Seeking Input on Living in Nevada or Utah

[blueskyk]

And all believing they alone are correct and true!! Personally, I’m just looking for a little more “live and let live” for anyone trying to do the hard work of loving your neighbor[emoji4]

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueskyk Here’s the weird thing - I’m hardly the polar opposite in religion in views. In my family tree we have Baptists, Methodists, Non-denominational, Catholics, Jewish and spiritual-but-not-religious and I myself am Episcopalian. All believe in “love your neighbor”, serve with kindness and compassion in your community, and treat others as you wish to be treated. We differ on the acceptability of playing cards, dancing and consumption of alcohol to name a few. I’ve also experienced every one of them (and myself) being both kind and unkind. And, I’ve known incredible people who really lived out “love one another” who had absolutely no affiliation with any faith tradition. I regularly defend the LDS when someone says something disparaging as people who live deeply from their faith and are good and kind. But when we speak together of spiritual matters I am always offered the Book of Mormon instead of celebrating what we already have in common ( did I not just share that I, too have a faith that I’m endeavoring to live out? I’m happy to accept you just as you are!) I never anticipated this impact of culture in selecting a place to retire. For me, as it turns out, it’s actually more important than taxes or all the other financial considerations and I never realized this. The good news is that if it doesn’t work out, we’ve saved enough and are young enough we can make a different choice. I must say, I would forever miss the grandeur of the scenery.

A couple comments on this, IMO a lot of LDS feel their religion is misunderstood and maybe even mocked in some mainstream views. I view the sharing of the BOM as merely an attempt to inform rather then convert. As always individuals can be on either extreme here. I'm also reminded of the Gideons , who spread the Bible virtually everywhere. Same principle.
I'm sorry this is causing you such a problem, and hope it improves with time. It's a fine line....and again everyone in that area is not a practicing LDS member....

[ivinsfan]

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Originally Posted by braumeister You just haven't been paying attention. There are tens of thousands of full-time non-LDS missionaries all over the world.

Yes however the LDS send out the 19 or 20 year old boys, they also have to pay their own way. I personally believe its a genius way to keep young men this age out of trouble.....

[tfudtuckerpucker]

Interesting thread. Maybe I can give some insight. I moved from Utah 30 years ago (lived there for the first few decades of my life). I went on an lds mission to West Germany back during the cold war. Lol, it kept me out of trouble for a couple of years. The first city I stayed in was on the Siegfried line. I remember many older men were missing an arm or leg. Very few germans were interested in the mormon faith. It was only 30 years since WW2, but generally american culture was popular. I never noticed animosity towards us. And I did become quite fluent in German, which I value.

Regarding Utah, I had a number of friends who were not lds, so I have a bit of perspective from them. I think it might be a bit different socially, depending on the neighborhood, and expectations for social engagement with neighbors. For example, Salt Lake County is less than 50% lds, and maybe half of those are members in name only (don't attend church or participate, etc). Areas in the suburbs or away from cities in Utah (including the intermountain west- see attached map) would have a higher %, though you will find non-lds or "non-participating lds" everywhere. I think if you move there and make it clear, when asked, that you're not interested, you'll be fine. You can find friends and social connections of all types. Regarding alcohol, the laws are screwy there (so I'm told)- personally I don't agree with churches becoming involved in such things (think "blue laws", which Utah incidentally doesn't have). In any case I suggest renting there for a year first, before committing to buying a house. You might find the temperature inversion drives you from enjoying the wonderful outdoors there.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfudtuckerpucker Regarding Utah, I had a number of friends who were not lds, so I have a bit of perspective from them. I think it might be a bit different socially, depending on the neighborhood, and expectations for social engagement with neighbors. For example, Salt Lake County is less than 50% lds, and maybe half of those are members in name only (don't attend church or participate, etc). Areas in the suburbs or away from cities in Utah (including the intermountain west- see attached map) would have a higher %, though you will find non-lds or "non-participating lds" everywhere. I think if you move there and make it clear, when asked, that you're not interested, you'll be fine. You can find friends and social connections of all types. Regarding alcohol, the laws are screwy there.

I think that was a pretty good overview.

