Am I digging myself deeper into a hole?

[panacea]

Sounds like you had a start similar to mine so I'll share my path (as much as I hate to relive it) in hopes that it'll help you somehow.

Didn't know what I wanted to do after high school so went to UW-Madison for a Psychology degree. Decided toward the end of my 4 years that I didn't like psych but finished up with no plan for my future. Tried a small business that involved sales and recruiting (sort of an AMWAY thing) and hated it and failed at it. Sold cars for 2 years making about $30,000 / yr to dig my way out of debt. Hated that too but eliminated my debts. Decided that something business/finance could be interesting so started on my MBA at night while I sold cars... started a family and decided I better get off the commission pay structure and landed a lousy $22,000 salary job selling office equipment. Kept going to school and decided that retail banking could be a good resume builder or at least an improvement over the path I had been following so far. Didn't want to start as a $9/hr teller so I watched the ads for almost a year before I found a bank that was willing to hire and train mortgage lenders and also paid a salary. Increased to around $40k and finally felt like I had something useful to put on my resume. Got comfortable with mortgages and moved to a commission lending position with another bank and increased to over $90k. Got nervous with the unpredictability of interest rates and applied for a salaried business banking position with the bank for a pay cut... but better exposure and long-term opportunity. Finished my MBA after almost 6 years of part-time study. Moved around in banking, moving up in positions and titles and pay and eventually ran into a fee-only financial planner that was close to retirement. Got my CFP while working in banking for last couple years and eventually teamed up with the retiring financial planner. Business grew and he decided to keep working for fun and we grew the practice to a total of 10 employees. Making a very nice living now and helping lots of people. I'll be 48 this year and should be able to FIRE at 55 pretty comfortably.

Some of my path was luck, some was drive to get to a better place. I think I had a couple turning points as I look back... deciding to get my MBA was helpful but not necessary. I wanted to work in a professional environment and liked business and finance so finding that first lending job was key. Then it was networking, drive and decisiveness to make the right moves from there.

I had always enjoyed personal finance and recognized that there was a need in the world for more qualified planners. I called a recruiter who works in the banking and wealth management areas and asked what designation was seen as most valued and respected in the industry and she said the CFP was the way to go. I didn't want to sell products (calling friends and family to sell annuities and mutual funds) so I wasn't sure exactly what I would do with it but it seemed like a logical next step and if nothing else I'd learn more about how to retire early. It was luck to meet the financial planner when I did but it was because I was looking for someone like him to learn more about the industry and options to work in a non-selling environment. I've been working as a fee-only financial planner for over 8 years now and can't think of anything I'd rather do (except maybe retire).

I'm not exactly sure where the advice is in there but maybe something in that blathering mess will trigger something for you. If you have no idea where to start I think what I would do is take the science specialization off your resume as someone suggested, just listing your BS degree and find an industry that is somewhat interesting to you and has lots or room for opportunity and growth... and then I'd start looking around for entry level positions to start building your resume and career.

Best of luck to you!

 

[panacea]

Oh, and as far as "investment strategies to follow" I'd say don't get ahead of yourself. You're primary goal should be to find meaningful work and a way to increase your income at this point. In the meantime, keep your expenses low and live within your means. Don't buy a house- you're buying more expenses and maintenance and locking making it harder to leave for a good opportunity. Build up a good rainy day fund and don't buy anything you don't need. You can also fund Roth IRAs because you can treat it like a rainy day fund- you always have access to the contributions (not the earnings) without penalty.

 

[H2ODude]

Had somewhat of an analogous start. We married early (19) and I was all about getting into med school, which I did with a science degree (biology). Decided it was not for me so at 21 worked in grocery distribution warehouse while DW worked as a secretary (hey, it was ~42 years ago!).

I looked through the classifieds and concluded that there were few decent jobs for a bio degree, but those engineers were making twice what a pure science degree made. So we relocated to home state where DW supported me getting a masters in environmental, which had always been an interest. God Bless my advisor who talked me into spending the extra year or so to get the civil engineering bachelors (since I already had a lot of science and other credits).

This was early 70's, first wave of the needs for environmental civil with the passage of Clean Water Act (which paid for some of my ed). Retired 5 years ago but we were witnessing an aging out of that first crop as well as big new demands with infrastructure deterioration and new wave of regs now that we can measure stuff well into parts per billion. Don't get me started on how we can get our panties in a wad about something we liberally add to shampoos and soaps showing up in streams in ppb but it's ok produce it for consumer products. Never mind, off topic. Anyway....

