College Spending Money

[OldShooter]

I would encourage this anyway.

I know what I'm good at. I know what I suck at. I know what I can do for 8-14 hours a day. And I know what I won't do for 8-14 hours a day.

There are many, many careers where I don't care what the salary is -- I don't want to do that five days a week.

There are other careers where as long as I had a roof over my head and didn't starve, I'd be OK with that.

The good thing about university is that it doesn't matter where the student starts -- community college English 101 is (usually) just as good as Ivy League English 101. Bootstrapping university is STILL possible, even though working-through is not.

What was your degree(s) field?

 

[Aerides]

I know what I'm good at. I know what I suck at. I know what I can do for 8-14 hours a day. And I know what I won't do for 8-14 hours a day.

At 18 I had no clue on any of those. Took a very long time to know myself that well.

Back to the OP (and it is quite a long way back....) give her some pocket money, figure out a good amount in her senior year of HS.

 

[ScoopKona]

What was your degree(s) field?

In order: Writing, brewing, property management, cooking and now agriculture.

I hold degrees in writing, political science and economics. The sad thing is that I went to a school with an outstanding agricultural program. I could have skipped ahead by a great deal just taking farming classes. Once things settle down to a dull-roar here, I plan on doing just that.

 

[ivinsfan]

You may want to take another look at ScoopKona’s post. Large amount of debt is not the norm elsewhere. The way education is funded in the US is a disgrace and corrupt.

I've always found the system in the UK curious...as in if you don't pass your A levels things get very complicated higher education wise. Very different.
then the US model. Is it a better model IDK.


Our unis are run as businesses instead of schools so yes the bloat and the corruption is very real.

 

[Phroig]

At a minimum, we need transparency on how much college will cost, what a student's job prospects are when he/she finishes, and how much he/she can expect to make. Everybody pushes the narrative that a college education will pay off, which motivates students and their families to take on significant debt.
A second point: I don't know about your hometowns, but it's impossible to find an electrician or a plumber here. Even apprentices make good money. Some students who are clearly unlikely to succeed in college should be encouraged to go to trade schools

 

[braumeister]

At a minimum, we need transparency on how much college will cost, what a student's job prospects are when he/she finishes, and how much he/she can expect to make. Everybody pushes the narrative that a college education will pay off, which motivates students and their families to take on significant debt.

There is some data available. See this for example:

COLLEGE SALARY REPORT

 

[Phroig]

There is some data available. See this for example:



COLLEGE SALARY REPORT

Yes, I know. I wonder how many high school seniors and their families have this information, and how many high school counselors talk about these issues.

 

[ScoopKona]

At a minimum, we need transparency on how much college will cost, what a student's job prospects are when he/she finishes, and how much he/she can expect to make. Everybody pushes the narrative that a college education will pay off, which motivates students and their families to take on significant debt.

How much it will cost is already very transparent. I can hop on one of my almae matres' websites and find that answer to the penny.

Job prospects? There are no guarantees -- even for STEM majors. Rand Paul, for instance, holds a legitimate PhD. But he is incapable of board certification. So he's never going to work on anyone's eyeballs. If it wasn't for his father setting him up in the family business, he would probably be working for Luxottica, selling glasses.

And how much the graduate will make is also totally up for grabs. We can point out averages -- the average degree holder will make $X more over a lifetime. But some will do much better and others much worse.

An education is not job training. Done right, it is an insurance policy against a boring life.

 

[braumeister]

Yes, I know. I wonder how many high school seniors and their families have this information, and how many high school counselors talk about these issues.

No idea but the college I went to has a link to it in the admissions section of their website.

 

[ivinsfan]

At a minimum, we need transparency on how much college will cost, what a student's job prospects are when he/she finishes, and how much he/she can expect to make. Everybody pushes the narrative that a college education will pay off, which motivates students and their families to take on significant debt.
A second point: I don't know about your hometowns, but it's impossible to find an electrician or a plumber here. Even apprentices make good money. Some students who are clearly unlikely to succeed in college should be encouraged to go to trade schools

Well your first mistake is assuming that students unlikely to succeed in college should go to trade school. Like trade school is easy and can't be a first choice for bright kids. Unfortunately this is what present society tells us. It's a huge part of the trades person shortage.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

There is some data available. See this for example:

COLLEGE SALARY REPORT

Also College Scorecard - https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/ and Occupational Outlook Handbook - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/.

 

[SnowballCamper]

I think this is very insightful...

An education is not job training. Done right, it is an insurance policy against a boring life.

 

[38Chevy454]

Well your first mistake is assuming that students unlikely to succeed in college should go to trade school. Like trade school is easy and can't be a first choice for bright kids. Unfortunately this is what present society tells us. It's a huge part of the trades person shortage.

X2, a good trades person can make as much as many college grads. Plenty of 6-figure electricians and plumbers for example. It is called skilled trades for a good reason.

Most all skilled trades have apprenticeships where a student makes money while learning their trade. Come out with no debt, plus the money made while in school.

 

[RobbieB]

An education is not job training. Done right, it is an insurance policy against a boring life.

Very true. Trade schools are for job training.

The purpose of education is not to learn stuff, the purpose is to teach you to think.

 

[ScoopKona]

Very true. Trade schools are for job training.

The purpose of education is not to learn stuff, the purpose is to teach you to think.

Malcolm Forbes (one of the last truly-interesting Americans, and no dummy) said this: The purpose of an education is to replace an empty mind with an open one.

And while I disagree that the average college-bound high-school senior's mind is "empty," it still mostly rings true.

