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Old 03-11-2020, 12:08 AM   #2881
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Where I am, there is a city code requiring an anti-siphon device on all external water outlets where a garden hose is connected.

If there is a check valve on the main line coming from the street, then it must be built-in to the meter. There is no separate check valve that I know of. Homes here also do not have an expansion tank.
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Old 03-11-2020, 12:24 AM   #2882
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[QUOTE=ERD50;2384541]While of course they disabled the safety valve, and had to have also disabled the thermostat to do this, I wonder if there is something else going on for more drama?

They mention 300 PSI. At that pressure, water boils at over 400 F. Can you get the water that hot to explode?

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/b...ter-d_926.html

I really wonder if that in addition to everything else, they also only had a couple gallons of water in the water heater. It would be easier to heat that small amount of water to boiling, and the space above filled with compressible steam would capture that huge amount of kinetic energy. Water itself is basically in-compressible, so if it were filled with water, there would not be that "wound up spring" effect of stored energy.

When they pressure test tanks, like for CO2 or Nitrogen, or even home plumbing, they are filled with water for that reason. If they filled them with compressed air, you have a bomb. But with water, you get a leak, and it's done. There is very little stored energy.

To get your head around that, think how long it takes to fill a completely empty tire from a compressor running on a standard outlet, up to 30 PSI. It might take several minutes, and that means all the energy of that motor running for several minutes is stored in that tire.

Now imaging that tire was 99% filled with water, but not under any pressure. It would only take a few seconds for that compressor to pump that 1% remaining space up to 30 PSI. So it has very little energy stored in it.

One comment theorized that it was the very hot water leaking out when it exploded that suddenly turned to steam at atmospheric pressure. That could be, but that would just shoot steam on the outside the tank, I don't think it would work to propel the tank like a rocket?

Some other comments also mentioned that something else in the house would probably fail before 300 PSI, relieving the pressure in a less dramatic way (washer hot water line? Dishwasher line?).

That said, I'm a little surprised that they don't put a second, simple fail-safe on water heaters. If you look at a 'can style' electrolytic capacitor, you'll see an "X" stamped in the top of the can. If pressure builds up in a capacitor like that, those weak spots at the "X" will tear open, and keep the thing from exploding. CO2 tanks have something similar, a fitting with a little copper disc with an "X" that is designed to blow out before the tank limit is reached. Kind of like a fuse.

But yeah, don't over ride your T&P valve! It's there for a reason.

-ERD50[/QUOTE

When the water in the tank is above the atmospheric boiling temperature and the tank ruptures, that water now exposed to atmospheric pressure violently turns to steam all at once. Boom. They don't pressure test tanks with water that's superheated.
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Old 03-11-2020, 06:08 AM   #2883
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Anti-siphon valves have been required in our area for decades. When I was employed in a hardware store in my teens in the mid- 70's, T&P valves were 175 psi. T&P valves sold today are now required to be 150 psi, and usually require an expansion tank to prevent faucet leaks. When the water heats up in the tank, and the anti siphon valve works, it expands and causes drippage at the closest faucet, as those little springs are a lot weaker than 150 psi.
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Old 03-11-2020, 10:35 AM   #2884
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+1

Additionally, in real life, if the water pressure inside the heater gets higher than pressure of the mains (40 to 50 psi), would it not push the water and steam back out to the pipe in the street? Eventually, the heating element would stop being submerged in water, and it burns up.
As others said, there may be a check valve - but I don't think that's code everywhere, and may be more recent with older homes grandfathered?

And yes, if you have a check valve, you really should have an expansion tank. Water expands when heated, and in a closed system there is nowhere for that pressure to go. It's causing stress on your tank and plumbing. I'm on a well, and those always include an expansion tank for the well, so that serves the purpose.

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When the water in the tank is above the atmospheric boiling temperature and the tank ruptures, that water now exposed to atmospheric pressure violently turns to steam all at once. Boom. They don't pressure test tanks with water that's superheated.
That was mentioned in the comments, and makes sense to me. What I'm not sure of though - would that cause the water heater to act like a rocket? It seems to me that would be occurring outside the tank? But I guess if the bottom is the weak point, as it blows, the pressure is reduced there, causing the transition to steam and that expansion would propel the tank?