Other poster mentioned water/wastewater utility operator. Easy to get into, can usually get OJT for certifications. Tech knowledge a big plus as most plants have very complex tech control. And guess what? You can't offshore water and wastewater treatment. Yeah, not an impressive occupation to pick up women/men with, but I could easily have retired at 60 on it alone. Admittedly also oversaved and got some inheritance that could have made it earlier....but I actually LIKED what I did until last few years since I was at a political level that changed. Good luck.

 

[Cobra9777]

...I've also taken some steps toward getting an MBA from a top 5 or 10 school (something my employer will not pay for). This is the most expensive route, so I was wondering what other career options were available...

Don't worry about top 5 or 10 ranking. Research smaller state schools with a good reputation among national employers. Far more cost effective, IMHO. I'll share my somewhat similar story, FWIW:

I had a fairly useless bachelor's degree in a fine arts field. Academia was the only real path to "normal" employment. After some graduate work in the same field, I decided that academia was not for me. I was able to land two business-related jobs that required a bachelor's degree in any field. I hated both jobs for various reasons, but discovered that I actually enjoyed business and finance, and was quite good at it.

At age 26, I went back to get an MBA, while still working at one of those jobs. At 28 (almost 29), I was being recruited alongside other 24 and 25 year-old MBAs. Recruiters liked my business experience and the fact that I worked full-time through school, and maintained a 4.0 GPA. I had multiple offers all over the country. Twenty-four years later, I retired at 52.

...Another thing: Instead of thinking "how can I increase my pay", try thinking "how can I increase what I am worth per hour?" An employer isn't motivated to pay people more, he is interested in getting someone who will improve his bottom line by doing something that adds to that bottom line. It's just an unfortunate (to him) byproduct that he may have to pay extra to get that person, but it is worth it. Be worth it...

Great advice from samclem. In my particular field, an MBA was required to get your foot in the door. But that's not true in many cases. After just a few years as a hiring manager, I learned that the degree and the school didn't mean anything after an employee's first day on the job. If you worked hard and directly contributed to the success of the organization on a consistent basis, then you were compensated accordingly. I did whatever was required to retain the real contributors. Those who just "showed up" and went through the motions got COL, no bonus, no stock. Wherever you end up, focus on building your value and the "real" pay will come.

 

[skynet]

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice! I'm really glad I found this forum. I'll have to do some serious thinking about my career before I pay for another degree or start investing, but I'm now optimistic about achieving my goal of early retirement.

 

[samclem]

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice! I'm really glad I found this forum. I'll have to do some serious thinking about my career before I pay for another degree or start investing, but I'm now optimistic about achieving my goal of early retirement.

skynet, Sorry, that's not how it works here. You can't end a topic that easily, we'll generally bang on for a few days or weeks more than would have been polite. It's part of the service.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice! I'm really glad I found this forum. I'll have to do some serious thinking about my career before I pay for another degree or start investing, but I'm now optimistic about achieving my goal of early retirement.

That's a good attitude and shows you have an open mind. A few first time posters have posted a question, not liked the opinions offered and just gone radio silent.

My nephew is about your age with NO college degree after years of minimum wage jobs, his DM helped him get an entry level state job delivering the mail internally. Six years later despite tuition assistance coming with his job and the chance to move up the job chain, he's still in the mailroom.

He made the comment to me it was boring, he had to be at work too early,yaya and that job wasn't really who he was. After a few seconds I said to him, if you don't prepare yourself for another path, it is who you are and it 's in your control if you want to be someone else...this exchange happened 4 years ago.This nephew also had a wonderful girlfriend who put herself thru school, got a good job and went to grad school at night. She told him, I love you but I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to educate himself and be my full partner. Broke his heart, his mother called her the B word, but I feel the girlfriend made the right choice.

I'll make the same comment to you, it's in your control and after 10 years it's way past time for you to do some serious thinking.

 

[samclem]

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice! I'm really glad I found this forum. I'll have to do some serious thinking about my career before I pay for another degree or start investing, but I'm now optimistic about achieving my goal of early retirement.

On a broader note: Your view of the "working world" has been from the "bottom of the pyramid" up to this point. You may find that your outlook changes after you click into a job/career/business that you know you'll be doing for awhile, something that's not just a short-term gig. You may find that you like it a lot, even if at first the job isn't very glamorous. The folks on this board are not a normal lot--we generally itched to end our careers early. That's not good or bad, but it's not something that is a high priority with most people (if it were, the evidence would be in a higher personal savings rate).
Some heretical comments: What I'm getting at is that you may be fixating on early retirement a little too soon. "Give work a chance.". You may come to find that you really like the challenges it brings and don't mind staying in the harness until "normal" retirement age. Or, you may find that, though the job doesn't "complete you," you have enough free time to pursue your outside interests so that overall you are happy with the situation and don't need to make the sacrifices required to retire at an early age. Or, like most here, you may immerse yourself in a job/career/business and decide that you'd like to jump clear as soon as it is feasible. In any case, getting higher compensation per hour will give you more options. If you stay in your present rut, you won't get to see if a job with a career track gives you more fulfillment and you won't have the resources to retire early.