As for alcohol, the laws about it are screwy in a great many states.
But I have to say that my experience with Utah-brewed craft beers has been superb. They may be lower in alcohol than in other states, but they're very high in flavor. That's a GOOD thing.

I've greatly enjoyed the short periods I've spent in Utah, although I'm not religious in any sense. Never any feeling of exclusion. And I have a friend (also secular) who moved there (in the Ogden area) over 40 years ago and has loved it ever since.

[blueskyk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan I'm sorry this is causing you such a problem, and hope it improves with time. It's a fine line....and again everyone in that area is not a practicing LDS member....

Thanks for your gracious response - now I think I’ll head over to a thread that offers some wisdom on how to navigate the ACA stuff when we turn 65...

[blueskyk]

Here’s an interesting (nerdy?) point on data presentation (the chart) - the darkest color on the chart indicates LDS population at “13.79%+”....the latest estimates I find online state about 78% of the population in the St George area is “religious” and of this 78%, 70% are LDS.

Both % (13.79+ and 70) statements are technically correct in their presentations but they do not convey the same information at all!

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueskyk Here’s an interesting (nerdy?) point on data presentation (the chart) - the darkest color on the chart indicates LDS population at “13.79%+”....the latest estimates I find online state about 78% of the population in the St George area is “religious” and of this 78%, 70% are LDS. Both % (13.79+ and 70) statements are technically correct in their presentations but they do not convey the same information at all!

I wonder where they get these numbers , the numbers you quoted are more in line with my experience in both Northern and Southern Utah. Based on my interactions with many LDS over the course of 50 years, I'd say that remaining 70% is split about 50/50 between the active followers and as they sometimes call themselves the "jack" Mormons or non practicing. I have no idea where that term originates.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueskyk Thanks for your gracious response - now I think I’ll head over to a thread that offers some wisdom on how to navigate the ACA stuff when we turn 65...

Good luck with that, I just went thru it and Medicare is way more complicated then ACA.

I found this little side trip about religion and relocating really interesting as it is intangible and different for everyone. Certainly religion and local political affiliations will have different impacts to each person.

[tfudtuckerpucker]

Here's another interesting chart, for counties in Utah. From my experience you cut the numbers roughly in half (maybe less in some areas), for "practicing" lds members. According to this, St George would be roughly 30% "practicing".

[blueskyk]

It’s exactly this line of reasoning (minimizing the numbers) that landed me here, shall we say...uninformed and unprepared for what I’ve experienced.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueskyk It’s exactly this line of reasoning (minimizing the numbers) that landed me here, shall we say...uninformed and unprepared for what I’ve experienced.

That's why this is a good discussion, real world experience and knowing what's important to you is key. I'm certainly not trying to minimize what you feel. So many posters suggest renting in an area for 12 months before you buy a house. In your case this would have probably been a good route to follow.

I really fail to see the downside of renting when picking a retirement location.

[Brat]

From a social standpoint, the same could be said about Baptists and 'Born Again' evangelical groups in some communities. My advice is to know the community culture of an area before you move.

[Dtail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan That's why this is a good discussion, real world experience and knowing what's important to you is key. I'm certainly not trying to minimize what you feel. So many posters suggest renting in an area for 12 months before you buy a house. In your case this would have probably been a good route to follow. I really fail to see the downside of renting when picking a retirement location.

+1
We rented for 1+ years in FLA without knowing anyone and are now in the process of buying a house.

[blueskyk]

Yes, renting would have been a good idea - when we looked at the area we had a very difficult time locating a rental that would permit two large dogs (we didn’t see any, in fact). In the over all financial analysis, renting seemed like an extra expense we didn’t need as we sold our mortgage-free home and purchased a home here for cash. We estimated renting would have cost us about $24-36k for a year.

I absolutely want to say there are many great things about the area - when my husband left the house with his cell phone on top of the car and lost it somewhere along his route a jogger found it and turned it in to the local police who then took the time to charge it up, look through the contacts to find “Mom” and called his mother to let her know they had his phone. We had already purchased a new phone because, where we came from, returning a lost phone was highly unlikely. This is only one experience of several that have helped us appreciate the goodness and kindness of the locals.

