Retirement afloat

Hi Dory,
Enjoying all the information you're sharing with others. A while back you talked about the cost of "Dory" initially and maintenance.
Curious about the resale value of a boat after one has lived in it for a year or two and taken it on extended cruises like down the ICW.
When we sell our home to buy a boat I want to decide whether to pay cash or finance. Much depends on the resale value so we have money to buy another home once our boating days are over. Although I realize the tax implications of writing off interest may also be helpful.
Any advice?

[dory36]

The used boat market is glutted, and as a result, new boats see a tremendous depreciation in the first years.

We bought an older boat, already well past it's depreciation curve.

For resale values, I'd say the only issue is that you're selling a boat that is x years older than it was when you bought it.

Generally, using the boat for this sort of boating will not have any impact on the value -- or it might very slightly increase it. Boats that sit for 330 days a year deteriorate more than boats being used. Engine hours added to a boat used for cruising such as we do are not significant -- adding an average of 200-400 hours a year is not a factor when the engines typically last 10,000 - 20,000 hours. (In fact, regular usage is better on these engines than sitting unused.)

On the other hand, unless you buy a boat that has already been used for full time cruising, you'll likely spend a good bit to add the things that make the boat a home, rather than a weekend plaything. Just a simple example -- we upgraded the plumbing with a waste treatment unit. This and similar costs are hard to recover, just as a trash compactor in your home on land may be worth less to a home buyer than it was to you..

Because of the glut, reselling any boat will result in either a long "for sale" period to get a fair price, or a quicker sale at a "fire sale" price. We're expecting a 6-12 month "for sale" period when we try to sell [i]Dory[/] in a few years, and expect we'll get a price of something like 80% of our purchase price plus about 33% of the cost of significant improvements and additions.

Dory36

[haha]

Dory,

Thanks very much for your complete answer to my questions about the "nuts and bolts" of cruising, Myrtle Beach, etc. I had a great time at the Strand on Myrtle Beach a while back, and the idea of doing that all summer, plus having a quiet place to sleep where at least I would be sober is appealing.

I hope you will keep up the posting about day to day life, and the details of cruising. For a long time I "planned" to retire on a sailboat, but as I got more experienced, I realized that blue water cruising is a little too hairy for my tastes. Bad enough to be out in Puget Sound on a winter day. But a displacement type power cruiser, in warm, protected waters- that would be a whole other deal.

I spend about a third of my food budget on fish. Seems to me that I could pretty well send that toward zero, and entertain myself at the same time. I definitely want to seriously consider this idea.

Mikey

[haha]

Bill,

I read your evaluation of Belgoes Fuel Polishing Filter system. Are you still using that filter? Do you also use their bypass oil filter? It sounds like you have a very Skookum setup.

Years ago I drove a gas engine Volvo, and used a similar bypass oil filter, in that it used a throwaway paper filter, in this case toilet paper. I drove the car 250,000 thousand miles, rebuilt the engine and drove it another 75,000- then sold it for more than I had paid new. When I took the head for planing and the block for boring, the machinist told me he had never seen a cleaner engine with anywhere close to the mileage.

What make and displacement are your engines?

I hope you are finally underway on your westward passage. Later I will check the gps page to see what it shows.

Cya,

Mike

[dory36]

I have made a number of plumbing modifications to the original design, but am still using the system. Belgoes is the dealer; Gulf Coast Filters is the manufacturer. The oil filters use the toilet paper, and the fuel filter uses paper towels.

Not sure of the displacement; the engines (2) are Ford Lehman 120hp diesels.

I'll be updating the website tonight on the route -- but we've just changed our itinerary due to prolonged weather delays. We're headed back to the east coast, departing in about an hour, thus the short reply here.

Dory36

[haha]

Bill,

Thanks for the info. For sure a little water in the fuel which might be expensive on land, could be a disaster at sea.

In general, do you find that the cruising people you meet are careful and pro-active as to mechanical maintenance? I can envision that what seemed to be a good buy on a used boat could turn very expensive; some things are just hard to catch.

I read a survey report on a small commercial trawler that the State of Alaska had come to own through some sort of default by the owners. In a 13 page report, the only thing they said about the engine was that it appeared clean-they hadn't attempted to start it because the batteries were dead!!

Hope you are doing well as you progress south.

Mike

[dory36]

There is a lot of variation in how much people will check maintenance, but cruisers -- those living and traveling full time on their boats -- tend to be somewhat more aware of what is happening.

I don't think this is much more than the results of breakdowns and owner repairs. Most cruisers learn to fix their own stuff, as breakdowns seldom happen at a repair facility, and early retirement and cruising are incompatible with hiring mechanics at every stop. The owner of a recreational boat will spend only a dozen or so weekends a year on the boat, and will usually have it at the marina every night.

So the cruiser learns what tends to break, and watches those things and other things with similar characteristics.

In buying a boat, a qualified surveyor (boat talk for inspector) can usually identify problem areas. Those inspections cost $500 to $1500 for a typical cruising sized boat, but you have to get it anyway to get insurance coverage, so getting it done before the purchase makes for a lot of peace of mind!

Dory36

PS: This discussion has crept off the topic of retirement afloat. I'm glad to continue the discussion, but those looking for retirement afloat issues might not find these topics so interesting. How about starting any new thread on this topic in a new topic in "other"?

[haha]

PS: This discussion has crept off the topic of retirement afloat. I'm glad to continue the discussion, but those looking for retirement afloat issues might not find these topics so interesting. How about starting any new thread on this topic in a new topic in "other"?[/quote]

Sure that sounds fine. I don't exactly know what to call it-Nuts and Bolts of Living Afloat? I had thought that issues of producing income belong on one of the many topics devoted to that concern, and issues of spending that income on the lifestyle pages, like this one, Retirement Afloat.

