Understand now how death in family causes riffs

[ohyes]

Funny how the further away the BIL/SIL lives, the more expert they are at how things should be done for FIL/MIL.

My experience, exactly...and why i advise my DH to be careful with his words/"advice". We are 1500 miles away from his dad (90 yo). If we are not there to help as/when needed, stay quiet.

No matter how we do not like what is going on. Get up there and take care of it or shut up.

 

[ohyes]

To quote Shel Silverstein, "The wife told me when I could see my own ****, she'd be glad to look at it too..."

Big fan of Shel...never knew he said that. LOVE it!....Now, to work it into a conversation...

 

[sgfgrover15]

Lisa-sorry for the loss of your MIL and the drama that came with it.

When my mom passed dad did give me her jewelry (what little she had) without asking my brother if he wanted it. I had a piece set aside for him, but, with a son with addiction issues I now only have one piece left that I will give to my other son to use as an engagement ring down the road. I talked to our DD about this in length to be sure she would not be upset as she is the girl. Now dad has a live in and we have been informed there is nothing to leave us. So the talk is coming where Brother and I have to say okay so is funeral pre-payed, etc.? We don't care about the money but as we are moving out of state soon I would like details so that my brother isn't left with a mess.

In DH family is all drama all the time. I was fortunate that he bought my engagement ring without telling his mother. BIL not so smart so SIL got the grandmother diamond. His 4 sisters went ballistic and Christmas completely ruined. Years later MIL has asked everyone write their name on what they want. His sisters ran through the house like mad women. We didn't assign ourselves to anything, neither did BIL and SIL. We have our own stuff and don't want theirs. Problem with that is his mothers guilt and every time we visit we get to bring home "Stuff". We did get his grandmothers china and crystal. He took care of her in his late teen years and she made sure it went to him. Not without resentment from MIL and the sisters. His folks will leave a decent inheritance for all the kids which we have decided to put into trust when the time comes for our children to help them down the road.

Family is scary business and the few friends I have with just truly great family relationships I am always so jealous.

 

[imoldernu]

Trust is so hard to come by.

Family- Two brothers, two sisters.

One brother... the most conscientious, passes away, but had the foresight to prepare an ironclad will, with the lawyer recommended by his bank, who would also be the executor, to avoid any hard feelings among the heirs. the inheritance "split" was to be equal... three ways.
So far,so good. A simple will, all debts paid. Nothing pending.

#1. Bank lawyer... Delay, delay , delay.... for 2 1/2 years. $1Million in liquid assets held by the bank but giving interest @2% when the market (even money markets) was paying 7% to8%.

#2. Surviving brother was a friend of the lawyer, and would inherit the home, value to be included in the monetary settlement. He was also a friend of the real estate appraiser who valued the home @ $130K, even though the deceased brother had paid more than $300K three years before.

#3. One sister was ascribed the mahogany bedroom set which was 1 year old... and for which deceased brother had paid $1500... Assessed at $5000 for ascribing estate $value (remember... to be evenly split).

#4. Automobile ascribed to other sister... three years old. Book value $10,000, assessed @ $19,000.

much more, but if you do the math, you can see where the "even split" would end up, and the importance of the executor/lawyer... especially one affiliated with a bank.
..........................................
We stood on the sidelines, and watched in horror.

 

[2B]

#1 - time to question him on eternal delay with the possibility of getting a lawyer to speed the other lawyer forward. There's always official complaints.

#2 - demand a second, independent appraisal.

#3 - decline furniture. Exclude for calculations.

#4 - decline auto. Exclude for calculations.

Your brother is a pig. Ignore him after this is over.

Trust is so hard to come by.

Family- Two brothers, two sisters.

One brother... the most conscientious, passes away, but had the foresight to prepare an ironclad will, with the lawyer recommended by his bank, who would also be the executor, to avoid any hard feelings among the heirs. the inheritance "split" was to be equal... three ways.
So far,so good. A simple will, all debts paid. Nothing pending.

#1. Bank lawyer... Delay, delay , delay.... for 2 1/2 years. $1Million in liquid assets held by the bank but giving interest @2% when the market (even money markets) was paying 7% to8%.

#2. Surviving brother was a friend of the lawyer, and would inherit the home, value to be included in the monetary settlement. He was also a friend of the real estate appraiser who valued the home @ $130K, even though the deceased brother had paid more than $300K three years before.

