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Old 07-06-2020, 08:26 AM   #61
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OP here. Just got back from picking up the doggie. I appreciate the stories as it has been quite informative, interesting, and humorous. The dog is fine now and on the mend so alls well that ends well. But, I did have a moment while waiting to pick him up. The story.....a lady came in with her 1 year old lab (tragically dead) in her car with 3 crying children. Turns out she was the wife of a deployed soldier who was housed with family at a local military base. The dog had just received his annual "shots" yesterday from the vet at the base. This morning the lady said the dog had just died (no understandable reason). She was at the clinic today with crying kids in tow to seek help getting rid of the body. The dog was stretchered in for a cremation but the lady's credit card was denied. My heart broke (as would yours).....so you know what i did....and thanked the lord for the privilege.

That's awesome. In the right time at the right place.
Must have been a great feeling
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Old 07-06-2020, 08:51 AM   #62
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Our pet insurance saved us many thousands. Younger lab ate neighbors (we think) fertilizer out of the bag. He ventured into her garage so not entirely sure. He vomited for 6 straight hours, a luminous vomit. We have a Vet Med school here at Univ. of Illinois. Our pet insurance covered 90% of the cost. He was < 2 years old at the time. He had several other accidents that year, ripped his dew claw completely out, swallowed a squeeky toy etc. All covered at 90%

This year his pet insurance cost ~ $600 because he's 5 yrs. old. Paid it!
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:25 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post
You're right that physical activity is important, and weight certainly is, too, but that's more related to diet than exercise.

You're mistaken when you say having an interest in proper, species-appropriate food for pets is "cultist." It's common sense. Dogs, like all animals, are evolved or designed to eat a certain diet (meat, essentially). Kibble ain't it. Kibble is full of processed grains, sugars, soy, and a bunch of chemicals. Dogs are not designed to eat that (neither are we, for that matter). It is basically junk food for pets. Cheap and profitable. Look into the history of the development of pet food sometime. It's an eye opener.

There may be some "good quality kibbles" out there, but they are the exception, and I'd have to read the ingredients before I believed it. It's easy to slap vet-approved labels on things and claim it has all the nutritional requirements, etc. All the kibbles I've seen have been filled with stuff I know isn't good for me, much less a carnivore. I'm not going to feed that junk to my friend.
All kibbles are not created equal. There are plenty of high-quality dry foods.

BTW, the trend toward "grain-free" foods is under review as possibly detrimental to the health of some dogs. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinar...cardiomyopathy
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Old 07-06-2020, 10:53 AM   #64
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Mr gray, yes grain free dog food is linked to heart disease even in young dogs. Many have died from it.
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Old 07-06-2020, 11:13 AM   #65
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IMO dogs are a bargain. For a few hundred dollars a year, and possibly a balloon payment late in their lives, I get a cheerful personal fitness trainer in my own home seven days a week, including weekends and holidays. I am certain that I would not exercise as much without these friends, would not find their same unconditional love from even the most devoted human significant other, and likely would not live as long (for both reasons). How much are extra months or years of life worth? Dogs are cheap at any price, and I will try to take care of mine as well as they take care of me.
Indeed. Well said. I spend money on my dog, and I am happy to do it. I get paid back immeasurably in things worth much more than money.

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All kibbles are not created equal. There are plenty of high-quality dry foods.

BTW, the trend toward "grain-free" foods is under review as possibly detrimental to the health of some dogs. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinar...cardiomyopathy
Yeah, I don't trust grain-free dog foods. The ingredients they substitute are often just as bad -- bunch of low-quality proteins, fillers, starches, sugars under various names, chemicals. Whatever meat is there still goes through the standard pet food process, which involves cooking the hell out of it, removing most of the nutrition, which they then attempt to add back in with supplements. Good luck with that. Just having grain-free on the label is no guarantee that it's healthy. I see it as mostly a marketing gimmick, to capitalize on people's understandable concerns about the negative impact of grains.

As for "plenty of high-quality kibbles," there may be some, but I doubt there are "plenty," they are certainly not the rule but the exception. I wouldn't believe it until I inspected the ingredient list.

I also think it's wise to be careful about what you read from research in this area, because much of it is funded by the pet food industry, who have a pretty rotten track record. Look into the study, examine it, don't just read a headline and assume you're getting the real story. Same goes for vets -- don't take their word as gospel. A lot of them just don't know. There are a lot of links between the pet food industry and vet education -- it's sort of analogous to the links between medical education and the pharmaceutical industry. A lot of what they get taught is filtered through a particular lens. Do your own research and your own thinking. This is yet another area where "expert opinion" is not to be taken at face value.
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Old 07-06-2020, 11:48 AM   #66
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Have a female Chocolate Lab. Her insurance started around $200 / year with $1000 deductible. Now she is 7 and it is $800 / year with $1000. This past year was the first time I went through my deductible and they had to pay a claim. She cut her pad and it got infected. Re-upping one more year, but then I think its over.
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:00 PM   #67
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Indeed. Well said. I spend money on my dog, and I am happy to do it. I get paid back immeasurably in things worth much more than money.



