Thinking of Moving

[ivinsfan]

Some of the residents we talked to also said it was the best thing they ever did. From listening to them, it sounded like they have done some very good things and obviously have made wise decisions along the way. They did talk about reduced stress and the easy socialization process.

I just have the feeling that they are mostly dividend investors.

Then again someone living there who has put that much time and money into it, most likely wouldn't even tell you if they didn't like living there.

 

[redduck]

And if they admit to 5% yearly who really knows how high the number could be, is there a cap written into the by-laws?

I don't know if there is a cap in the by-laws.

Then again someone living there who has put that much time and money into it, most likely wouldn't even tell you if they didn't like living there.

That occurred to me. But, that's not the sense that I got.

Anyhow, if the market keeps dropping, this place will just become yet another item on the list of faded dreams. That's assuming I can find the list.

 

[nwsteve]

I don't know if there is a cap in the by-laws.

That occurred to me. But, that's not the sense that I got.
.

During our CCRC visits, we found the established properties could provide the ACTUAL percent changes of annual adjustments. None got close to 5%. All the properties we visited tied the cost adjustment to actual changes in cost YOY at the property versus some global indicator like cpi.
Part of the trade-off of a spanking new property versus established operation. IMHO, fewer sources of surprises in locations with at least a 5 year performance history.
Given the relative scale and longevity of your decision, we tend to avoid the just-built communities. One possible exception is if the operator has a proven track record at other similar size communities.

 

[Sunset]

Seems like a bit of your interest is food-driven?

One thing I'd say you'd be wise to consider, Mr. Duck, is that you WILL get tired of that kitchen! So many meals cooked elsewhere will start to taste better.

How can I make this claim? Well, it is the difference between the first meal on the college meal plan and the last. The difference between the first meal on the 21 day cruise and the last. The started out top notch, and ended top notch. But YOU change!

I wonder if there's a similar arrangement were you just do UberEats. It might be more varied and the same or less money. And you might find that the occasional home-cooked meal is kind of a fun distraction.

This is sooooo true, I've noticed this and commented on it when I worked at various places. Some places had fantastic cafeterias with various food type stations. Everything was great at first, but after a year or two, the same 15 choices for lunch seemed to be a punishment.

 

[NW-Bound]

...One thing I'd say you'd be wise to consider, Mr. Duck, is that you WILL get tired of that kitchen! So many meals cooked elsewhere will start to taste better.

How can I make this claim? Well, it is the difference between the first meal on the college meal plan and the last. The difference between the first meal on the 21 day cruise and the last. The started out top notch, and ended top notch. But YOU change! ...

This is sooooo true, I've noticed this and commented on it when I worked at various places. Some places had fantastic cafeterias with various food type stations. Everything was great at first, but after a year or two, the same 15 choices for lunch seemed to be a punishment.

True story:

My aunt and her husband have taken a few world cruises lasting as long as 1 month. They said they and other passengers got tired of the ship meals, and wanted something different.

After a stop at some port, the next morning, they spotted a passenger in the ship cafeteria with a bowl of instant ramen noodle. Apparently he/she was able to procure it in port, then ask the crew for some boiling water.

They said some other passengers walking by also noticed the "desirable" bowl of ramen, stopped and asked "How did you get that?"

I have not been on a ship for longer than 1 week, but even on a longer cruise would think I could find something different to eat and not be craving for instant ramen.

 

[Teacher Terry]

We have been on 2 week cruises and did not get sick of the food. On port days you can eat in port for something different. When we got home Sunday from our last cruise DH wanted to know where his chef was.

 

[ncbill]

And if they admit to 5% yearly who really knows how high the number could be, is there a cap written into the by-laws?

Probably not.

My grandmother ran into that problem at her CCRC.

They were increasing the monthly fee a small percentage annually.

But then abruptly told her and other long-term residents something to the effect of "well, you joined 10 years ago with a monthly fee of X, but we're now charging new residents 2X, so we'll be adjusting your monthly fee to that higher amount at the beginning of the year."

 

[PawPrint53]

Our friends moved into a CCRC that they really enjoyed. The cost was about $4,500 per month for a nice sized house and included two meals a day, housekeeping, handyman services, etc. They didn't read the fine print, however, which said that after two falls the person who fell would have to go into assisted living. Then they'd be paying over $10k per month for two places. They discovered this clause after one fell. They moved.

 

[nwsteve]

Our friends moved into a CCRC that they really enjoyed. The cost was about $4,500 per month for a nice sized house and included two meals a day, housekeeping, handyman services, etc. They didn't read the fine print, however, which said that after two falls the person who fell would have to go into assisted living. Then they'd be paying over $10k per month for two places. They discovered this clause after one fell. They moved.

