Article: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

[meierlde]

Ten years ago, geology was the coming profession, and now much less important. Do we have enough IT people? Will lobbyists become the darlings of industry? Will the teachers who were lured to the profession by solid tenure and pension plans continue to be part of the stable middle class?

Actually geology is still a coming profession in the US afterall someone has to decide where to drill all the wells. Geology crashed in the later 1980s as the price of oil crashed and oil companies engaged in massive layoff waves. It started back about 10 years ago as major oil companies looked at the ages of their earth science work force and discovered that because a lot were hired during the 1970s boom, they were approaching retirement. For a fairly long time opportunities for geologists were better for folks from places like Angola, Kazahstan, or other oil producing countries than the US. However with the current boom in places like Texas and North Dakota, there is high demand. Of course it is yet better to go into petroleum engineering where the average starting salary is in the 100k+ range.

 

[Sarah in SC]

And speaking of Xers... At age 50, I suffer a generation-identification crisis. Half of the world wants to call me an Xer. Half a boomer. I feel generation-less.

I'll let you hang with us, Joe. My DH is 50 this year, and he's definitely no [-]boomer[/-] geezer. You can def be in the cool club with us Xers. But fair warning, we do like to party!

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

Most plumbers make nowhere near 200k.

It's good money, but you only reach that stratosphere if you own your own business and are very successful, or work max OT in a union position with frequent double-time hours. Hard to do either.

Also depends on the area of the country. In the south, non-unionized, it will be less. You will probably also want to get a 2 yr degree from community college. In union areas, you'll have an apprenticeship which takes a good degree of time.

Look for yourself from a Chicago area union. If you do the math, the journeyman (after apprenticeship) is somewhere in the $80ks, IF they get full hours. No vacation. At least the contractors pay pension and medical. But you have to work to at least 60 to get a decent pension.
Chicago Journeymen Plumbers Union: 2012 Chicago Wage Pkg.

I believe you. I read somewhere in this thread that a plumber made 200k....Wow. And I like fixing stuff.

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

There are Xers that have good pensions. But it is getting rare.

There are a lot of Xers who started with pension promises, but saw the plans reduced, converted or eliminated.

My original megacorp converted, so I fall into the "do my own pension" camp. I only had a few years, so it didn't matter. I'm actually kind of glad about that too.

And speaking of Xers... At age 50, I suffer a generation-identification crisi. Half of the world wants to call me an Xer. Half a boomer. I feel generation-less.

Gen X is considered 1961-1981 or 1965 to 1981. Do you want to be an Xer with a mullet or an ex-break dancer ? Lol.

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

I'll let you hang with us, Joe. My DH is 50 this year, and he's definitely no [-]boomer[/-] geezer. You can def be in the cool club with us Xers. But fair warning, we do like to party!

If he wants in , he's gotta pass our music test though.

 

[JoeWras]

If he wants in , he's gotta pass our music test though.

Uhhhhhhh, uhhhh, I have been known to cut a rug every now and then. Fond memories of attempting to break dance one time in college.

Mullet? Mullet?? NO! Please read the thread on bald guys...

Edit: what does it mean if I know who Kurt Cobain was? Does that tip me to Xer? Seems like most [-]gee[/-]boomers don't know him.

 

[Mulligan]

Gen X is considered 1961-1981 or 1965 to 1981. Do you want to be an Xer with a mullet or an ex-break dancer ? Lol.

I have not been a real student of generational terminology. Being born in 1964, however, I knew I was at the very butt end of the "baby boomers". I never felt that was applicable to me especially since my father wasn't even a teenager yet at wars end. So I think I will change and become Gen X now that you have given me the 1961-81 window.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Join us, one and all, you bridge from boomers to X-ers.
But you have to watch every one of John Hughes' movies as well as passing the music test from Acorn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hughes_(filmmaker)

 

[JoeWras]

Join us, one and all, you bridge from boomers to X-ers.
But you have to watch every one of John Hughes' movies as well as passing the music test from Acorn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hughes_(filmmaker)

John Hughes? I pass that test. But I'm a cheater. Growing up in Chicago it is hard to not have seen every John Hughes movie.