Yeah, I don't trust grain-free dog foods. The ingredients they substitute are often just as bad -- bunch of low-quality proteins, fillers, starches, sugars under various names, chemicals. Whatever meat is there still goes through the standard pet food process, which involves cooking the hell out of it, removing most of the nutrition, which they then attempt to add back in with supplements. Good luck with that. Just having grain-free on the label is no guarantee that it's healthy. I see it as mostly a marketing gimmick, to capitalize on people's understandable concerns about the negative impact of grains.

As for "plenty of high-quality kibbles," there may be some, but I doubt there are "plenty," they are certainly not the rule but the exception. I wouldn't believe it until I inspected the ingredient list.

I also think it's wise to be careful about what you read from research in this area, because much of it is funded by the pet food industry, who have a pretty rotten track record. Look into the study, examine it, don't just read a headline and assume you're getting the real story. Same goes for vets -- don't take their word as gospel. A lot of them just don't know. There are a lot of links between the pet food industry and vet education -- it's sort of analogous to the links between medical education and the pharmaceutical industry. A lot of what they get taught is filtered through a particular lens. Do your own research and your own thinking. This is yet another area where "expert opinion" is not to be taken at face value.

Spot on.
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:58 PM   #68
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You asked:

Personally, I would opt for the broiler bird life. Fighting cocks have to work and also get injured.
I wonder if they shuttle in a few of those broilers to get the fighters worked up....
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:55 PM   #69
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I wonder if they shuttle in a few of those broilers to get the fighters worked up....
I wouldn't doubt it. The stories about what dog fighters do is heartbreaking.
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:15 PM   #70
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Our most recent dog lived to over 14. He did some interesting things that we just didn't take him to the vet that should have killed him, but didn't. No boarding nor kennel fees because our neighbors begged to take care of him. No grooming fees because we just let his fur grow and cut it ourselves. He ate the same dog food for all the time he was with us, so that was cheap. He never got into any fights that he couldn't get himself out of without too much damage, so never a need for expensive vet care. Just the Trifexis and he was good to go.

So at least some dogs can be cheap and not cost a lot.
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:49 PM   #71
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We went to NC for our granddaughter's birthday and was gone for close to a week. (They do social distancing also, or we would not have gone.). Our son, who was watching our cats, called us and told us that our oldest cat, was walking in circles and bumping into things. We came home last night and I have been watching him closely today. It appears that he is totally blind now. He had a problem with one eye that was operated on when he was young and they told us there was not anything more they could do for that eye. He is still eating food, drinking water and eating his treats. I put up a gate so that he can not go downstairs, so that he can't fall. We brought up his litter box. He will be 19 years old next month. He has a vet appt tomorrow at 11:30am.

Our sixteen year old cat is on medication for her thyroid. She is doing well now that she is on the medication.

We had five cats and these are our last two cats. We are planning on being pet free after these two cats are gone. It is so sad to see them age and get sick.
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:06 PM   #72
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Indeed. Well said. I spend money on my dog, and I am happy to do it. I get paid back immeasurably in things worth much more than money.



Yeah, I don't trust grain-free dog foods. The ingredients they substitute are often just as bad -- bunch of low-quality proteins, fillers, starches, sugars under various names, chemicals. Whatever meat is there still goes through the standard pet food process, which involves cooking the hell out of it, removing most of the nutrition, which they then attempt to add back in with supplements. Good luck with that. Just having grain-free on the label is no guarantee that it's healthy. I see it as mostly a marketing gimmick, to capitalize on people's understandable concerns about the negative impact of grains.

As for "plenty of high-quality kibbles," there may be some, but I doubt there are "plenty," they are certainly not the rule but the exception. I wouldn't believe it until I inspected the ingredient list.

I also think it's wise to be careful about what you read from research in this area, because much of it is funded by the pet food industry, who have a pretty rotten track record. Look into the study, examine it, don't just read a headline and assume you're getting the real story. Same goes for vets -- don't take their word as gospel. A lot of them just don't know. There are a lot of links between the pet food industry and vet education -- it's sort of analogous to the links between medical education and the pharmaceutical industry. A lot of what they get taught is filtered through a particular lens. Do your own research and your own thinking. This is yet another area where "expert opinion" is not to be taken at face value.
I agree, you should do your homework.