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah, empty minds lack tools and closed minds cannot think.

 

[jollystomper]

The good thing about university is that it doesn't matter where the student starts -- community college English 101 is (usually) just as good as Ivy League English 101.

I would disagree. First, almost everyone accepted to most Ivy League and other top tier schools) schools has likely already taken English classes at the "community college English 101" level. Not a knock on community college courses, but the expectation for the student is different than at top schools.

At the non-Ivy League schools I was accepted at, my AP scores would have already given me college credit for the school's introductory English class. Not at the Ivy League schools I got into. I think also the volume of reading and writing is much greater, but since I was a math and computer science major it may have just seemed that way .

The interesting thing is the English (and other) writings in college were a boom to my tech career. Early in my career I started being lauded for the reports and documents I wrote as being "clear" and "understandable". Eventually I ended up getting articles, presentations, and white papers published, and requested to review and edit many others, much of that due to the writing and analysis I learned in my college English courses.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Rand Paul, for instance, holds a legitimate PhD. .

Paul has a professional degree, an M.D.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Paul has a professional degree, an M.D.

Per Wikipedia, "Paul attended Baylor University and is a graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine. Paul was a practicing medical doctor (ophthalmology) in Bowling Green, Kentucky from 1993 until his election to the United States Senate in 2010."

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Per Wikipedia, "Paul attended Baylor University and is a graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine. Paul was a practicing medical doctor (ophthalmology) in Bowling Green, Kentucky from 1993 until his election to the United States Senate in 2010."

Uhh, yup! Were you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Later on on that page:

Paul left Baylor without completing his baccalaureate degree,[18] when he was accepted into his father's alma mater, the Duke University School of Medicine, which, at the time, did not require an undergraduate degree for admission to its graduate school. He earned an M.D. degree in 1988 and completed his residency in 1993.[20]

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Uhh, yup! Were you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Later on on that page:

I'm agreeing with you, and adding to what you said. I didn't understand the other comment either which was "Rand Paul, for instance, holds a legitimate PhD. But he is incapable of board certification. So he's never going to work on anyone's eyeballs. If it wasn't for his father setting him up in the family business, he would probably be working for Luxottica, selling glasses."


Also from Wikipedia, "In 1995, Paul was certified to practice by the American Board of Ophthalmology (ABO)."

 

[ScoopKona]

I would disagree. First, almost everyone accepted to most Ivy League and other top tier schools) schools has likely already taken English classes at the "community college English 101" level. Not a knock on community college courses, but the expectation for the student is different than at top schools.

Perhaps back in the day.

The bright students I come across these days are spring-boarding from an AA "on the cheap" to better and better schools. Otherwise, they are saddled with crushing debt. (Or their parents can pay the way. I don't begrudge the rich kids their societal advantage. But I also recognize that they're not necessarily the most-deserving an the elite university education.)

In some ways, the European system of sorting everyone after secondary school makes sense. But it utterly fails the misfits and late bloomers. Our system once did fine with all of the above -- academic go-getters, misfits and late bloomers.

But lately, it's mostly for three sorts of students -- the wealthy, the very wealthy, and those willing to take on a soul-crushing amount of debt to try to springboard up the financial pyramid.

 

[ScoopKona]

Also from Wikipedia, "In 1995, Paul was certified to practice by the American Board of Ophthalmology (ABO)."

Paul was last certified by the National Board of Ophthalmologists which was run by Paul, his wife, and his father in law.

Ron Paul set him up in the family political business. As an opthamologist, he was a fine politician.

I wouldn't want him prodding at my peepers. That's for sure. I also think it's ridiculous that he argues with physicians who don't have their own certification board certifying them, and instead go with national certification.

In other news, I have set up the ScoopKona Pilots Certification Board. Care to go flying with me? I have never had a lesson. ;-)

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Paul was last certified by the National Board of Ophthalmologists which was run by Paul, his wife, and his father in law.

Ron Paul set him up in the family political business. As an opthamologist, he was a fine politician.

I wouldn't want him prodding at my peepers. That's for sure. I also think it's ridiculous that he argues with physicians who don't have their own certification board certifying them, and instead go with national certification.

In other news, I have set up the ScoopKona Pilots Certification Board. Care to go flying with me? I have never had a lesson. ;-)

Rand Paul's background is laid out on Wikipedia. He has a valid medical license and was board certified. He specialized in cataract and glaucoma surgeries, LASIK procedures, and corneal transplants. He also tried to set up a competing board that didn't catch on. Seems pretty straightforward. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul. I am not clear why you are making posts about his background that don't seem to mesh with published facts.

 

[ivinsfan]

Perhaps back in the day.

The bright students I come across these days are spring-boarding from an AA "on the cheap" to better and better schools. Otherwise, they are saddled with crushing debt. (Or their parents can pay the way. I don't begrudge the rich kids their societal advantage. But I also recognize that they're not necessarily the most-deserving an the elite university education.)

In some ways, the European system of sorting everyone after secondary school makes sense. But it utterly fails the misfits and late bloomers. Our system once did fine with all of the above -- academic go-getters, misfits and late bloomers.

But lately, it's mostly for three sorts of students -- the wealthy, the very wealthy, and those willing to take on a soul-crushing amount of debt to try to springboard up the financial pyramid.

This isn't true ....in our state you can go free to any post secondary school your last 2 years of high school if you meet grades requirement. We have excellent CC at low cost and many programs in place to assist low and middle income families. Some middle class kids have parents and grandparents that actually want to give them assistance so they can thrive as adults.



But don't let me interrupt you.