Snowbirds on the forum? Splitting time between cities?

[youbet]

My wife and I were faced with the same conundrum and decided to go the RV route. We have a motorhome that comfortably takes us anywhere we want to go and then offers us the comforts of home. With four slideouts we have abundant room and we carry all our needs. We tow our car behind us so we have that to use when we reach our destination. We can change locations easily, stay as long as we like, and move about if weather, neighbors, etc., get on our nerves. RV parks are abundant and RV'ers in general are a friendly, helpful bunch. We really like the independence it gives us.

I can't disagree that the motorhome solution is a nice one. But, to be clear to all, it isn't an inexpensive one easily costing as much as renting a nice apartment seasonally in most areas.

 

[someguy]

Anyone who is ESR'd done this? My semi-income is already pretty well disconnected from geography and DW is working to get hers there, too.

 

[NW-Bound]

In 2010 we bought a place in La Quinta Ca and have been spending about 6 there and 6 in Oregon. Thought there would be massive utility savings by spending time only in the temperate seasons in each place, which hasn't really worked - a pool down south means substantial electric bills there year round, we leave gas billing and shut off the valve at the meter so we can have hot water fast whenever we arrive N or S. We shut off the expensive water and winterize N, which is a pain. Have a pool guy S and a yard guy N while we are away.

Changing mail forwarding with USPS is fairly workable, magazines & papers are a problem, as are some bank statements. A big gotcha happened this year: since we are down S during tax time we had requested that a number of places send the annual interest statements to us down south so we could have them in hand for our records and to put together for the tax prep person. State of California decided to put it's hand out to me for resident state taxes for 2010, I think based on those statements being sent to me in California. We now will retrieve all statements online, and show Oregon as our residence, but I look forward to another couple years of beating back the California tax man.

I had fantasies of having duplicates of everything at both places and moving back and forth with a change of socks and toothbrush for the trip; in fact we load the Family Truckster to the swamping point before wallowing N&S.

Did get our house broken into down south while we were away, which was irritating.

Healthcare is a bit of a problem, we have Kaiser Permanente and had to sign up on the California KP plan when issues cropped up down south - the care was there, but the billing is confusing though I've confidence it will get sorted out. Dentists & hygenists N&S, emailing x-rays back and forth.

5-6 days on the road at a minimum driving back and forth with a cat who is None Too Pleased, working out accommodations that suit Hoteliers and Her.

All that said, we enjoy both places and are pleased to be where we are when we are there.

My two places are only 140 miles apart, but differ in elevation by 5,500 ft, so have totally opposite climate.

We maintain utilities at both places, in case we want to come up to spend the weekend, even in the winter, or particularly in the winter to watch snowfall. Having duplicates of household items is not a problem, however, there are often times when I look for some tool and wonder if I left it at the other place.

Money wise, it only costs double to have 2 homes. Well, not quite, since we have been spending more time down in the flat-land home, and it costs more for A/C cooling than the high-country home needs heating. Values are comparable, so insurance and RE taxes are the same. The high-country home needs more exterior maintenance due to the winter.

We do drive back and forth, and did not even have to bring socks and toothbrushes, only food if going up North. Sometimes we did not even bring food, and stopped at a town along the way for grocery shopping.

It's been enjoyable. It only costs money.

By the way, I saw that the OP is mighty young. He has time to decide.

 

[RunningBum]

Anyone who is ESR'd done this? My semi-income is already pretty well disconnected from geography and DW is working to get hers there, too.

I was telecommuting when I did this. I was full time for awhile, then part time.

 

[Ronstar]

Anyone who is ESR'd done this? My semi-income is already pretty well disconnected from geography and DW is working to get hers there, too.

I'm ESR'd and do this. Its easy when most of the job is email and the rest given to colleagues. For those that telecommute, working from a snowbird location is no different from working at home.

 

[fritz]

Anyone who is ESR'd done this? My semi-income is already pretty well disconnected from geography and DW is working to get hers there, too.

I have been doing part-time consulting work during our early retirement since we started going to Florida for January/February. As already stated - "working from a snowbird location is no different from working at home".