My DD is a buyer for a pet store in Madison, Wis., where boutique foods are quite popular. She gave me a bag of kibble a couple months ago from a company called Open Farm. If you can spot a quality food with your nose, this has to be one, because it just reeked. The dogs loved it, though.

I like to switch foods regularly -- I'll feed something like Open Farm and switch off to a more thrifty brand like Kirkland/Costco.

There's a dog food company in Wisconsin called Fromm Family. they started out raising silver foxes and actually developed the first canine distemper vaccine. They make quality food.

I don't want to run down a list of other dry foods I consider "quality," but I also like some of the Canidae varieties and will feed them to my dogs on occasion.
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Old 07-06-2020, 08:41 PM   #73
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Has anyone been surprised with the cost of pet care? Ive got 2 small yorkies and their care (food, kennel, groomer. etc.) is far more than I would have guessed. Now it's time for me to rant......DW loves these dogies and I'll do just about anything for them. But, a few days ago one got ahold of an ADVIL and it caused his small 7 lb body to nearly shut down. Yesterday we had one vet come to the house and administered an IV to pump him with fluids. We went to an emergency vet later in the day and had the same treatment. (Mind you I am up to almost a grand by this point and the worry was kidney failure). The last vet said to take the dog to the weekend emergency animal hospital to be observed for the next 36 hours. The plan is to monitor hourly fluid levels etc. They explained this like an intensive care unit for dogs. Then they came into our waiting area and explained the plan and said it was going to cost $3000 on the low end or $4000 on the high end for this care. Well....what do you say other than GASP and do what you can to fix our fur baby. I suspect the doctors know you can't just walk out and leave the dog and it was way too early to throw in the towel. So...I forked over the AMEX and said at least send him back home groomed and well fed! My point is how does one budget and handle this situation and what do people do that don't have the extra funds to handle these situations. From my observation their were a few other families lined up for the same financial surprise.....your stories welcome!!
I feel your pain and agree. Emergency pet care is very expensive, especially if it involves acute kidney failure. Two months ago my 14 year old cat had acute kidney failure on a weekend (blood in urine, was afraid there may be a blockage) and I took her to the emergency animal clinic. Put on IV fluid therapy, antibiotics, lab work, several tests, heart monitoring, frequent blood pressure checks, and a sonogram that found a mass. The vet wanted to do a biopsy via open surgury (I said "no" due to the added trauma it would cause) The cat was in the clinic for 2 days, cost $3,600. During this ordeal I was reading all I could about feline acute kidney failure and a couple of articles noted that acute renal failure is one of the most expensive illnesses a pet can suffer. But I thought some costs were very excessive. Example: $35 for a 50 cent tablet of mertazapine (split in quarters) to stimulate appetite. Unfortunately the cat had to be euthanized a week later because her kidney numbers did not improve (my regular vet was seen) and she was in bad shape. Blood work to check kidney function, euthanization and cremation with ashes returned was reasonable and 10% of what the emergency clinic charged.

I was fortunate that I had the funds to cover the emergency clinic visit without it being a hardship and knew going in what it would cost. I also knew there were no guarantees.

During the course of my reading about pet acute renal failure, I read a few comments after one of the articles and a couple people ended up with bills on the order of what Franklin and I paid and they flat out could not afford it. They had no savings. They did not pay their rent that month and borrowed money from family. It was really sad reading those comments.
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:13 PM   #74
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I feel your pain and agree. Emergency pet care is very expensive, especially if it involves acute kidney failure. Two months ago my 14 year old cat had acute kidney failure on a weekend (blood in urine, was afraid there may be a blockage) and I took her to the emergency animal clinic. Put on IV fluid therapy, antibiotics, lab work, several tests, heart monitoring, frequent blood pressure checks, and a sonogram that found a mass. The vet wanted to do a biopsy via open surgury (I said "no" due to the added trauma it would cause) The cat was in the clinic for 2 days, cost $3,600. During this ordeal I was reading all I could about feline acute kidney failure and a couple of articles noted that acute renal failure is one of the most expensive illnesses a pet can suffer. But I thought some costs were very excessive. Example: $35 for a 50 cent tablet of mertazapine (split in quarters) to stimulate appetite. Unfortunately the cat had to be euthanized a week later because her kidney numbers did not improve (my regular vet was seen) and she was in bad shape. Blood work to check kidney function, euthanization and cremation with ashes returned was reasonable and 10% of what the emergency clinic charged.

I was fortunate that I had the funds to cover the emergency clinic visit without it being a hardship and knew going in what it would cost. I also knew there were no guarantees.