P.S. Shame that both Hughes and John Candy R.I.P. Such a shame.

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

Um, pssst...low cost of living around these parts might just play a role?

And those mysterious things you mentioned earlier? Pensions? Never heard of them and I don't personally know anyone, my parents included, who qualified for one large enough to get to choose the crunchy kind of cat food. You must be pretty special to be getting that pension, for sure. I'm going to retire by my wits and luck, thanks, and not from a pension or diploma.

You live in a different world, man.

Yes, I live in la-la land called California where the cost of living is krazy . People making less than 100k here pay $1.5-3k a month just to live in an apartment. Groceries can cost hundreds a month. Gas is $4.20+ per gallon. A land line phone is $40 per month AT&T? Pensions still exist . There's still people getting those. Government + mega corp.

 

[ronocnikral]

Actually geology is still a coming profession in the US afterall someone has to decide where to drill all the wells. Geology crashed in the later 1980s as the price of oil crashed and oil companies engaged in massive layoff waves. It started back about 10 years ago as major oil companies looked at the ages of their earth science work force and discovered that because a lot were hired during the 1970s boom, they were approaching retirement. For a fairly long time opportunities for geologists were better for folks from places like Angola, Kazahstan, or other oil producing countries than the US. However with the current boom in places like Texas and North Dakota, there is high demand. Of course it is yet better to go into petroleum engineering where the average starting salary is in the 100k+ range.

Very few petroleum engineers start at $100k+. Last year, the school I attended (colorado school of mines) had an avg starting salary for pet eng of $85k, with a high of $104.5k (could be a PhD student) and a low around $50k (probably working for someone like schlumberger). I will point out 2 things, 1) many pet eng graduates are still looking for jobs, something that never happened when I graduated and 2) your salary grows quickly, but it's dependent on oil price (which I don't worry about). For instance, I've "maxed out" my social security contributions every year I have ever worked except for my first year (which I only worked half of the year). Most of the Bakken operations are housed in Denver, which isn't a bad place to live.

 

[EvrClrx311]

I'm on the border, not sure which I fit in with a birth year of 1982, but for those around my age there seems to be a pretty large divide.

I'm an engineer, and have a lot of engineer friends. We all have government funded jobs and the income and job security seems solid. Even the recent fiscal cliff didn't seem to do anything in our world. We're very fortunate for that. Most are family oriented, save a lot and have struggled with the recent housing burst, but are moving back above water. I'd say the majority of my friends in this group think about and are planning for FIRE.

On the other side are those friends of mine who got their degrees in a number of other fields... English, Philosophy, Poli Sci, Finance, etc...

The vast majority of them are unemployed or living paycheck to paycheck. Many became teachers and complain about the standardization of education. Others took whatever job they could find that has nothing to do with their degree (example: working sales at Best B, or as a bartender/waitress with a college degree). Most want out of the profession. Most either rent a really small apartment or are living with their parents. Some are married, and doing a little better with both parents working... pushing off having kids because they can't afford them. A small percentage seem to be saving up for a house, but most seem to spend what they make... like the average 25-30 year old. This group is likely going to struggle financially for a long time, and the current economy is going to make it difficult for them to pull themselves up.

I'm sure this kind of divide was always there, but it would seem to be magnified today. I think partly because of all the doom and gloom in the news. I've actually heard friends tell me that saving for retirement is foolish because money will be worthless down the road. Others that I've met through friends of friends are stunned when they find out I have a house and two kids. They just cannot fathom someone being able to support that in today's economy. General theme is that they seem to have given up on trying to get ahead, and instead are living in the now.

There is definitely a large group of educated professionals in these generations who are doing ok. Either by chance or choice, they landed in the fields that will continue to grow and have lots of jobs and money available. Technology, computers, medical.

