Retirement Paradise is Panama

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagar We live in a gated subdivision , but if you look at a lot of the newer* subdivisions, there is a gate but no guard. Meaning that the gate keeps some out but not all.* *The guard is a better deterrent, but not especially cheap, so the homeowners will actually end up paying if they want a guard, once the developer pulls his equipment out. In our case, we have bars on all windows and doors. Many of the houses in this development do not. We have them for one reason, the police here are concerned about crime, but are often tasked with more problems than manpower. if a break-in occurs, they will fill out the necessary paperwork and I'm sure make an effort to solve the crime. Meanwhile, whatever was taken is gone and probably will not be returned and insurance claims are often underwhelming. Absolutely, no different than the US, in my opionion. We are gone for month or more with absolutely no fear of break-in. * * *There are a few lots left in this subdivsion, and they all have views. The lots with views are priced higher so Panamanians do not look at these lots. * *There is no way I would have a house sitter. Nor do most of the Americans I know.* *What we have is a niece's inlaws on one end of our street and a neice's inlaws on the other end of the street, so family members are up and down our street every day, plus we have friendly and good neighbors. Move in to this development and your house will be watched * *You really need to come down and take a look at what Panama has to offer and you don't need to have the big dollars that many are saying one needs to retire. Just do it.

Oh, this sounds so good! As long as you put bars on all your windows, buy someplace expensive enough to keep out those pesky foreigners-whoops, I mean citizens- and be sure to take your own private security force of kin, you should have a really good experience. ¡Bienvenidos a Panama!



Ha

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa Oh, this sounds so good! As long as you put bars on all your windows, buy someplace expensive enough to keep out those pesky foreigners-whoops, I mean citizens- and be sure to take your own private security force of kin, you should have a really good experience.

Sounds like San Diego, LA, Silicon Valley, parts of SF, a lot of NYC & Boston... only a lot cheaper.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Sounds like San Diego, LA, Silicon Valley, parts of SF, a lot of NYC & Boston... only a lot cheaper.

The # of non-sequiters per inch of copy on this board is sometimes astounding.

Ha

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa The # of non-sequiters per inch of copy on this board is sometimes astounding.

While it may not have been your conclusion, I believe it followed quite logically from the facts presented...

[haha]

I don't know, but to me your assertion is possibly true, but beside the point. How many of us are looking into making retirement homes in the cities you mentioned?

Not to mention the side issues- most of us speak English, not Spanish. I have lived in several Latin states, and in my opinion, although US police departments can be corrupt, it is a real stretch to mention the worst of them in the same breath with Panama, or really anywhere south of the Rio Bravo.

It just seems not wise to uproot oneself to go somewhere far away where the best that can be said is "it may not be any worse than (the worst) parts of some (bad) us central cities- but anyway it is sure cheap!!" Whoopee!

ha

[GTM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbrane As I understand it, annuities don't qualify for some reason..... -m

It's true annuities wont cut it. You need a pension or SS of $600 per month and its need to be for life and must be varified.

There are other options such as business ownership or investment in government programs but if you have the cash the best way is to put 200k into a bank there.
Or 100k in the bank and buy an apartment in Panama City.
First world living in high rise complexes are about $100 per square foot. 100k can buy something nice.

[modhatter]

Pager,
I enjoyed your posts, and wish you would come back. Don't let one person scare you off, when many more like hearing about your experiences there. I tried the first web site you posted that showed your development, but it would not come up. Did you get the address right?

Wondered how the cost of living there compared with Mexico. Of course Mexico is a big place, but I am speaking of the expate enclaves there. Anyway, post another link if you have one, and come on back.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by modhatter Pager, I enjoyed your posts, and wish you would come back.* Don't let one person scare you off, when many more like hearing about your experiences there.*

Señor PagaPoco, definitely don't let a Teddy-Bear like ol' Ha scare you away from your appointed task. I fully support anyone's plans to move to Panama - I mean, besides Iraq and Afghanistan, where in the world can you go that has recently been at war with the USA?

Nowhere, that's where! But in addition to warm weather and lots of bananas Panama can provide you with these thrilling events:

"On December 15, 1989, Noriega sought and was given by the legislature the title of chief executive officer of the government. The Noriega-led assembly declared that a state of war with the United States existed. The next day Panamanian soldiers killed an unarmed U.S. Marine officer dressed in civilian clothes.