 

[nash031]

So, even with a greatly shrinking military and lower recruiting goals they still have to resort to hiring these old guys? Sounds like something scary is happening out there

If the skillset is right, age doesn't really matter for the officer's corps. Besides, you'll have junior officers who are prior enlisted who start at O-1 in their 30s all the time. Some of them stick around for 30 and even 40 years total...

Jobs that require physical skills like SEALs, pilots, etc. have more limiting age restrictions. It doesn't make sense to have a blanket age restriction that would limit the pool of lawyers, doctors, IT professionals, etc. that the military can bring in.

 

[razztazz]

If the skillset is right, age doesn't really matter for the officer's corps. Besides, you'll have junior officers who are prior enlisted who start at O-1 in their 30s all the time. Some of them stick around for 30 and even 40 years total...

Jobs that require physical skills like SEALs, pilots, etc. have more limiting age restrictions. It doesn't make sense to have a blanket age restriction that would limit the pool of lawyers, doctors, IT professionals, etc. that the military can bring in.

Sure. I know all that. I was in for 20 years myself. Espescially with officers. I Saw all kinds. But the basic enlisted person's age being raised that high is not usual. Usually they do that when they are scraping the bottom of the barrel or during really big wars like WWII

 

[nash031]

Sure. I know all that. I was in for 20 years myself. Espescially with officers. I Saw all kinds. But the basic enlisted person's age being raised that high is not usual. Usually they do that when they are scraping the bottom of the barrel or during really big wars like WWII

Even in the enlisted corps, the rise of IT professionals has necessitated bringing people in at older ages. I have a Firecontrolman who came in in his 30s - not bottom barrel at all.

I think it's a good thing, honestly, as long as it's the right people. We shouldn't be turning away talent in the support ranks simply due to age.

 

[razztazz]

Even in the enlisted corps, the rise of IT professionals has necessitated bringing people in at older ages. I have a Firecontrolman who came in in his 30s - not bottom barrel at all.

I think it's a good thing, honestly, as long as it's the right people. We shouldn't be turning away talent in the support ranks simply due to age.

Not what the article was talking about. The uniquely qualifides have always been there. Everything is waiverable. Maybe the article was imprecise (heh heh. not the first time) but it addressed a general intake of older people. Not the uniquely qualified. That means they ain''t gettin' enough of what they want so they're expanding the pool and panning for gold and taking what they can get.
Probably NOT a bad idea as 35 hasn't been "old" in quite some time.

 

[nash031]

Not what the article was talking about. The uniquely qualifides have always been there. Everything is waiverable. Maybe the article was imprecise (heh heh. not the first time) but it addressed a general intake of older people. Not the uniquely qualified. That means they ain''t gettin' enough of what they want so they're expanding the pool and panning for gold and taking what they can get.

Probably NOT a bad idea as 35 hasn't been "old" in quite some time.

I can only speak for a very small segment of the Navy, but I don't see a general in flux of lesser qualifiers. Heck, we are downsizing quite a bit...

Now, when he traditional pension goes away for new entrants in the near future, I think that's going to be a game changer.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Now, when he traditional pension goes away for new entrants in the near future, I think that's going to be a game changer.

Boy, you aren't kidding. It was the pension (and Tricare) that kept me around as long as it did. *IF* it wasn't available to me at the time, I would have bailed much, MUCH earlier. I certainly retired at a good time.

Nonetheless, even as great as the pension and Tricare is, I cannot recommend the military for anyone who isn't VERY interested in it. A lot of folks (especially the Air Force types) want to look at it as a job...but it IS NOT...it is a LIFESTYLE and a lifestyle in which has facets that you CANNOT control. I did my absolute best to approach it only as a job, but at times that was impossible to do. So..even though the pot of gold at the rainbow has been great, it came at a cost.

 

[samclem]

Now, when he traditional pension goes away for new entrants in the near future, I think that's going to be a game changer.

Oh, yeah. I don't know if accessions will change much (it's not a big motivator for getting people to sign up), but detailers/assignments folks will have a much harder time filling undesirable jobs. At present, they get a lot of fills for "bad" jobs using people at the 15+year point who just can't afford to say "no" and give up 100% of their pension. ("Sorry, I know you just came from an unaccompanied tour in Korea, but there's another job that will be great for you in Turkey, or a de-mining job in Iraq. I might be able to help you with a follow-on assignment after that, but no promises.")

