The Hemingway Solution - almost

[DangerMouse]

The common denominator to most "good" deaths is acceptance. It gives boundaries to the sadness. Fighting to the end when futility is clear is often misdirected courage, and makes things much worse for patients and loved ones.

At least is seems that way to me.

RIT, think you have put it very well. I saw with both our friend and my father who also had cancer, once they accepted the cancer was going to win and the end was near, they almost gave everyone else permission to accept the inevitable. It became easier because no-one was focusing on the next course of treatment or what will the next scans show. The focus totally changed to being all about what would come next.

My father was a big supporter of euthanasia, he was also in a lot of pain with his pancreatic cancer. However, it was probably not up until the very end when he could no longer do anything for himself that he would have chosen that avenue. On the other hand, our friend who just died had very little pain and it was only at the end within the last couple of days that he was suggesting if euthanasia was an option he would have taken it.

 

[dex]

Pain is not terminal.
That seems to be my destiny.
I watched Mother decline.

I was taking a class and the person giving it was a psychiatrist. She told this story about her cancer. This was 20 years ago so I don't remember all the comments.
P would talk with her friend about her cancer and that she was afraid of dying, they would say things like,
- the treatments for cancer are amazing, you can fight this
- I've know you, you will not give up
- I feel you make it through this.
- I had a friend with cancer and through treatment they are doing well

P went to her psychiatrist counselor and told the counselor about her cancer and she was afraid of dying. The counselor said yes, you might die.

P said it was not until the counselor said that, that P was able to deal with her fear. Once P was given permission by the counselor to have the feeling that she might die, she was able to begin to deal with it. So, we (really professionals) should acknowledge people's fears and allow them to have the emotions associated with them as a step in their healing.

The counselor acknowledged P's fear and they were able to deal with it from there.

Generally, people can not deal with the person in need identifies as their issue so they deflect it with similar comments to the above.

Yes, your destiny might be that of your mother's. What are your thoughts about how you will deal with it? (The question is not intended to be answered here.)

 

[Khan]

I was taking a class and the person giving it was a psychiatrist. She told this story about her cancer. This was 20 years ago so I don't remember all the comments.
P would talk with her friend about her cancer and that she was afraid of dying, they would say things like,
- the treatments for cancer are amazing, you can fight this
- I've know you, you will not give up
- I feel you make it through this.
- I had a friend with cancer and through treatment they are doing well

P went to her psychiatrist counselor and told the counselor about her cancer and she was afraid of dying. The counselor said yes, you might die.

P said it was not until the counselor said that, that P was able to deal with her fear. Once P was given permission by the counselor to have the feeling that she might die, she was able to begin to deal with it. So, we (really professionals) should acknowledge people's fears and allow them to have the emotions associated with them as a step in their healing.

The counselor acknowledged P's fear and they were able to deal with it from there.

Generally, people can not deal with the person in need identifies as their issue so they deflect it with similar comments to the above.

Yes, your destiny might be that of your mother's. What are your thoughts about how you will deal with it? (The question is not intended to be answered here.)

I'll answer it here.

The good news is it doesn't kill you.

The bad news is it doesn't kill you.

And even the Oregon laws don't cover it.

 

[RonBoyd]

"We are all dying." -- William Wallace by Mel Gibson in "Braveheart"... but obviously said by someone else first (before Mel).

 

[calmloki]

I'm dying of cancer and have a few weeks left. This is the blog I'm writing. : reddit.com

By chance I ran across this post and some of his answers to commenters regarding his cancer and thoughts.

 

[REWahoo]

I'm dying of cancer and have a few weeks left. This is the blog I'm writing. : reddit.com

By chance I ran across this post and some of his answers to commenters regarding his cancer and thoughts.

Good grief.

I sure hope he doesn't waste what precious little time he has left reading through what appears to be mostly garbage. I'm continually amazed at how crude and insensitive some people can be.

 

[REWahoo]

Update: A sad, fond farewell to Mike Celizic

 

[Sarah in SC]

Thanks for the follow-up REW. So dang sad.

 

[Kroeran]

I think if I was close to the end and in pain, that would be the time to test out all those illegal drugs, seriously

knew a guy who got fed up with dying, and he refused liquids - took three days to go down...and amazing self control

 

[Orchidflower]

The real problem comes when the painkillers aren´t effective and you are not about to die soon enough, even if you are terminal......

Wasn't Javier Bardem in a Spanish movie with a right-to-die theme in it by Pedro Almodovar? I remember seeing it, but forgot the name. I think it was a true story about someone from your country, Vicente.

 

[obgyn65]

Hello DangerMouse - I am sorry to read about your friend. Please note "acceptance" of one's fate is also part of Kubler Ross model (feel free to Google this). It seems that your friend had reached that stage.

We had a friend who died last month of kidney cancer, he was only 45. Up until the end he fought it, however, when he developed ascites he knew it was time and you could feel him accepting his fate and letting go. I admire people who know when it is time to give up treatment and focus on quality of life rather than quantity.

 

[vicente solano]

Wasn't Javier Bardem in a Spanish movie with a right-to-die theme in it by Pedro Almodovar? I remember seeing it, but forgot the name. I think it was a true story about someone from your country, Vicente.

Yes Orchid. The film was based on a true story. The title is The Sea Inside. Director was Amenabar. The facts happened here in Galicia, where I live. A truly sad situation. Authorities tried half-heartedly -and unsuccessfully- to prosecute the people who helped the patient end his misery. Great film by our best director, IMHO.

 

[dex]

Wasn't Javier Bardem in a Spanish movie with a right-to-die theme in it by Pedro Almodovar? I remember seeing it, but forgot the name. I think it was a true story about someone from your country, Vicente.[/QUO

Yes Orchid. The film was based on a true story. The title is The Sea Inside. Director was Amenabar. The facts happened here in Galicia, where I live. A truly sad situation. Authorities tried half-heartedly -and unsuccessfully- to prosecute the people who helped the patient end his misery. Great film by our best director, IMHO.

I think Dr. Kevorkian will be hailed as a hero in the not too distant future.

 

[Orchidflower]

OK, Dex, you can put me down as one person who always thought Kervorkian was a hero and got a totally raw deal by the "authorities."

 

[dex]

OK, Dex, you can put me down as one person who always thought Kervorkian was a hero and got a totally raw deal by the "authorities."

I think he got the raw deal because he appeared to be crotchety mean old man, instead the compassionate person he was. I hope he gets the appreciation he deserves in the future. If Susan Sarandon was doing it there would have been more support for it.

Assisted Suicide will become more acceptable in the USA, first with diseases such as ALS, then Alzheimer and finally for people who say 'I just to darn old'.

Until then there is Switzerland.
Swiss Gov't Rejects Call To Ban Assisted Suicide - CBS News

 

[Zoocat]

The common denominator to most "good" deaths is acceptance. It gives boundaries to the sadness. Fighting to the end when futility is clear is often misdirected courage, and makes things much worse for patients and loved ones.

At least is seems that way to me.

That has been my experience as well, having been at my mother's bedside, at home, as she died of lung cancer. She was very accepting, had very little pain, and died in her sleep. My father tried to stave off his heart failure with a pacemaker and died 6 months later; he just fell unconscious as his heart stopped.

I hope that I can be brave enough to realize when medical treatments will no longer provide a longer quality of life and accept the inevitable.