Small EVs / autocycles

[Physics Guy]

Does anyone have any experience with the small EVs / glorified motorcycles / autocycles?

I'll need a new car in 2022 when I return to the USA. I already have a Honda minivan so I'm mostly looking at a second car for city and suburban driving. Lots of short trips (40-50 miles round trip) on roads with speed limits up to 55 and occasional trips on the highway that would be more like 100 miles when I have to get ​across town. More or less perfect conditions for a EV.

Practically I should buy a Bolt or a Leaf. Or something like a used Prius. I can make that argument without help. So what I'm looking for is anything about whether autocycles and city cars are actually pleasant to drive? Are they at least 3 season vehicles or summer only? How are they for doing errands?

For that matter is there any good one stop shop for info on which ones are shipping, what the general wait time to get one is, and pricing?

 

[Out of Steam]

The biggest problem with small vehicles in the USA is that urban/suburban roads with 35 to 50 mph speed limits are among our deadliest, with frequent t-bone wrecks. Google “stroads” for background.

Except for very limited urban use, at 35 mph or less, where short length for street parking matters, I don’t believe that anything smaller than a Prius/Corolla/Bolt has a place on US roads.

Since you’ve been out of the US, I should note that road safety in the US has deteriorated drastically during the pandemic. Deaths per vehicle mile are up over 20%, and if you are hospitalized, there are probably no beds.

Now that I think of it, maybe a Camry or Avalon hybrid would be better.

 

[Physics Guy]

I'm familiar with the stroad concept.

Safety is a good angle. One of the few vehicles in this class that is available for purchase is the Arcimoto and my first glance at it screams unsafe. However there are others such as the Solo and, when it ships, the Aptera start to give off more of a car visual which I think would help other drivers.

I've spent the vast majority of my driving life behind the wheel of something smaller than a Camry or Avalon and never regretted the size. This includes driving a older Civic and a Prius last summer in the US. If they hadn't discontinued the Fit it would have been a strong contender even though I really want to go BEV.

 

[GTFan]

You can get plenty of Chinese mini EV junk here (mostly cycles), not sure how many can be registered though. Plenty of vids on YouTube with folks either buying them on AMZ or importing them via Alibaba etc.

 

[caninelover]

My Subaru is now 10 years old, and I'm starting to think about what's next.

I would still like a small SUV or crossover but I too would prefer my next car is a BEV.

There are a lot of new options being introduced in the next couple of years. I am actually planning to attend the LA Auto Show in a couple of weeks - I've found auto shows are actually a nice place to look around at lots of different cars, get inside them, talk to product reps. So I may have some more information then, but if you live near a city that is large enough to host an auto show I recommend going to the lay of the land when it comes to new cars.

 

[OldShooter]

... Safety is a good angle. One of the few vehicles in this class that is available for purchase is the Arcimoto and my first glance at it screams unsafe. However there are others such as the Solo and, when it ships, the Aptera start to give off more of a car visual which I think would help other drivers.

I've spent the vast majority of my driving life behind the wheel of something smaller than a Camry or Avalon and never regretted the size. This includes driving a older Civic and a Prius last summer in the US. If they hadn't discontinued the Fit it would have been a strong contender even though I really want to go BEV.

I have been a car guy my whole life. Not long after I got out of graduate school I had a Lotus Elan coupe. Back then I used to joke that if I pulled up next to a Volkswagen I could read the lock numbers on the door handle. I was also young enough to know that I would live forever.

I wouldn't consider such a car now as a daily driver because pulled up or driving along side one of the now-ubiquitous SUVs I would be hard or impossible for the driver to see me.

And, @Physics Guy, consider Newton's second law in a possible collision with a vehicle two or more times the mass of yours. Or, hitting something along side the road, your featherweight vehicle will be decelerated much more quickly than a "real car." If you are not somehow punctured or crushed, it is the deceleration "Gs" that kill. IIRC about 30Gs does it.

Give me a nice safe race car and a Snell SA helmet any day.

 

[teetee]

It is unsafe to drive anything smaller than a Corolla on the US roads that have speed limit of 55mph. You can find people driving at 70 mph on those roads while texting.

I am sure many people who drive Chevy Spark or Kia Rio like to prove me wrong but by the end of the day, it is your life vs distracted / under influenced drivers'.

 

[SnowballCamper]

Practically I should buy a Bolt or a Leaf. Or something like a used Prius. I can make that argument without help. So what I'm looking for is anything about whether autocycles and city cars are actually pleasant to drive?

Funny how others assume a teacher who goes by "Physics Guy" needs to be reminded about the laws of physics.

Sorry, I don't have experience with little electric vehicles. I wish my older Bolt had a more comfortable seat. A newer one I sat in was much more comfortable.

Good Luck!

 

[Physics Guy]

LOL! Thanks Snowball Camper. There are many safety issues in any car and smaller vehicles are certainly less safe. Size/mass, visibility, speed, stability, and strength of construction all enter into it. To a large extent my feeling is that as long as a vehicle is legally allowed on the road the safety issues are a matter of personal choice.