#3. One sister was ascribed the mahogany bedroom set which was 1 year old... and for which deceased brother had paid $1500... Assessed at $5000 for ascribing estate $value (remember... to be evenly split).

#4. Automobile ascribed to other sister... three years old. Book value $10,000, assessed @ $19,000.

much more, but if you do the math, you can see where the "even split" would end up, and the importance of the executor/lawyer... especially one affiliated with a bank.
..........................................
We stood on the sidelines, and watched in horror.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

After reading some of these horror stories, it's probably just easier to tell your parents that you don't want anything other than the love they have always given you, and perhaps some of their rapidly dwindling time on this earth to spend with them. The rest is just stuff. Love and the memories are more valuable than gold.

All reminds me of the Toad the Wet Sprocket song "Walk on the Ocean"

Back at the homestead
Where the air makes you choke
And people don't know you
And trust is a joke
We don't even have pictures
Just memories to hold
grows sweeter each season
as we slowly grow old

 

[aja8888]

After reading some of these horror stories, it's probably just easier to tell your parents that you don't want anything other than the love they have always given you, and perhaps some of their rapidly dwindling time on this earth to spend with them. The rest is just stuff. Love and the memories are more valuable than gold.

^^^ Probably some of the best advice in this thread so far.

 

[rodi]

^^^ Probably some of the best advice in this thread so far.

Agreed!

 

[imoldernu]

Trust is so hard to come by.

Family- Two brothers, two sisters.


..........................................
We stood on the sidelines, and watched in horror.

Oops... not my family... but best friend...
We had no inheritance except for 8K from MIL... and very grateful for that!

 

[HFWR]

Big fan of Shel...never knew he said that. LOVE it!....Now, to work it into a conversation...

Think I have an mp3 version of an old cassette tape recording from way back, buried on the hard drive at home. But here's a slightly sanitized version by Bobby Bare; no version by Shel on youtube...

 

[BellBarbara]

Oh gosh, I have seen some of this. DH's family had one fly in the ointment, the only sister who believed because she was the girl, should get any belongings she wanted - including expensive jewelry. DH picked out a few inexpensive pieces (topaz) as it is his daughter's birthstone. The sister went postal over these inexpensive pieces - for years. Now she is passing the jewelry on to DH's daughters (sister had no kids) and looking like the good guy. haha She even gave a piece of her mom's jewelry to my DH's EX-wife. The Ex had enough sense to pass it on immediately to one of the daughters.

My sister has issues around money - she has plenty, but is the kind of person who will pick up a 1.19 item for you and give it to you with an adding machine tape attached to remind you to pay her back. So when my mom had dementia and most of the care fell to her (she has never worked, and was local) she paid herself to visit her. She paid her kids to visit too....it made my husband mad. My mom had a trust so it was all pretty easy when she died but my sister asked me for 18K (in cash not reported) for managing he estate. My DH was super angry - I told her I would send her 5K. She had already kept a lot of stuff and not included it in the valuation of the estate like my mom's car, jewelry, etc.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Oh gosh, I have seen some of this. DH's family had one fly in the ointment, the only sister who believed because she was the girl, should get any belongings she wanted - including expensive jewelry. DH picked out a few inexpensive pieces (topaz) as it is his daughter's birthstone. The sister went postal over these inexpensive pieces - for years. Now she is passing the jewelry on to DH's daughters (sister had no kids) and looking like the good guy. haha She even gave a piece of her mom's jewelry to my DH's EX-wife. The Ex had enough sense to pass it on immediately to one of the daughters.

My sister has issues around money - she has plenty, but is the kind of person who will pick up a 1.19 item for you and give it to you with an adding machine tape attached to remind you to pay her back. So when my mom had dementia and most of the care fell to her (she has never worked, and was local) she paid herself to visit her. She paid her kids to visit too....it made my husband mad. My mom had a trust so it was all pretty easy when she died but my sister asked me for 18K (in cash not reported) for managing he estate. My DH was super angry - I told her I would send her 5K. She had already kept a lot of stuff and not included it in the valuation of the estate like my mom's car, jewelry, etc.

You do have to wonder why so many people are fixated on "fairness" that they'll alienate family members over a few dollars (or few pieces of inexpensive jewelry). I suspect that it has more to do with childhood memories (i.e., repressed feelings) over being treated poorly decades earlier. Once someone passes away, the decedent can't control what happens to their stuff, so it's open season to remedy some ancient grudge - one that NO ONE remembers (if it ever happened at all).

