL.

 

[Koolau]

I think it would be worth looking for your log book. Look at it as a time to get rid of some stuff. At least then you would know if you have it or not. I don't know where mine is either. I DO know that I didn't pitch it. I'm guessing I could lay my hands on it in an hour or less. YMMV

 

[SecondCor521]

I think it would be worth looking for your log book. Look at it as a time to get rid of some stuff. At least then you would know if you have it or not. I don't know where mine is either. I DO know that I didn't pitch it. I'm guessing I could lay my hands on it in an hour or less. YMMV

Yep, I probably will. If I have it, I know the most likely places it will be (boxes in the garage).

 

[Lakewood90712]

When you find your logbook, and I believe you will, in a few months from now you can be known at the FBO as " The old guy with almost a hundred hours, and still no checkride "

If you have the disposable $ , go for it. Try to find a not so young CFI Someone enjoys the occupation, not just building commercial time to get to the commuter airlines.

PS if you do decide to do it, try to fly 8 + hours a week. If you can find your old CFI, you can re create your log book from his / her logbook. IIRC , even your solo flights will be documented in your flight instructors log book.

 

[ncbill]

Don't forget the insurance...I'm paying ~$1100/year for my student pilot, $1 million liability/$100,000 airframe coverage.

Your home/auto/umbrella provide no coverage for aircraft operation.

 

[Souschef]

Don't forget the insurance...I'm paying ~$1100/year for my student pilot, $1 million liability/$100,000 airframe coverage.

Your home/auto/umbrella provide no coverage for aircraft operation.

That sounds high.Check with AOPA or Avemco

 

[samclem]

That sounds high.Check with AOPA or Avemco

When I shopped Avemco their quote was quite high. I went to my local agent and she has gotten me good rates with AIG.

As a retiree flying for fun and owning a plane, things are a bit different. My coverage is liability (about like ncbill's limits) and $30k for hull insurance on my little plane. The premium for the liability portion is about $450 annually, the premium for the hull coverage is about $1200 annually. I'm going to drop the hull coverage next year, I should self-insure for that. First, Ithink it vastly overstates the risk of big expenses. Second, if I do crumple the little plane into a ball, I'd either dig deep into my pocket, or give up the hobby. It's not like having the house burn down. But, I can't forego the liability coverage-- my exposure is too high and, anyway, my airport requires it for anyone based there.

 

[Souschef]

Sorry, I did not realize you owned a plane. That puts a whole different light on things. I rent, so all I need is renter's insurance

 

[Cessna152]

Don't forget the insurance...I'm paying ~$1100/year for my student pilot, $1 million liability/$100,000 airframe coverage.

Your home/auto/umbrella provide no coverage for aircraft operation.

Good point. Insurance is not required by law, but FBO’s generally require it of renters and lenders generally require it on loans for aircraft purchases. My instructor pointed put that none of the aircraft I’d be renting had a hull value above $50,000 so no point wasting money on coverage above that.

 

[Crabby Mike]

Ok pilots, this thread has regenerated my interest in restarting flying in some way. I actually found my PP license (from 1979, last flew in 1980) and logbook. Set up an online account at FAA Airmen Services and updated my address (a bit overdue ). Researched flight schools near me, and have a dilemma. Looks like my best choices are a Part 141 Cessna Pilot Center an hour from home, or a school that specializes in Sport and Recreational pilot training an hour and a half away. The travel time isn't a big factor (I'm retired after all), but could get to be a pain. The bigger question is what would serve me better as I go along. Since I already have my license (though of course I need a LOT of refreshing), would I be better off sticking with the Cessnas I'm familiar with, or effectively "step down" to LSAs, which I could presumably fly with somewhat less regulation, though also more restrictions. Any thoughts about pros and cons I should consider?