Retaliation by the United States was quick and decisive. On December 17, U.S. President George Bush ordered troops to Panama, with the subsequently announced aims of seizing Noriega to face drug charges in the United States, protecting American lives and property, and restoring Panamanian liberties. The initial attack took place in darkness on the morning of December 20 and was focused primarily on Noriega's headquarters in Panama City"

All this sounds really nice to me, but I would definitely budget a little extra to cover bunker building.

Ha

[vic]

Now, unless there is a typo in the date, that is 16 years ago.... Although unfortunate for the individual who was killed it also seems fairly uneventful to me.

Pagar,
Keep on posting about Panama. I am very interested to hear from someone who actually lives there.

Vicky

[Lancelot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa Not to mention the side issues- most of us speak English, not Spanish.

Jeez, I was considering visiting Central America until I found out about the Spanish thingy.

I wonder if they have TV and indoor bathrooms...

Lance

[pagar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancelot Jeez, I was considering visiting Central America until I found out about the Spanish thingy. I wonder if they have TV and indoor bathrooms... Lance

Indoor bathrooms? Sometimes. TV and cell phones always.
Seriously, this country is a whole lot more advanced than some people think,
In fact, I suspect sometimes the outdoor bathrooms are strictly for use by the tourists, who don't have a clue that the natives are laughing at them while taking their money. Having used some so-called indoor bathrooms in several foreign countries; I don't think you should worry about whether Panama's bathrooms will meet your standard.

[pagar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbrane Pagar: Thanks for the info. I still think Panama is more expensive than, say, Argentina or Brazil or Venezuela... -m

Unless you'll welcome in certain political circles-you might want to avoid Venezuela right now.

[pagar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheryl Ditto here - I am very greatful to hear from anyone with personal experience in Central America (or anywhere for that matter) and apprecitated the links very much. Please stick around, Pagar! Another thing I'd be interested in hearing is how you feel Panama compares to other CA countries as far as cost of living and safety/security.

There is no comparision. Panama is much safer and more secure than any of the other CA countries.

[pagar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa I don't know, but to me your assertion is possibly true, but beside the point. How many of us are looking into making retirement homes in the cities you mentioned? Not to mention the side issues- most of us speak English, not Spanish. I have lived in several Latin states, and in my opinion, although US police departments can be corrupt, it is a real stretch to mention the worst of them in the same breath with Panama, or really anywhere south of the Rio Bravo. It just seems not wise to uproot oneself to go somewhere far away where the best that can be said is "it may not be any worse than (the worst) parts of some (bad) us central cities- but anyway it is sure cheap!!" Whoopee! ha

My guess is there are now a good many Americans cities where it would be harder to find a person who speaks English than Spanish. Personally I'm in this country because I married a wonderful woman from here and we are
better off and enjoying life more here. No one is forcing any one to read about Panama; those who don't want to know about it should just ignore these messages.

[pagar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa Señor PagaPoco, definitely don't let a Teddy-Bear like ol' Ha scare you away from your appointed task. I fully support anyone's plans to move to Panama - I mean, besides Iraq and Afghanistan, where in the world can you go that has recently been at war with the USA? Nowhere, that's where! But in addition to warm weather and lots of bananas Panama can provide you with these thrilling events: "On December 15, 1989, Noriega sought and was given by the legislature the title of chief executive officer of the government. The Noriega-led assembly declared that a state of war with the United States existed. The next day Panamanian soldiers killed an unarmed U.S. Marine officer dressed in civilian clothes. Retaliation by the United States was quick and decisive. On December 17, U.S. President George Bush ordered troops to Panama, with the subsequently announced aims of seizing Noriega to face drug charges in the United States, protecting American lives and property, and restoring Panamanian liberties. The initial attack took place in darkness on the morning of December 20 and was focused primarily on Noriega's headquarters in Panama City" All this sounds really nice to me, but I would definitely budget a little extra to cover bunker building. Ha

Marines die in many countries, and have since Nov 10th 1775. I quote from an article in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer,Sept 1st,2005-Mike Barber
titled "Marine's last letter found on computer' Others have died for my freedom" a message Cpl Jeff Starr composed for his girlfriend, to be read
if he did not return from Iraq.