We need one of those high speed cameras to analyze this!

-ERD50
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Old 03-12-2020, 01:47 PM   #2885
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Over the last few weeks my Mr. Coffee Junior was having problems pumping the last 1/2 cup of water through its system and into the pot. I was looking at replacement machines, when I hit upon the idea of simply running it through several cleaning cycles.



I popped in a cleaning tablet and let it run. Then I ran/rinsed it 3 times with clear water. It now pumps water like a champ and still makes a fine cup of coffee.
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Old 03-12-2020, 02:15 PM   #2886
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Over the last few weeks my Mr. Coffee Junior was having problems pumping the last 1/2 cup of water through its system and into the pot. I was looking at replacement machines, when I hit upon the idea of simply running it through several cleaning cycles.



I popped in a cleaning tablet and let it run. Then I ran/rinsed it 3 times with clear water. It now pumps water like a champ and still makes a fine cup of coffee.
As I have only used a vinegar and water solution to clean my coffee makers what are these tablets you use?
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:07 AM   #2887
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As I have only used a vinegar and water solution to clean my coffee makers what are these tablets you use?

I bought a large jar of tablets from Amazon a few years back. For about 2x the price of eight fancy tablets put recommended by the coffee pot makers I got this jar of 100.

They are:

URNEX Cafiza E31 tablets
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:56 AM   #2888
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Homeowners are allowed to do their own installations and plumbing. In reality, they're going to do it anyway so trying to regulate that is foolish. And if it blows up or asphyxiates them, that's further proof some people exist to serve as examples to others.

Here's an example from the Water Heater Rescue Closet of Horrors, a site I stumbled across in my quest for information about water heaters. Anyone who knows even a little bit about water heaters will just shake their head about it. They have other examples just as bad.
My new water heater has that pressure/temperature safety valve in a different position. The old one was on top. The new one is on the side and as installed, the gas supply pipe runs vertically about 1/2" from the top of the valve. You can still operate the test lever, but it might not go all the way to the straight up position. I don't think the valves safety operation is restricted. I couldn't find any information about clearance above the valve. It's probably alright but I don't like how it looks. I just tried the lever. It goes most of the way open but not far enough to the over center position to stay open if you let go of it.
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:38 PM   #2889
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My new water heater has that pressure/temperature safety valve in a different position. The old one was on top. The new one is on the side and as installed, the gas supply pipe runs vertically about 1/2" from the top of the valve. You can still operate the test lever, but it might not go all the way to the straight up position. I don't think the valves safety operation is restricted. I couldn't find any information about clearance above the valve. It's probably alright but I don't like how it looks. I just tried the lever. It goes most of the way open but not far enough to the over center position to stay open if you let go of it.

When I drain my water heater in addition to opening up a hot water faucet in the house I also need to keep the pressure relief valve open so that a good vacuum is created and the tank drains with a good flow. It would be a hassle to have to stand there and hold it open while the tank drains, it can take awhile. Probably could create some kind of jig to hold it open.
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:52 PM   #2890
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When I drain my water heater in addition to opening up a hot water faucet in the house I also need to keep the pressure relief valve open so that a good vacuum is created and the tank drains with a good flow. It would be a hassle to have to stand there and hold it open while the tank drains, it can take awhile. Probably could create some kind of jig to hold it open.
Good point. I didn't think about draining the tank. I just took another look at it. It might help to file the lever a little thinner. It just needs to move a little bit more to latch open. It could look bad to an inspector if it's mangled, but it could probably be bent a little, or shortened.

I was looking at this the wrong way. It would be a big job to move the black pipe gas pipe. It wouldn't be so hard to move the whole water heater a couple inches. I'm decent at working with the soldered copper water pipes. I can fix this if I decide to.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:20 PM   #2891
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First tenant repair call of the year; noisy dryer. After making sure she wasn't cleaning bricks, I took the dryer apart and determined it was the drum rollers. I put the the dryer back together, went home and ordered the parts, $30. She can run the dryer until I get the parts, cost me an hour, but had to get out to get a fish sandwich at church. I'll bottle six gallons of wine this evening.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:48 PM   #2892
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Good point. I didn't think about draining the tank. I just took another look at it. It might help to file the lever a little thinner. It just needs to move a little bit more to latch open. It could look bad to an inspector if it's mangled, but it could probably be bent a little, or shortened.