During the course of my reading about pet acute renal failure, I read a few comments after one of the articles and a couple people ended up with bills on the order of what Franklin and I paid and they flat out could not afford it. They had no savings. They did not pay their rent that month and borrowed money from family. It was really sad reading those comments.
I'm very sorry for your loss. You certainly did everything you could for her.
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:20 PM   #75
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I never miss an opportunity to promote tracking expenses to make data - based decisions about everything, including pets. I have a nephew and GF who have a couple pet rabbits, a cat and dog. He calls my sister regularly for help with bills and expenses, has zero emergency funds but has plenty $ when it comes to pet vet expenses. If they would track pet expenses, they would be in a position to decide how the next critter would fit in their annual budget vs “he/she is just so cute!”

We were a 2 dog family for years. After our beloved springer passed, we decided to go with our one remaining dogs, a rescue wiener. When he passes, we’ll do without and work on clearing our travel bucket a list. We’ll probably go back to our single wiener dog when our travel itch is scratched.

We do donate to rescues and shelters, help pay for extended family pet care and will do so as long as $ possible. However, I worry about what will happen when we are gone. Hence, encouraging tracking and data - based decisions regarding pet ownership for extended family.
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:24 PM   #76
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The dog got hold of an Advil you say...

That's code for someone put it in a place for the dog to consume.

It's not the dogs fault.

Be more careful in the future.
Yes, if you have pets, you have to find whatever you dropped out the medicine cabinet. I'd kind of forgotten that but it's back in front of my mind now. I had a friend who's dog found a dropped Aderall. It was a very expensive situation that involved a trip to the emergency vet.
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:40 PM   #77
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We went to NC for our granddaughter's birthday and was gone for close to a week. (They do social distancing also, or we would not have gone.). Our son, who was watching our cats, called us and told us that our oldest cat, was walking in circles and bumping into things. We came home last night and I have been watching him closely today. It appears that he is totally blind now. He had a problem with one eye that was operated on when he was young and they told us there was not anything more they could do for that eye. He is still eating food, drinking water and eating his treats. I put up a gate so that he can not go downstairs, so that he can't fall. We brought up his litter box. He will be 19 years old next month. He has a vet appt tomorrow at 11:30am.

Our sixteen year old cat is on medication for her thyroid. She is doing well now that she is on the medication.

We had five cats and these are our last two cats. We are planning on being pet free after these two cats are gone. It is so sad to see them age and get sick.
We were going to go cat free after our last rescue passed. That lasted about 2 months until someone was trying to place a found kitty. We've now had Gabby for nearly 6 years. Had to have a fuzzy kitty head to kiss! She's the smartest cat I've ever had and she's a treat to have around....except at 4:30 am.

She's been pretty cheap to keep. Our vet used to do low cost vaccines. Unfortunately, prices have gone up significantly in the last two years so I have been using the mobile vaccine service. They do a great job and the price is right.
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Old 07-06-2020, 11:13 PM   #78
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I think we have been lucky. We took our 2 Goldens (mostly Penny the Red) to the Emergency vet a few times. We came away saying we got off cheap! It turned out the Emergency Vet was cheaper than our regular Vet. That was when we switched vets. We had been regulars for years. He even came in on his Anniversary day off to euthanize our first Golden. But he was trying to retire & brought in a rotating staff that was actively "suggesting" more tests and procedures. We could hardly see the same vet twice in a row. This was like a 4 vet office. We spoke with the original vet about it but he didn't make any changes.
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:54 AM   #79
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It goes without saying that the dog is not at fault. OP never blamed the dog even implicitly. Yet you imply the OP "put" the pill in a place for the dog's consumption.

I take it you've never dropped a tablet on the floor without realizing it? All of us from time to time have been guilty of a small act of momentary carelessness. I'm sure that the OP, apart from the enormous vet bill, feels horrible about his pet's suffering.

Your scolding of the OP contributes zero to this discussion.
OP here ....yes it goes without saying so Thanks for the defense ...some peoples post just amaze me with their arrogance. Never ever suggested it was the dogs fault.
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:35 AM   #80
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My buddy is a 5 year old Miniture Double Golden Doodle F1B. He is more commonly known as either Knocklehead or Miki. I have had him since release from the breeder as he was a gift from my kids to "keep Dad busy" after DW passed. By far the best gift I have ever received (and I have owned several Dogs and Cats in my 75 years before Miki, all of which died a natural, at home, death). I use a full service Animal Hospital here that provide all medical serivces including Grooming (DD don't shed but need periodic haircuts) and boarding (about 7 days in 5 years). He is extremely healthy, never a sick day, never a remedial medical cost (except when his human panics). Last time I thought about it I estimated his cost has been well over $10K for 5 years. Sort of high since most estimates I have seen a well cared for dog will probably cost that amount over 10 years, not 5. The question is, with me being 80 this year, and he being 5, who checks out first - he probaly has the odds in his favor right now - he will be more than happy to live with my DD and SIL if that plays out.
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