As your friends discovered, not all CCRCs are the same. There are 3 basics formats--Life Care, Contract, and Hybrid. Only Life Care allows you to move up the care continuum without a major increase in cost. In the property we are considering, the increase is limited to the additional meals (over Independent which has an "allowance") that are part of the higher level of care-3 meals/day. Of course, your entry fee in Life Care is usually more expensive than the other options since your are effectively prepaying LTC.
One of the Hybrid options we looked at allows 10 days at AL/Skill Nursing at no extra charge. The 10 days are not cumulative. The jump to higher levels of care are not minor as your friends discovered.
CCRC decisions really require lots of due diligence and verification of any representations.

 

[Scuba]

The business model for Lifecare CCRC’s is not sustainable IMO as people live longer and longer and healthcare costs go up. Several Lifecare CCRC providers have gone bankrupt already. I would be VERY cautious about buying into a Lifecare CCRC.

 

[nwsteve]

The business model for Lifecare CCRC’s is not sustainable IMO as people live longer and longer and healthcare costs go up. Several Lifecare CCRC providers have gone bankrupt already. I would be VERY cautious about buying into a Lifecare CCRC.

Made me look! Your comment above was in conflict with my earlier research indicating "true Lifecare or Plan A/Extensive" had few bankruptcies. See: http://www.expertseniorplanning.com/ccrc-bankruptcy-rare-event-darling-fodder-critics/
I think part of the challenge is how Lifecare & CCRC terms are used. Of late, I have seen those CCRC's offering a complete care regimen at a "fixed price" trying to limit the "life care" phrase to situations where there is contractual care with only minor costs addition. In the case of the CCRC label, any provider offering all three types of care (Life Care, Hybrid, Contractual) can and are marketed as a CCRC.
Nevertheless, the Caveat Emptors caution still applies. The above link provides a helpful checklist for the due diligence process. Also helpful to appreciating the differences is the discussion at this link, https://www.caring.com/articles/life-care-contracts-continuing-care-contracts
If you do due diligence and look at properties over five years old, I think the Life Care option can be a viable option over paying for LTC insurance.

 

[braumeister]

Nevertheless, the Caveat Emperor caution still applies.

Oh, I doubt if the Emperor has much to worry about. It's just us ordinary emptors who have to be careful.

 

[nwsteve]

Oh, I doubt if the Emperor has much to worry about. It's just us ordinary emptors who have to be careful.

Good catch--much better than my friendly auto correct. Fixed it
Thanks

 

[Scuba]

Made me look! Your comment above was in conflict with my earlier research indicating "true Lifecare or Plan A/Extensive" had few bankruptcies. See: http://www.expertseniorplanning.com/ccrc-bankruptcy-rare-event-darling-fodder-critics/
I think part of the challenge is how Lifecare & CCRC terms are used. Of late, I have seen those CCRC's offering a complete care regimen at a "fixed price" trying to limit the "life care" phrase to situations where there is contractual care with only minor costs addition. In the case of the CCRC label, any provider offering all three types of care (Life Care, Hybrid, Contractual) can and are marketed as a CCRC.
Nevertheless, the Caveat Emptors caution still applies. The above link provides a helpful checklist for the due diligence process. Also helpful to appreciating the differences is the discussion at this link, https://www.caring.com/articles/life-care-contracts-continuing-care-contracts
If you do due diligence and look at properties over five years old, I think the Life Care option can be a viable option over paying for LTC insurance.

Be careful - the article is about CCRC’s, not exclusively Lifecare CCRC’s. Most CCRC’s no longer offer Lifecare contracts. I agree that CCRC’s in general usually don’t go bankrupt, but that is because most of them don’t offer Lifecare contracts. I would still be VERY cautious about choosing a CCRC offering Lifecare contracts. Think about it - that CCRC is absorbing the risk of paying potentially huge costs in the future. What are their assets and how do they plan to fund this?

 

[nwsteve]

Be careful - the article is about CCRC’s, not exclusively Lifecare CCRC’s. Most CCRC’s no longer offer Lifecare contracts. I agree that CCRC’s in general usually don’t go bankrupt, but that is because most of them don’t offer Lifecare contracts. I would still be VERY cautious about choosing a CCRC offering Lifecare contracts. Think about it - that CCRC is absorbing the risk of paying potentially huge costs in the future. What are their assets and how do they plan to fund this?