If one lives in an apartment, he pretty pretty well knows what he is going to spend on domicile. If he purchases and lives on a boat I can't escape thinking that the variance might be a bit higher.

Mike

[yakers]

Do I Really Need A Boat?

My wife & I recently returned from a trip to the South Pacific specifically Tahiti, Moorea, Rarotonga and Fiji. (We are not rich; the trip came from 4 years of saving to celebrate my wifes surviving major surgery.) In each place we would see yaghties; We do not know their national origin, length of stay or financial resources but it hits somewhere in the brain how nice it would be to have a movable home one could have in Lahina, Hawaii; Tahiti; New Zealand; Australia; much of the US, Europe and a hell of a lot of places. It must be the same brain place that makes a castle, a farm, classic Victorian home or other places where the housing looks charming the environment is beautiful and the life looks good.
The problem is I do not know much about boats and sailing. And we feel more called to distant adventure than open water sailing. *My wife & I are active kayakers and that is most of our on water exposure.
So the question: Do I Need a Boat?

Upsides:
1. * * *Freedom to move yet the ability to stay for extended periods in desirable locations.
2. * * *No hotel rental.
3. * * *No airfare. (There would still be some flying for family contact and emergencies.)
4. * * *Have our own stuff with us.
5. * * *Access to remote islands and places with no or irregular or expensive public transportation.

Downsides:
1. * * *We are not sailors and do not crave long, open ocean voyages. We see the boat more as an RV to give us access.
2. * * *Boat may be expensive to buy. Depreciation? Maintenance costs? Fuel costs?
3. * * *We are not seeking solitude but contact with other cultures.
4. * * *Can an adequate living size boat be sailed by a couple?


Iprobably missed a lot of issues but someone out there must have tread this path and has insights to offer.

Financially I can retire in about 3 years. This has more to do with a son in High School than age or years on the job. I will have a pension and a house to sell. I could provide some financial details but ideas are probably more important.

[dory36]

Most of the cruising/lining aboard boaters we have met in the past few years have been more interested in having their home with them as they move from place to place, rather than being open water boaters.

There are lots of people who love the thrill of going out and boating for the sake of boating, but that seems to be a different group.

One example -- The cruising/living aboard group would never think of pulling up the anchor and going out sailing for an afternoon just for the heck of it, or to entertain a visitor. The other group would probably never think of just keeping their boat at anchor in some quiet lagoon for a week or a month.

So I think most of the cruisiers we've met are like you -- this is simply a way of living on the cheap, going from place to place, and never having to pack/unpack suitcase.

Most do this in protected waters, many go island hopping in the Bahamas, where the next anchorage is never more than a day's cruise from the one you're leaving, and a very few cruise the open waters and cross the ocean(s). We've met a small number who preferred the short trips, and had their boats transported across the Atlantic so they could rejoin and continue cruising in the Mediterranean.

As for maintenance and finances, I pretty much said all I know, and probably more, in earlier parts of this thread.

For what it's worth, we had basically no boating experience or background before we bought the boat we've been living/cruising on. We bought it a couple of years before retirement, took 2 ~500 mile trips duing vacations, and that was it. Then we retired aboard and started cruising full time.

Good luck,

Dory36

[Barnstormer]

Dory

You must have a great tan

Dear Dory
I am working towards putting together a venture that would be suitable for people who lack the marine experience or insights to embark on a venture by themselves.
I would like to return to the shipboard lifestyle I’ve enjoyed for the past few years, in Southeast Asia.
To do this I would like to mobilize a 110 ft catamaran a friend has offered me at a token purchase price as a full time live-aboard for people from my own age group.
This vessel would be well suited for a wide variety of activities and which one we engage in is not overly important as long as it provides an interesting and meaningful lifestyle for everyone involved.
This is a situation for people who are still fit, active and looking to put adventure or meaning into their remaining years.
We could do some type of charter business to make the vessel self supporting or we could get into some type of humanitarian work.
My background is engineering and construction and I have spent the last twenty years on a wide variety of projects in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.
Also over the last 50 years I have worked on a wide variety of marine activities ranging from dive salvage to Arctic ice breaking, lighthouse tending, commercial fishing and finally to operating my own 100 ft. dive and survey support vessel in Southeast Asia.
What I need to do is make people aware of the opportunity offered by this situation.
If we engaged in a venture with this vessel and it proceeded the way I would like, it would be the combined effort of everyone involved, we share the challenges, and the activity we finally get into with the vessel would reflect the wishes of everyone involved.
Although I’m in excellent health and very active I’m still 66 years old, and would like to enjoy my remaining years with friends from my own age group.
This is the reason I’ve refused several offers to get into a purely commercial business operation with the ship.
I’ve numerous ideas as to what we could do with the vessel, but am certainly not conceited enough to think I’m the only one with good ideas or that mine are somehow better.
I can design and refurbish ships, that’s my specialty but it would be fun to put together a venture where everyone was involved in coming up with ideas as to we could best utilize the vessel and the spaces we have to work with.
My feeling and past experience is that the friendly controversy involved is one of the things that cements true friendships.
If you have an idea as to how I might put the message across to people in a manner that accurately reflects what I’d like to do, I’d certainly be grateful for any suggestions.
Yours Truly
Cyril R. Price

[dory36]

No good marketing ideas, but good luck. Maybe a well-publicized web site? Or you might check with some of the many charter brokers and see about getting listed with them, once you are up and running. Or did I miss something in the writeup?

Perhaps others will have ideas.

(By the way, for the benefit of anyone curious, the inserted text like "’" sprinkled here and there usually come from copying from Microsoft Word and pasting into the forum. Word uses nonstandard codes for curly quotes and so forth, and only Word and a few other programs can interpret them.)

Dory36