Honestly the real difficulty has occurred because my work involves spiritual activities across different faith traditions in an effort to celebrate and join in what we have in common without anyone trying to get each other to change teams. In one group I had a Buddhist, a couple of Catholics, a few Methodists and a “spiritual but not religious” all learning about silent prayer (The old saying being “we all agree in silence”) And simply, there was far more interest in reaching across these boundaries in my old location.

This discussion has helped me review and identify my own sort of “confirmation bias” in selecting a retirement location - we all see what we want to see and minimize the rest (perhaps it’s a little like getting married in that regard...I know several people who wish they had only rented a spouse for a year[emoji4]). The power of this phenomenon alone is probably a good reason to rent first!

We just finished our first year here. We’ve agreed to give it another couple of years and then reassess.

[ivinsfan]

blueslkyk...these things can change over the years too. After being raised an Army brat and then living in Utah, I ended up living on the same farm in a rural MN county for over 45 years, I'm still here.

Country people are like everyone else, most are nice, good neighbors, friendly and a few are mean spirited jerks. After living among these neighbors and a few people in small towns nearby, I realize these people are nice but very insular. More then a few live on Century farms, or the same town of 500 that Grandma and Grandpa were born in. When I was caught up in raising children, dairy farming, teaching sunday school and doing 4-H things seemed fine. But now with all that stripped away I realize how little I have in common with them.

I happen to think insular is also a good way to describe many LDS, they've never known anything else, see their extended family constantly and are happy, but somehow not engaged with other different people in the outside world or other ways of thinking and feeling. One would think with internet this might change but it doesn't. In my case it's left me feeling a little bit of an outsider in my own neighborhood, kind of like I'm not in on the joke.

The biggest downside for me in this is that at 70 my DH wants to continue farming and continue to live on the place he knows and loves and in my case I realize if he passes before me I'm either going to be pretty lonely or going to have to pack up, sell and move.. Restart my life..it's a stressful thought. I have talked to my DH about relocating now together, but he's not open to that at this point.

I hope you keep us posted on what develops in the next couple years and FWIW I'd love to have you for a neighbor.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan I happen to think insular is also a good way to describe many LDS, they've never known anything else, see their extended family constantly and are happy, but somehow not engaged with other different people in the outside world or other ways of thinking and feeling.

I know quite a few Amish folk and would describe their lifestyle the same way. The key word is happy.

[blueskyk]

I think another key word is community. Feeling like an outsider is a bummer whether it’s in a new community or an old one. I’m finding it really takes an effort to establish a new community for yourself - it’s kind of my new job now and I’m trying to be really creative about all the different ways I might connect in meaningful ways with others.

As we age I think of building community as a “resiliency” skill.

And, I do not really look forward to the possibility of doing this multiple times as I get older but I can definitely see the potential for that. I think doing it after the loss of a spouse would be at the Master Class level...

Perhaps a really good discussion topic would be all the ways people have built community.....

[Teacher Terry]

I would move somewhere welcoming where you can thrive. Life is too short and it would be horrible to be single in that situation.

[Rambler]

I really like southern Utah and have stopped while passing thru a dozen times or so. St George is great, but as far as costs are concerned you may want to look just outside, perhaps in Hurricane. You should be aware that the St George area can get pretty hot in the summer...not as hot as Phoenix, but hot nonetheless. If you like a cooler summer and can stand a colder winter, perhaps look about 45 min to an hour north, in Cedar City, where I understand the elevation cools things down a bit, plus, I hear there’s good skiing there if that’s in your wheelhouse (not in mine). You should also educate yourselves on the tax situation. Nevada is generally better for income tax purposes (there are none) but you’d need to research particular homes to get a handle on property tax. We decided on the Phoenix area ourselves...the tax situation is better, electricity is cheap, but you do use a lot of it in the summer. Newer homes are significantly better insulated and cheaper to cool than even 10-15 year old homes are here. We did try Nevada...we bought a home in Sparks, had it for 16 months, but ultimately sold it because even though the little development we were in 10 miles north of the city was quite nice, we didn’t like the overall environment. We are much happier in Phoenix than we were in Sparks, but, St George area was on our short list. Phoenix won out for the taxes and 9 months out of 12 of generally great weather.