Totally agree with the caution. The best advise I have seen on choosing a true Lifecare property is to request all the Audited financials-balance sheet as well as operating statements and be sure you or your advisor completely understands the financial health of the property.
We are seeing a lot of new properties finally coming on the market. Not all are by experienced operators. Personally, I would be doubly cautious with any property under five years.
With a new property, not only do you have the usual construction issues but also the risk, the operator may not fully understand the nuances of running a LifeCare operation.

 

[gayl]

Just read this. Is it a 55+ community or assisted living? Out here you buy a home / townhouse / condo in Rossmoor (55+ community) just like any other place and HOA / CCRC rules rear their ugly head. But 6k monthly fees for housing / food / etc sounds like assisted living. Are you emotionally ready for that?

 

[Al in Ohio]

It's not what I think, it's what the Adult Community Board thinks. But, to answer your question, "Probably not."




Yes, there's a very nice overpass a few mile away. You get a brand-new Montgomery Ward Refrigerator carton and $80 in coupons to El Pollo Loco all for $300,000 up front and $660 a month. Valet parking is included.



I asked about that. She didn't give me a full answer and I didn't pursue it as we were in a group and were just checking the place out. I would need to know a lot more about the finances (or someone representing me would need to know a lot more).



Yes, that's a lot of money not making me a lot of money.

That could be at least a 40,000 per year hit, or like paying another $3,500 per month the way I look at it.

 

[Al in Ohio]

We put my mother in such a place. We paid just over $200k security deposit for a 1 bedroom apartment and the $2050 rent included 20 meals monthly in the nicest restaurant I have ever seen. The chef was Dutch and the nightly meals elaborate.

If you later get sick, they have a step up assisted living unit. And when you need full nursing home care, they have that too.

After my mother suddenly passed, we got back 90% of the security deposit. Obviously the security deposit is to guarantee (1) high class tenants and (2) nobody spends all their money and sticks the landlord with whatever Medicaid pays.

Where was this at if I may ask?

 

[redduck]

Just read this. Is it a 55+ community or assisted living?... But 6k monthly fees for housing / food / etc sounds like assisted living. Are you emotionally ready for that?

It's a place to live where you start out healthy and end up unhealthy. When we were there we saw one person with a walker, maybe two people with canes and everybody else wearing Nike or Under Armour outfits and looking athletic. I wear Nike and Under Armour, so maybe I'm good to go.

 

[redduck]

That could be at least a 40,000 per year hit, or like paying another $3,500 per month the way I look at it.

OK, pretty soon we will be talking about real money. (Everett Dirksen)

I don't think the people living there spent much time being concerned about being on a budget, safe withdrawals or a $40,000 hit per year. Either they made lots of money, inherited a lot of money or have children who have lots of money and decided to take care of their parents. I guess there are other ways it can be done, but my best shot is the children. Maybe having a couple of more kids would increase my chances. Of course, they would have to marry very, very well--probably into the families that already live in this place. (In retrospect, perhaps it might have been wise for me to have spent more time on budgeting).

 

[bmcgonig]

OK, pretty soon we will be talking about real money. (Everett Dirksen)

I don't think the people living there spent much time being concerned about being on a budget, safe withdrawals or a $40,000 hit per year. Either they made lots of money, inherited a lot of money or have children who have lots of money and decided to take care of their parents. I guess there are other ways it can be done, but my best shot is the children. Maybe having a couple of more kids would increase my chances. Of course, they would have to marry very, very well--probably into the families that already live in this place. (In retrospect, perhaps it might have been wise for me to have spent more time on budgeting).

After all that you must tell us what the name of the place is? Pretty please?

 

[Scuba]

I have a pretty good idea where it might be ... is it in a coastal city not too far from LAX?

 

[bmcgonig]

I have a pretty good idea where it might be ... is it in a coastal city not too far from LAX?

No idea why these have to secret. Which one do you think it is?

 

[Scuba]

I’m wondering if it is Fountainview at Gonda in Playa Vista. Could be wrong, but this is a relatively new CCRC in a very nice area of West LA.

 

[bmcgonig]

I’m wondering if it is Fountainview at Gonda in Playa Vista. Could be wrong, but this is a relatively new CCRC in a very nice area of West LA.

Thanks. I'm always interested in these places and how/what they charge.

The ones I've seen normally offer two ways of paying the initial lump sum. 90% refundable OR somewhat less than half that but non-refundable. This place only offers the former. If you're not concerned about legacy then it's a steep price. The 90% also seems to incentivize you to move in as late as possible, whereas the other seems to incentivize the opposite. Interesting.