I was looking at this the wrong way. It would be a big job to move the black pipe gas pipe. It wouldn't be so hard to move the whole water heater a couple inches. I'm decent at working with the soldered copper water pipes. I can fix this if I decide to.
Of the 3 choices, I'd consider altering the lever a little to allow it to work properly, perhaps it just needs to bending of the end tab.
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:07 AM   #2893
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Fixing my low voltage yard lights... had to replace a number of bulbs in the back yard and 4 lights fixtures in the front so far... the ones in front I could not get open to replace the bulb but the new LED lights are much brighter and far less electricity...


Got 1 more bulb and 2 more fixtures...


OHHH, almost forgot... the timer was getting stuck where it would not turn on or off... used a bit of silicone spray and turned the clock a few times... did NOT work... so was manually turning on lights for a few days.... well, now it works!! Do not be quick to buy a new one.
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Old 03-15-2020, 07:08 PM   #2894
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I bought a large jar of tablets from Amazon a few years back. For about 2x the price of eight fancy tablets put recommended by the coffee pot makers I got this jar of 100.

They are:

URNEX Cafiza E31 tablets
Just seen this, thanks.
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:16 AM   #2895
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I built a very large deck outback 8 yrs ago. I have noticed how the pressure treated wood seems to rot way too much compared to my older deck I had. I am finding my main supports are rotting on the edge and the top boards are coming loose due to the screws no longer having solid support. I spent the last few days removing bad boards and adding fresh wood to the supports. When I am finished with that I will be stripping and re-staining with TWP100. I figured with the virus and all, I should have plenty of me time.
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:28 AM   #2896
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I built a very large deck outback 8 yrs ago. I have noticed how the pressure treated wood seems to rot way too much compared to my older deck I had. I am finding my main supports are rotting on the edge and the top boards are coming loose due to the screws no longer having solid support.
Sounds like you got a batch of wood with defective pressure treatment. I built a 700 SF deck 21 years ago and the supports are still in good shape. I had to replace the decking after 15 years due to UV damage from the sun, but the underlying structure was, and still is, holding up well.
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:40 AM   #2897
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I built a 12' x 20' shed 24 or 25 years ago with a galvanized metal roof.
The metal had got pretty rusty and had some damage from Hurricane Michael. I removed the old metal, replaced a few boards and installed new better metal.

As a bonus, my wife picked up all the metal as scrap!

Our neighborhood had a lot of new metal roofs installed, I think someone made a mistake on one house and they took a bunch of 17 foot pieces and cut them in half so they fit in the dumpster. My wife (with endless energy) picked about twenty, 8' pieces from the dumpster.
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:53 AM   #2898
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A couple of weeks ago I replaced some rotting trim on the 12 x 20 shed I built 15 years ago. Used pressure treated wood this time, but hadn't gotten around to painting due to the wet weather we've been having.

Recent events resulted in my oldest grandson, a college Sr, returning home to finish up the semester on-line and losing his part time job. I hired him to paint the shed, so he will be over later today to get started. His grandma and I will sit on the deck, 30 ft away, and visit with him while he works.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:40 AM   #2899
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Sounds like you got a batch of wood with defective pressure treatment. I built a 700 SF deck 21 years ago and the supports are still in good shape. I had to replace the decking after 15 years due to UV damage from the sun, but the underlying structure was, and still is, holding up well.

I had a smaller 20x20 deck in the same spot, I put in 25 yrs ago. That wood held up beautiful. When I pulled it up to build this new one I gave my son all the old wood. He has it in his back yard and its still in good shape. Not sure when they changed the treatment away from arsenic but these newer boards don't seem to last like the old stuff.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:20 PM   #2900
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Replaced bad dc connector on old video monitor. With RCA connector and misc screws from junk box.
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