 

[RitaR551]

We spend seven months in our primary residence up north and five months in Florida in our little winter home. Our Florida home is a little 35 ft. Trailer with a Florida room. We pay lot rent of $275.00/month year round. We have friends who keep an eye on our northern home.

The monthly lot rent is somewhat offset by a much lower electric and propane bill for the North home. We found we used the equivalent of one 500 gal tank less to heat an empty house. the electric bill was cut in half. Our utilities for the Florida home are minimal. Propane last year was $25.00 total for four months and electricity was $11.00/month.

We have our mail (what little we get) forwarded.
Our Internet is put on vacation status rather than turned off. We pay a bit more than I like for Internet in Florida, but its "no contract" and we don't pay for cable tv. We stream anything we want to watch.

We fill up the cars less often in Florida. Everything is just closer. Up north we drive 10-20 miles to get anywhere.

Being more active and healthier in the winter is priceless.

 

[capjak]

Here are some folks that timeshare year round for the last 5 years:


Ron and Joan's Journey

Here is another couple that fulltime timeshare and rent their house. Trying to keep spending below 2500 month I believe:

Costs | http://fulltimetimeshare.com/blog

 

[imoldernu]

Whatever one chooses, i would strongly suggest testing it for a couple of years before making any financial commitments.

+1

The best advice of all!
After 23 years of snowbirding between IL and FL, that would be my first recommendation. We looked at 30+ Florida communities before buying, but even at that, we were lucky.
Can't count the number of people who came saw and bought in a community, only to sell in a year or two, and move into ours.
..........................................
Most newly retired couples come to Florida looking for Nirvana, spend a week or so looking, and then become overcome by a good sales pitch. Often that commitment is not easily reversible and results in extra expenses as well as sales or land rental (most mobile home parks) contracts that have escalation clauses. If choosing Florida, go over the Prospectus with a fine tooth comb, and a good lawyer. It's a legal document and very binding.

Most of the posters in this thread outline the good and bad parts of living in two places. I would add a few that meant a lot to us.

1. Be sure the community that you retire in to, is in a compatible socio-economic level... ie. we avoided "The Villages" as it was a little too "rich" for us. Not our lifestyle, though we go there weekly for dinner, dances or other functions. (my golf cart cost $2,000... some in The Villages cost $20,000+).

2. If considering rentals, consider how long you will be away from your full time home, and how many of those conveniences you will miss. Remember when you go, you have to bring whatever personal effects... clothes and household goods, that won't be there in the rental. Also, when you leave, you have to take anything you buy in the meantime, back with you.

3. No matter how you do it, before you decide to settle, spend at least a week, either living in the community, or going there during the day. Sadly, most people get with the realtor, and spend all the time looking at the house or mobile, and taking a walk through the clubhouse, (if there is one)... and they never spend the time talking with current residents... (Preferably the old curmudgeon at the end of the lane, who has a problem with everything.) Know the good and the bad.

4. Know that different locales in any state may be more or less costly. Check the statistics (income, housing value etc.) In Florida, closer to the ocean may mean the difference of as much as $10,000/yr... taxes, services, housing costs, entertainment etc.

5. Will going from a 2000 s.f. home to an 800 s.f. apartment or condo or mobile bother you?

6. Learn about Homestead Exemptions.
Homestead exemption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Over the retirement years, this factor can save tens of thousands, and it's important to understand how the laws work in each state, as you can only receive one homestead exemption.

7. Your choice of claiming citizenship in a state, can have big time effects on state taxes, house and car insurance, license and registration, healthcare choices, and legal issues.

8. Think about the future... the later retirement years, when travel is not so much fun, and being in one place becomes easier. Where will you want to be?

All in all, there's a big difference between being a snowbird for 3 to 6 months and spending a week in Disney or Vegas.

YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

...
All in all, there's a big difference between being a snowbird for 3 to 6 months and spending a week in Disney or Vegas.