To quote WOPR (aka Joshua) from Wargames - "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

 

[robnplunder]

My sister has issues around money - she has plenty, but is the kind of person who will pick up a 1.19 item for you and give it to you with an adding machine tape attached to remind you to pay her back.

There are people who do others "favors" and will expect to be returned the favors. The problem with some of them ... they don't remember how small (or even unwanted) their favor was and expect a lot more in return as if they deserved it. One of my siblings is like that.

This thread reminds me of 2013 movie, Nebraska.

 

[BellBarbara]

You do have to wonder why so many people are fixated on "fairness" that they'll alienate family members over a few dollars (or few pieces of inexpensive jewelry). I suspect that it has more to do with childhood memories (i.e., repressed feelings) over being treated poorly decades earlier. Once someone passes away, the decedent can't control what happens to their stuff, so it's open season to remedy some ancient grudge - one that NO ONE remembers (if it ever happened at all).

To quote WOPR (aka Joshua) from Wargames - "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

This totally makes sense to me now that you said this. DH was always mom's favorite, but only because he was a very sick child growing up (severe asthma and allergies requiring a lot of hospitalization). I can see how his sister was annoyed by this. It was stupid though, they did not talk for 10 years over these topaz pieces. And in fact, sister threatened OlderBrother with taking DH to court to get these pieces back. She didn't of course.

One thing I learned when we set up our trust is to earmark in documentation exactly who gets what.

 

[BellBarbara]

There are people who do others "favors" and will expect to be returned the favors. The problem with some of them ... they don't remember how small (or even unwanted) their favor was and expect a lot more in return as if they deserved it. One of my siblings is like that.

This thread reminds me of 2013 movie, Nebraska.

I have not seen that movie, I need to. My sister has personality disorder, for some reason she feels she is always the one doing what others want, when none of use feels she is. Honestly, I would have no contact with her if not for the fact that she is all I have left and I want to be involved with my nephews.

 

[MRG]

Sometimes these span generations. My DF, Uncle were upset because their sister(an Aunt I never got to really know) inherited some prime property.

DM, DF wishes were to divide their estate equally between their children. This was fine until the last year DF wanted to give one sister more as she was the care giver. When the caregiving sister heard of his plan she refused "I'm not playing our Aunt". The rest of the siblings would have been fine, but there was no way she was replaying the last generations mistakes. I'm grateful for the siblings I have.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[2B]

Sometimes these span generations. My DF, Uncle were upset because their sister(an Aunt I never got to really know) inherited some prime property.

DM, DF wishes were to divide their estate equally between their children. This was fine until the last year DF wanted to give one sister more as she was the care giver. When the caregiving sister heard of his plan she refused "I'm not playing our Aunt". The rest of the siblings would have been fine, but there was no way she was replaying the last generations mistakes. I'm grateful for the siblings I have.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

I would support the case for compensation for the caregiver. My DW was the caregiver for her parents. SIL was full of advice but wouldn't inconvenience herself to do anything except visit occasionally. My wife quit her job to be available and do what needed to be done. The estate was split equally except we took a few more pieces of their furniture than SIL. The pieces weren't worth very much. Most possessions were sold in an estate sale.

My sisters were the caregivers to my parents. I was in no position to be as involved as they were. Neither gave up paid employment but I know they ran themselves ragged in the final months. They were more concerned about me getting a share of the "stuff" with my brothers sacking the condo like the old furniture was worth anything. The little bit of money was split evenly. My one sister did appropriate the 10 year old car my father had. Her 14 year old car died during the caregiving and she doesn't make very much. I would have wacked my brothers on the head if any of them said anything about it being "unfair."

If your aunt's "prime property" was for compensation for caregiving, it's not a problem to me. If the parents felt she needed "more" to make up for a poor financial situation, then it's more open to discussion. If the aunt manipulated for her "prime property," it makes sense for the brothers to be pissed.

As for history, I was told about my great-great grandmother changing her will on her death bed leaving it all to her youngest (lawyer) son. He drew up the will and had her sign it. It was supposedly a significant estate. The will disenherited the other nine siblings. Even after all this time, the story gets told again.

 

[BellBarbara]

I think compensating caregivers is critical and only fair.