 

[kgtest]

If you are at all interested in computers and computer programming, then I think that a job in the hi tech industry could be a very viable option. There is age discrimination in the tech industry for sure (as there is with most industries, I expect) but you are still well within the prime hiring range.

Most people think of being a developer/programmer as the way to go here, but there are actually several other options within the same field that offer good salaries, even for rookies. Particularly interesting could be a QA (quality assurance - tester) or UI Designer job. QA specifically doesn't require a lot of computer background (though many do) but you need to have some experience in programming to get your first job.

There are plenty of free on-line courses that can get you started, but I think a certificate from a local community college would be very useful on the resume as well.

Good advice. I got a job as a QA and man am I glad I did. Sure its a desk job, but I will be done at 50 in 15 more years.

 

[Milton]

To review:

• You have a history of low-paying jobs;
• You currently have little savings;
• You want to live in a big city;
• You want work-life balance;
• You want to have children;
• You want to retire early.

Frankly, a want-your-cake-and-eat-it approach will get you nowhere. You need to prioritize and decide what sacrifices you are prepared to make to achieve your real goals.

If ER is really important to you, you'll probably have to knuckle down and spend the next 20 years working long hours, probably at some sort of job you don't particularly like, while living below your means (possibly in a small town) and aggressively investing your savings.

Raising children is very expensive. If that experience is really important to you, you can probably forget about ER.

Your problem now is that you are 10 years out of college without any meaningful steady work history in any professional field. Your work history consists of entry level jobs.

+1. While an MBA may provide some useful skills, I doubt that it (or any other degree) is going to be of much use in overcoming the above problem. When it comes to high-paying, non-entry level positions, virtually all employers will want to see a decent track record.

I cannot recommend the military for anyone who isn't VERY interested in it.

Totally agree.

 

[Maenad]

If you don't want to go back to school:

50 Jobs over $50,000 – Without a Degree (Part 1)

50 Jobs over $50,000 – Without a Degree (Part 2)

Profoundly Disconnected

 

[Markola]

To review:

• You have a history of low-paying jobs;
• You currently have little savings;
• You want to live in a big city;
• You want work-life balance;
• You want to have children;
• You want to retire early.

Frankly, a want-your-cake-and-eat-it approach will get you nowhere. You need to prioritize and decide what sacrifices you are prepared to make to achieve your real goals.

If ER is really important to you, you'll probably have to knuckle down and spend the next 20 years working long hours, probably at some sort of job you don't particularly like, while living below your means (possibly in a small town) and aggressively investing your savings.

Raising children is very expensive. If that experience is really important to you, you can probably forget about ER.

+1. While an MBA may provide some useful skills, I doubt that it (or any other degree) is going to be of much use in overcoming the above problem. When it comes to high-paying, non-entry level positions, virtually all employers will want to see a decent track record.

Totally agree.

+1. It seems the missing ingredient here is not another fancy degree but a willingness to make a commitment to something and dig in. The OP learned the lesson that "Doing what you love" is not lucrative. Welcome to most everyone's experience! How about now implementing the lesson, like most of the rest of us, and "Do something that seems good enough"? There are certainly ample ideas above. Present a positive attitude, even if you fake it at first, LBYM, take on extra work, move up periodically, retire early. It's really pretty straightforward and you might learn to like it. I've noticed that my friends with all kinds of degrees, including the humanities like me, and who kinda figured that common formula out by our late 20s and leaned into it are, two decades later, enjoying stable families, influence and control over our time at work, lucrative career options, own our homes, have good health and medical care and can see a path to retirement. Others, who just couldn't commit (though terrific people), just never got the same life traction, are still single, and still just getting by. Sorry for the tough love but that's what some young people need to hear before the general career and mate selection trajectory windows close, and probably what's to be expected when one asks a board full of millionaires who worked hard for decades for what they have, "So, how can I retire early?" before one has first found the thing to retire from. Good luck.

 

[Sunset]

With a name like SkyNet you would think you are a keen computer person, but maybe you are simply a user computer person, or worse, just a movie watcher.

Perhaps you should look at the trades, plumber, electrician.
You take some training, do an apprenticeship, then work for a business, later you start your own business on the side, then hire some workers as the business grows big..

Point is: figure out what pays well, and do that job. So what if you don't love/like it, that is why it's called work and not vacation

 

[Markola]

I read that there's a shortage of welders and some good ones are making 6 figures. Seems kind of fun to me.