Prior to buying my summer home in the high country of the same state, I flew up to Seattle to look for a home in the Puget Sound, particularly in Port Ludlow. I love the cool green space of the NorthWest (look at my screen name), and of course it beats the arid SouthWest in the summer. I thought that perhaps I would relocate there permanently once my children reached independence and we were fully retired. I do not think rain would bother me much. I am of a somber nature anyway, and drinking Cognac or coffee while listening to the music and watching the rain is a pleasure to me.

Then, returning home to mull over it some more, I realized that the logistics of maintaining two places would be more than I could handle. Additionally, while we were still working, there was no way I could travel back and forth to enjoy the 2nd home to make it worthwhile. So, we bought the 2nd home in the same state. That was 7 years ago.

Now that we are really free and can really get a 2nd home in the Puget Sound, the idea of travel between two far-apart homes and maintaining them does not appeal to me anymore. I have enough trouble with two homes only 2-1/2 hrs apart, as I have found out.

My current thinking is that an RV allows me to spend more time in places that I want to visit, compared to car roadtrips. And as I am not a fan of crowded city living, an RV works out just great to let me see more nooks and crannies of the US.

 

[Chuckanut]

2. If considering rentals, consider how long you will be away from your full time home, and how many of those conveniences you will miss.

+1

 

[Ronstar]

Great posts! Another thing to consider - How well does the snowbird location accommodate your hobbies/pastimes, etc ?

One problem I have in snowbirding is that I can't take some of my hobbies with me. I can't do woodworking or brew beer easily from our Arizona condo. Or yard work. So I had to find other hobbies in Az to fill my time. Not a big deal, but there is the initial hobby withdrawal if one is not prepared for it.

 

[Jack_Pine]

Great posts! Another thing to consider - How well does the snowbird location accommodate your hobbies/pastimes, etc ?

One problem I have in snowbirding is that I can't take some of my hobbies with me. I can't do woodworking or brew beer easily from our Arizona condo. Or yard work. So I had to find other hobbies in Az to fill my time. Not a big deal, but there is the initial hobby withdrawal if one is not prepared for it.

That's a great point. I do woodworking as well but that is not transportable. I am taking up photography, will have to look for more like that.

 

[Kroeran]

We snowbird Ottawa/Fort Myers. Parents snowbirded to Port Charlotte, grandparents to Daytona.

Canadians snowbirding face a few different wrinkles than Americans, mainly counting against the 6 month limit, which will all change if the immigration bill goes through. We have the Canadian Snowbird Association, which recommends Medipac for health insurance.

To reduce health insurance cost, be sure you are not on any meds you do not actually need to be on. When getting treatment, collect as much paperwork as possible, detailed billing and doctor's reports.

Keeping the northern house safe while we are away is a challenge, as she does not want to give up on-ground living and her dream house for a lock and leave condo. Others sell the city house and move into the lake cottage as primary residence, and are in Florida for the winter. Too hyper to be cottage people, so far.

Every door and window of this older house is screwed shut for winter. There is one way in through the garage with 3 locks to get through, including passcodes and medico keying.

A houseminder comes by only once a month. Pay attention to insurance requirements. We get away with this as we drain all water and turn off the main. His entry and exit is the main risk vector. Never give a relative, especially a teen or as yet unreliable youth, access to a sealed house.

The entire house and property is monitored by a $400 (not expensive) camera system that feeds 8 video channels through the internet to our devices in Florida or our phones on the road, live feed when we choose or email text alert if there is activity where there should not be any.

The Florida property is a lock and leave concrete block gated condo, hurricane grade windows. Condo owners insurance does not require houseminding in gated communities, but we have one anyway. We are not in a high risk flood zone, but we have flood insurance anyway.

Really smart money leases unfurnished and does not buy, but it worked out ok for us as we bought bank owned at the bottom...once in a lifetime opportunity. Increasingly worried about condo leadership as we head into builder handover.

Maybe read this material that I pulled together on another forum

Cape Coral/Fort Myers FAQ - MUST READ FOR NEWBIES! (Miami: rental car, low income) - Lee County - City-Data Forum

Worst thing for us cross border snowbirding is not being allowed to work in Florida and not being around long enough up north to work at anything interesting. Most early retired educated types seem happier if they can dabble a bit in part time contract work for the stimulation and interaction, gives the leisure time more meaning.