"I don't regret going, everybody dies but few get to do it for something as important as freedom. It may seem confusing why we are in Iraq, it's not to me. I'm here helping these people, so that they can live the way we live. Not have to worry about tyrants or vicious dictators. To do what they want with their lives. To me that is why I died. Others have died for my freedom, now this is my mark."

I have never been in the Marines. I have no idea what that Marine Capt thought that day, or what message he might have wished to leave that he did not get the chance to, but I can tell you that the branch of service I retired from and I believe all others-teach that when you take the oath to defend the United States, you may be called upon to give your life to do so.
The Marine Capt that died here in Panama that day in Dec 1989 gave his life in defense of America, and as a result of the US reaction. Panama is now free again and the person who caused the whole mess sits in an American prison, pretty much in luxury (compared to how he would be treated in Panama). Panama is a small country that can never hope to
field the type of forces required to over throw a corrupt dictator. The message that Americans should remember from that action in 1989 is that
it is very easy for a corrupt dictator to be elected, and very difficult to throw
one out. Other countries are going thru the same agony today, in many cases, supported by ex American Presidents that certify phony elections:
Americans who would never defend their own country, but are quick to defend anyone who is against us, and Americans who won't do anything to stop the illegal aliens who intend to bankrupt and destroy America.
Those of us who are living here that I know feel no need for bunkers.

[MJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagar No one is forcing any one to read about Panama; those who don't want to know about it should just ignore these messages.

pagar, I don't have problem and in fact welcome reading information about Panama or any other country that could be a possible future retirement home for myself or anyone else on this board. IMHO, I don't think it's appropriate to include information that would appear to promote (perceived or actual) a personal or family (even wife's family) business.

So please continue to share the benefits of living in Panama.

MJ

[LEX]

Panama is a nice place to visit. I have and enjoyed it. However, when things go bad there, they go bad fast. You can get ripped off in Panama and have absolutely no legal remedy. Better to be a long term tourist with a plane ticket home than to sink real money into any latin american real estate that is one junta away from being spoils to the revolutionary partisans and their machete logic. 8)

[pbrane]

Looks like the rules may be changing in Panama regarding titled vs. right of possession land:



Kathleen Peddicord
Publisher, International Living

P.S. Across the Pond in Panama, controversy is brewing. A new Law 132 is being considered "to regulate concessions for tourism investment and the sale and transfer of island property for tourism development to the government." Or, as our local attorney puts it: "The government finally has decided to sort out the mess that is Bocas. The new law is necessary, but, yes, some people are bound to get burned if it passes."

The issue is Rights of Possession land. As we've told you many times, Rights of Possession is not the same as title (despite what some local real estate agents, especially in the Bocas del Toro region of the country, where the trouble is centered, will tell you). We hope you haven't bought land in Panama (or anywhere) that didn't come with fee-simple title. But if you have invested in Rights of Possession property in Bocas, you should be paying attention to the current debate. Brandon Clogston will keep readers of his Panama Insider fully informed...and, of course, we'll update you here, too.

[pbrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagar Unless you'll welcome in certain political circles-you might want to avoid Venezuela right now.

Pagar:

Do you have some experience with Venezuela? I seem to be getting opposing views on whether it might be safe for retirement or not. I'm mainly talking about areas outside the big cities, especially Caracas, which everyone seems to agree is a place to pass thru as fast as possible....

Thanks,
-m

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

pagar,

I have the same questions as pbrane about VZ.

Merida, in the mountains, looks attractive as a place to spend some time, for example to go to a Spanish language school. Cheap, safe, interesting.

I have been working with a group of VZ expats who have basically been chased out of their country by Sr. Chavez for even the slightest political activity against him. While they are educated people and well-travelled, it is hard to learn much from their points of view. I have no personal beef with Chavez (actually, it looks like an intersting experiment--how long can he keep doing what he wants to do before reality catchhes up with him? I can dig $0.25/gal gas, too!) and no interest in getting involved with local politics.

Cheers,

Lalo el Gitano