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

I have not been a real student of generational terminology. Being born in 1964, however, I knew I was at the very butt end of the "baby boomers". I never felt that was applicable to me especially since my father wasn't even a teenager yet at wars end. So I think I will change and become Gen X now that you have given me the 1961-81 window.

Lol. I didn't even know what Gen X was until just a few years ago when I stumbled upon a site talking about this generation. Then I realized I was a part of this Gen being born in the early 70s, liking Nirvana/NWA, separated Boomer parents, and coming home from school to an empty house.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Yes, I live in la-la land called California where the cost of living is krazy . People making less than 100k here pay $1.5-3k a month just to live in an apartment. Groceries can cost hundreds a month. Gas is $4.20+ per gallon. A land line phone is $40 per month AT&T? Pensions still exist . There's still people getting those. Government + mega corp.

Yeah, we got none of that. I think besides the hospital, there are a few military folks in town, and that Boeing Co. just moved to town, but we don't really have megacorps, anyway. The 2600 ft house next door rents for $900 a month, 4 acres and a crab dock on the creek. And for the rest: gas is $3.40, who has a landline?, groceries? I dunno, we buy beer, mostly.

There is no way in the hottest corner of hell that I would work for a big company, so there's no way I'd be getting a pension. I watched Office Space, I know all about that stuff. That pension has a price too high for me to imagine.

 

[ziggy29]

There is no way in the hottest corner of hell that I would work for a big company, so there's no way I'd be getting a pension. I watched Office Space, I know all about that stuff. That pension has a price too high for me to imagine.

Been there, done that, never again.

No way I ever work for a large company again, particularly one that is publicly traded.

 

[JoeWras]

Been there, done that, never again.

No way I ever work for a large company again, particularly one that is publicly traded.

Office Space: "Is it good for the Company?"
Megacorp: "To enhance shareholder value, we are <insert something making employee life more difficult>"

 

[ronocnikral]

Office Space: "Is it good for the Company?"
Megacorp: "To enhance shareholder value, we are <insert something making employee life more difficult>"

I actually have worked for a large company ("top 5") and now work for a small privately owned company. I prefer megacorp.

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

Been there, done that, never again.

No way I ever work for a large company again, particularly one that is publicly traded.

I consider myself lucky. Not to sound too optimistic , but my mega corp will be in the Bay Area long after I'm dead or that of my grand children. I'm pretty sure my pension will be safe. Knock on ply wood.

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

I'm on the border, not sure which I fit in with a birth year of 1982, but for those around my age there seems to be a pretty large divide.

I'm an engineer, and have a lot of engineer friends. We all have government funded jobs and the income and job security seems solid. Even the recent fiscal cliff didn't seem to do anything in our world. We're very fortunate for that. Most are family oriented, save a lot and have struggled with the recent housing burst, but are moving back above water. I'd say the majority of my friends in this group think about and are planning for FIRE.

On the other side are those friends of mine who got their degrees in a number of other fields... English, Philosophy, Poli Sci, Finance, etc...

The vast majority of them are unemployed or living paycheck to paycheck. Many became teachers and complain about the standardization of education. Others took whatever job they could find that has nothing to do with their degree (example: working sales at Best B, or as a bartender/waitress with a college degree). Most want out of the profession. Most either rent a really small apartment or are living with their parents. Some are married, and doing a little better with both parents working... pushing off having kids because they can't afford them. A small percentage seem to be saving up for a house, but most seem to spend what they make... like the average 25-30 year old. This group is likely going to struggle financially for a long time, and the current economy is going to make it difficult for them to pull themselves up.

I'm sure this kind of divide was always there, but it would seem to be magnified today. I think partly because of all the doom and gloom in the news. I've actually heard friends tell me that saving for retirement is foolish because money will be worthless down the road. Others that I've met through friends of friends are stunned when they find out I have a house and two kids. They just cannot fathom someone being able to support that in today's economy. General theme is that they seem to have given up on trying to get ahead, and instead are living in the now.