I am trying to get interested in pickleball and relax. If the immigration reform goes through I think we are going to try this new retiree visa, sell the northern house and try to live in one place, with trips out from the Florida base of operations in the worst months of summer.

If we can get down to one residence, my fantasy is a month in Italy in June, a month on the lake near the relatives in July, a month at Chautauqua in August (just discovered), otherwise Florida as our base playground.

The last dog died, so now we are more free to consider spending time in Europe, specifically Italy. Trying to convince her to do house swapping with the Florida condo, but need to learn how that works and if there is a window where Europeans want to go to Florida when we would want to be in Europe.

She does not like the idea of living in someone else's stuff, cooking and cleaning.

I believe property taxes are much better in Arizona than Florida.

 

[imoldernu]

The hobby thing can be important. For me, biking and computers and swimming and canoeing, all of which I found in our FL community.
As we were looking for a permanent full size home in FL (which we have, for now, decided against) we came upon a number of great retirement communities that offer literally hundreds of interest groups that work with great intensity. Ceramics, photography, travel, music etc, but the one that blew me away was one community that had a 4,000 s.f. woodworking building with hundreds of sophisticated tools... free membership... tools donated by retirees. In the same community there is a 2500 sf metalworking shop, replete with 10 different lathes, all types of welders and forges, etc. Enough to entice me, to really think twice about not moving in.

My favorite, in that same community was a (30 member) ultralight indoor remote control airplane/helicopter group, that meets weekly in the large indoor gym/clubhouse... and the second choice was the remote control sailing club. Would love to match up own antique 1m R/C sailboat with the newer racers.
For those contemplating "The Villages" in Florida, it is said that there are nearly one thousand different interest groups to choose from, including classes in Sanskrit.

Aside: Not all communities have these multi choices. In some of the older communities, the clubhouse is only open for special events. Our current community is so busy that all of the clubhouse function rooms are busy from 7AM to Midnight and later on the band/dance nights. For a while I had to move my own computer class into my home until a 2 hour block of time was available.

Bringing up the hobby part of retirement was a good idea. It is very important part of a happy retirement, especially for new retirees. A good way to fill in the gap that used to be taken by w*rk. After all, one can only contemplate one's navel, drink coffee and watch TV for so long without atrophy setting in.

 

[someguy]

We've been bouncing between suburban Chicago (house) and Scottsdale (condo) since 2002. We have yet to stay in Az longer than 2 weeks at a time due to DW's work. That will change soon.

Your plan sounds feasible to me. I cant address expenses in San Diego or San Francisco, but our condo ownership/utilities in Scottsdale is running about 7k a year.

Ronstar -- how are you managing a condo in Snotts er Scottsdale for $7K/year all in? Is there rental income offsetting some expenses? Any specific advice on Scottsdale -- that's an area of interest to DW and I.

Overall I'm assuming you are pretty happy with the situation?

RunningBum, Ronstar and others ESRed and snowbirding -- are you finding the additional cost of snowbirding is worth the hit to the full retirement date?

Others have made good points about hobbies and activities. For us, biking, hiking and just being outside in the sun are very important to us and nearly impossible in our primary location ~6mos a year. So, while renting 1-4 months some where else is appealing, there are some logistical considerations such as having two sets of (fairly expensive) road bikes and gear, car, clothes and home-office equipment. Obviously buying a second place prevents having to lug or rent that stuff, but also reduces flexibility. A hybrid idea we've kicked around is having a year-round storage unit, perhaps big enough to hold a cheap car, and each year we take the bikes, office stuff and some clothes to whatever rental we get.

 

[RunningBum]

RunningBum, Ronstar and others ESRed and snowbirding -- are you finding the additional cost of snowbirding is worth the hit to the full retirement date?

Yes, but my situation wasn't typical. I did it to stay close to my son during much of the school year when he moved away with his mother, while retaining the house I'd built for retirement. I actually came out a bit ahead by making Texas my primary residence (no state income taxes while I was exercising some of my stock options) and making a nice profit on a house I bought there. Most importantly I was able to keep a good relationship with my son so it'd have been worth it even if I took a hit. He went to college near the home I'd built so I'm back to one home now.