Personally I'd like to get an EV that is the size of the Fit, Yaris, Fiat 500 or so forth. Most US EVs are bigger than I really want. The autocycles are smaller than I want but I'd love to get more information about the more carlike ones such as the Solo or the Aptera.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Personally I'd like to get an EV that is the size of the Fit, Yaris, Fiat 500 or so forth.

BMW i3?

 

[Physics Guy]

BMW i3?

It's a thought but it's awfully close to the Tesla in price. If the tax incentives work out and I could get a decent deal buying one in 2022 I'd certainly think about it. The specs are perfect but it's $10k over what I want to spend because it is a BMW and has much flashier styling than I care about.

 

[MC Rider]

Motorcycles are great fun to ride and can help you filter through traffic.
Easy to park, good on gas, etc.
The downside is you have no steel cage around you. Hmm, maybe that is an upside, as long as you don't crash.
I love bikes, they are more maneuverable than cars and trucks.

But you are more vulnerable.
I mostly ride out of town. A lot depends on your town and traffic.

 

[swakyaby]

While I don’t own a small EV, I do drive both an electric sedan as well as a combustion engine smaller sport coupe. I have to say that an electric vehicle is a pleasure to drive in the city for errands. It’s acceleration is very responsive, and the regenerative braking makes it efficient. In my mild winter Northern California region, it is a 4 season vehicle. For colder regions, battery range is not so good I’m told. I often drive my smaller car to squeeze into those compact parking spaces around town, but if I had a compact BEV, it would get used a lot in the city where I live.

 

[Badger]

There are a lot of electric and gas 4 wheel large 6 passenger "golf carts" in my small town. Sometimes are used for running errands and other times to carry kids to school. Some of them can reach speeds up to 25 mph. Some have roofs and side curtains. I guess they are good for how they are used. I get a little annoyed sometimes with so many people and kids that are "learner permit age" that think because they are not a car they have different rules on the road.

I would not ride in one outside of the neighborhood. Too many people driving trucks in the same way.


Cheers!

 

[RobLJ]

I think your "practical" impulse for a Bolt or Leaf was correct, for now. That could change quickly in 2022 or 2023. We're very happy with our 2019 Bolt, but as snowball mentions, the seats could be better.



https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32463239/new-ev-models-us/

I sometimes see a MiniCooperE parked at the local park when we walk to the river, but I haven't met the owner yet but will talk to him/her if and when that occured. The range of the Bolt allows us to use it for most Northern Sierra hikes all the way past the Carson Valley from Reno; that doesn't sound like it would be much of an issue for you, so the lower range Leaf probably would be cheaper.

By the way, I remember seeing the original Aptera (gas model) back around 2009 or so; my oldest and I enjoyed their website. It still seems cool in the new proposed solarE version but I'm dubious they will actually become a going concern.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

It's a thought but it's awfully close to the Tesla in price. If the tax incentives work out and I could get a decent deal buying one in 2022 I'd certainly think about it. The specs are perfect but it's $10k over what I want to spend because it is a BMW and has much flashier styling than I care about.

We owned a 2014 BMW I3 for a few years. Purchased used with only 11000 miles for $20,000 so the wife could use the commute lane. At the time they only had 82 mile range but that worked for wife's commute until the range dropped to around 55 miles in the Phoenix heat. She would try to conserve range by using the air conditioner less and trying to maintain 65 in the commute lane but nobody drives 65 these days. So we ended up getting rid of it.
It was a lot of fun to drive while we had it. It felt very roomy inside but was very small on the outside. Still don't know how they managed that. I joked that it was my electric Honda Element.
The 2019 and newer models have a 153 mile range and would be a good option or one with the range extender. Before all the vehicle shortages used EVs were the way to go.
Arizona is eliminating the EV ownership incentives such as low registration fees and commute lane privilege in 2025. Something to check on in your area if these things matter to you.
I am not a flashy BMW kinda guy but the I3 was funky enough and so fun to drive I would consider another one.
Also like the funky Bolt styling but couldn't get past those uncomfortable seats. The 200 mile plus range would be awesome. We were $1000.00 away from purchasing a 2022 Bolt when they first came out but dealer was playing with the numbers so we walked. The new interior is much nicer IMO. Seats could still be an inch or two wider but we're good enough. Fun car to drive and no range anxiety...would have been great...then the battery recall issues started...
Hoping Bolt issues and car prices issues get resolved in 2022. I miss my EV. I love smaller cars and the I3 and Bolt are just right IMO.

I have been keeping track of used I3 prices and they seem high right now like all used cars. I would say 2019 model with around 20,000 miles are going for 28000 to 33000 right now depending on location and options.
Somethings to keep in mind with I3 is tires only last about 20,000 miles and BMW service is $$$.

 

[ocean view]

A good friend of mine has an Arcimoto. I know he drives his on the freeway. He loves it. He’s an EV enthusiast, to put it mildly. I’m sure he’d be willing to share his experiences with you. PM me if you’d like me to hook you up.