There is definitely a large group of educated professionals in these generations who are doing ok. Either by chance or choice, they landed in the fields that will continue to grow and have lots of jobs and money available. Technology, computers, medical.

Good choice in your career. We made wise choices when we were the same age.

 

[ziggy29]

I actually have worked for a large company ("top 5") and now work for a small privately owned company. I prefer megacorp.

Privately held companies run the gamut. Some are really good to work for. Some are awful to work for. But the thing is, when you are a privately held company, if the owner wants to take care of his/her employees, they can without Wall Street and its major shareholders screaming bloody murder for leaving profits on the table.

Executives of public companies have no such real power. Shareholders will oust them if they don't screw their employees because the market will allow it. The real point, IMO, is that NO public company can come close to being as generous and considerate to their workforce as SOME private companies are. Wall Street won't allow it.

(Also, these private companies can do crazy things like manage and invest for the LONG run, not just what makes the next quarter look better at the possible expense of long-term growth prospects of the company.)

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

My younger brother , Gen Y/X cusp guy , never graduated from college, but has a job paying barely $45k per year in the Bay Area . He barely has money to "enjoy" after paying off his monthly STUDIO apartment excluding his other bills. Why? Didn't go to college when I was pushing him too along with my parents. I do feel happy that he has finally woken up to funding his retirement (after pushing him for years)and he's lucky that he too has a small pension in a more volatile company vs mines. Still, if he would have gotten that degree in the late 1990s....

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

Speaking of Gen Y:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/09/news/economy/millennial-job-hopping/

 

[haha]

Very few petroleum engineers start at $100k+. Last year, the school I attended (colorado school of mines) had an avg starting salary for pet eng of $85k, with a high of $104.5k (could be a PhD student) and a low around $50k (probably working for someone like schlumberger). I will point out 2 things, 1) many pet eng graduates are still looking for jobs, something that never happened when I graduated and 2) your salary grows quickly, but it's dependent on oil price (which I don't worry about). For instance, I've "maxed out" my social security contributions every year I have ever worked except for my first year (which I only worked half of the year). Most of the Bakken operations are housed in Denver, which isn't a bad place to live.

Is a petroleum engineer the guy who studies reservoir rocks and traps and such and tries to estimate flow rates and eventual recoveries and current reserves?

If this is it, is sounds really interesting.

Ha

 

[meierlde]

Is a petroleum engineer the guy who studies reservoir rocks and traps and such and tries to estimate flow rates and eventual recoveries and current reserves?

If this is it, is sounds really interesting.

Ha

That and figures out how to get the maximum recovery out of a field, things like steam and waterflooding and the like. Today would be involved in figuring out how to frac a reservior. There is another subbranch that figures out how to case and line a well essentially how to drill it safely. Others are involved with top side infrastructure, such as tanks, pumps pipelines, various forms of oil/water/gas separators and the like.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Privately held companies run the gamut. Some are really good to work for. Some are awful to work for. But the thing is, when you are a privately held company, if the owner wants to take care of his/her employees, they can without Wall Street and its major shareholders screaming bloody murder for leaving profits on the table.

Executives of public companies have no such real power. Shareholders will oust them if they don't screw their employees because the market will allow it. The real point, IMO, is that NO public company can come close to being as generous and considerate to their workforce as SOME private companies are. Wall Street won't allow it.

(Also, these private companies can do crazy things like manage and invest for the LONG run, not just what makes the next quarter look better at the possible expense of long-term growth prospects of the company.)

+1 on this.

I w*rk for a large privately held company. And although I can't wait to retire I must admit the company treats employees reasonably well. Better than they could if we were public. Of course, if the privately held company holds large debt then they still have to answer to those bankers even if they are not being traded on Wall Street. So it can vary even for private joints just as you indicated.