 

[kcowan]

We have been retired for 11 years. Living in Vancouver BC in a 3300 sq.ft. penthouse. It was the result of downsizing 16 years ago from big place. We have experimented with home swaps in San Diego and Toronto for a month at a time. We have also used vrbo to get apartments in Paris, Nice, Lucca and Rome for a month each.

In 2007 we bought our place in the sun and we now spend 6 months there. We rent out the penthouse for 6 months. Out total annual cost has dropped since buying. This is because the cost of living in Mexico is much less than in Canada. Based on the resulting annual savings, we can live forever! We do not rent out our Mexico place.

Our budget includes a month-long trip to Europe/Asia/South America-Africa each year. This year it is Vancouver Island, Galiano Island, The Okanagan and Toronto. So far the weather has cooperated!

 

[FIREd]

We have been retired for 11 years. Living in Vancouver BC in a 3300 sq.ft. penthouse. It was the result of downsizing 16 years ago from big place. We have experimented with home swaps in San Diego and Toronto for a month at a time. We have also used vrbo to get apartments in Paris, Nice, Lucca and Rome for a month each.

In 2007 we bought our place in the sun and we now spend 6 months there. We rent out the penthouse for 6 months. Out total annual cost has dropped since buying. This is because the cost of living in Mexico is much less than in Canada. Based on the resulting annual savings, we can live forever! We do not rent out our Mexico place.

Our budget includes a month-long trip to Europe/Asia/South America-Africa each year. This year it is Vancouver Island, Galiano Island, The Okanagan and Toronto. So far the weather has cooperated!

I think it's great that you are comfortable renting out your penthouse while you are down in Mexico. I currently live full time on the West Coast due to DW's work and my house in the south is rented out and I hate the feeling that strangers are living in this house and doing who knows what in there. Once we start "snowbirding", I think I would only allow friends and/or family to use our vacant property.

 

[obgyn65]

I still work so no snowbirding in my case. Things will change when I finally FIRE.

 

[RunningBum]

Once we start "snowbirding", I think I would only allow friends and/or family to use our vacant property.

I didn't even do this. All I needed was for someone to forget to turn the heat down, or not turn the water off, or leave a window open, and I could incur high utility costs or animals getting in. Especially when I left in late summer and wouldn't get back until winter was well underway, I did a lot to winterize the house and didn't want it undone. In a more moderate climate like Vancouver that wouldn't be such an issue.

 

[Ronstar]

Ronstar -- how are you managing a condo in Snotts er Scottsdale for $7K/year all in? Is there rental income offsetting some expenses? Any specific advice on Scottsdale -- that's an area of interest to DW and I.

Overall I'm assuming you are pretty happy with the situation?

RunningBum, Ronstar and others ESRed and snowbirding -- are you finding the additional cost of snowbirding is worth the hit to the full retirement date?

Others have made good points about hobbies and activities. For us, biking, hiking and just being outside in the sun are very important to us and nearly impossible in our primary location ~6mos a year. So, while renting 1-4 months some where else is appealing, there are some logistical considerations such as having two sets of (fairly expensive) road bikes and gear, car, clothes and home-office equipment. Obviously buying a second place prevents having to lug or rent that stuff, but also reduces flexibility. A hybrid idea we've kicked around is having a year-round storage unit, perhaps big enough to hold a cheap car, and each year we take the bikes, office stuff and some clothes to whatever rental we get.

The 7k was actually $7300 for 2012. I don't rent it out. I've since cut internet and phone so in 2013 it looks like:

$1300 re taxes
$2640 HOA dues
$300 gas
$1200 elect
$400 ins
$780 cable
or $6620 total

Scottsdale is great for your kind of hobbies. I do a lot of hiking in the McDowell Sonoran Preserve, run and bike through the neighborhoods, and bike to ASU campus in tempe via Indian Bend Wash Greenbelt. I have a hybrid bike and stick mainly to paved trails and sidewalks. There are a lot of roads with bike lanes for road bikers, but I'm sticking to the trails for safety.

Lots of good restaurants and shopping, movie theaters, spring training baseball, etc to keep yourself occupied. Housing seems to be picking up. Very, very hot in the summer sometimes 100-115 with max high at 120. No humidity. Hardly ever rains, but when it rains an inch there is flooding. Seems like they get 5 minutes of monsoon rains every day in late July - early Sept. Spring, winter, and fall are great. Some days in winter may get down to around 55, and it could snow at night, but doesn't stick. I've had run-ins with termites, scorpions, tarantulas, javelinas, and rattlesnakes - all freak me out because these are unheard of in Illinois.

I'm happy with the situation and will spend more time in Scottsdale once DW retires. I go around 8 - 9 times a year (since 2002) and average stay is 5 days. I needed this place to maintain my sanity through the winter, so it was worth the pushback in my retirement date. I still work 1 day a week, but DW still works full time, so my retirement date is subject to her retirement date more than my condo purchase.

My advice is to rent a place for a while first to make sure you like it, and if so, shop around and buy something if it suits your needs.

 

[someguy]

Ronstar, thanks, that is very helpful. Did you pay cash for your place? If so, do you account for any opportunity costs?

We will be doing exactly what you suggest and renting several places over several periods to see how we like it.

 

[fritz]

Ronstar --

RunningBum, Ronstar and others ESRed and snowbirding -- are you finding the additional cost of snowbirding is worth the hit to the full retirement date?

Others have made good points about hobbies and activities. For us, biking, hiking and just being outside in the sun are very important to us and nearly impossible in our primary location ~6mos a year. So, while renting 1-4 months some where else is appealing, there are some logistical considerations such as having two sets of (fairly expensive) road bikes and gear, car, clothes and home-office equipment. Obviously buying a second place prevents having to lug or rent that stuff, but also reduces flexibility. A hybrid idea we've kicked around is having a year-round storage unit, perhaps big enough to hold a cheap car, and each year we take the bikes, office stuff and some clothes to whatever rental we get.

Not sure that I understand your first highlighted comment. We retired at 59/57 and had allowed to explore this option in retirement. We have not regretted this decision. There are many in our community that snowbird and discussing this with them has given us good insight on how to pull it off. There are also many winter renters where we go (considerable population of Canadians).

Of the renters (1-5 months group, but mostly less than three) they prefer to rent as their rental costs are less than the option of ownership (and the related hassles). Of those we know who've purchased (5+ months), most are happy, but I know of a few houses/condos for sale also.

Like you, we love just being outdoors (in shorts in January/February) and always drag our clubs, but leave the bikes at home. Florida rentals along the beachfront in our location (we're 1/2 block off the beachfront) are not conducive to bike riding (a person could get easily thumped out where we are as roads leave a lot to be desired for safe bike travel). The car is loaded to the hilt, but you quickly learn what to bring to limit the load.

We've come to the conclusion that renting works out for us as we will probably relocate in time to another area even though there are pluses to familiarity of locale (why so many re-rent the same property every year). We've also rented in other areas for a month - trying out different areas, but find that Florida works out best (so far). We also travel on short trips during the year (week or so).

Our experience has been that most retirees we know grow tired of the snowbirding travel/hassles, and eventually settle in one of their chosen areas. Found this has been true since we owned our lakefront place in the 80's. Over the years, many sold out and others bought (this is how we accumulated so many boats). We bought from a retiree and sold to a retiree there. I see deteriorating health and age as the limiting factors. Some quit quite early and others keep-a-going. Two of our northern neighbors winter in Florida +/- 7 months out of the year. They are both talking about selling, but one will call Florida home (90's) and the other is staying up north (70's).

Not sure of our plans to stop or even purchase/relocate, but the "try before you buy" is highly recommended. Renting gives you a lot of flexibility especially when contemplating a purchase.

 

[Jack_Pine]

We rented in FL a few years before paying cash in a gated community at the bottom of the market. We feel we got a great deal. It has been super easy to rent for 6 months a year (actually to the same folks).

We rent by the week to family only during the summer for Disney trips.

We we retire and begin the snow birding thins we will no longer do the 6 month rental.........